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Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Old Aug 25th 2021, 6:18 am
  #106  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

I think the rakyat is vastly more concerned with the "invasion" of an estimated 3 million Bangla, Indonesian, and Philippino workers than the the (perhaps) 50K MM2H that somehow are ratcheting up prices. [There too the government uses these individuals as whipping boys...sometimes quite literally rattan-cane whipping boys...exploting them, then deporting them...usually just before pay-day].

As for housing the "mandatory floor" on home prices was supposed to deal with that...but from my reading there's a tremendous "overhang" in unsold and unrented units everywhere and that's mainly at the middle to low end below the floor. Groceries, and other services- usually those who live a long time in a country start looking for bargains and that moderates the price inflation. Short-term tourists are notorious for overpaying for goods and services (i.e getting "scalped" and going to the "tourist trap"). That's why I discounted the amount that a MM2H would pay/month vs. a short-term tourist. But yeah, foreign money going into the economy will create price pressure...it also goes into the pockets of those providing those services/goods, creates employment, etc. Those folks, too, have more money, buy more goods (which if there is lag in production) causes inflationary price creep. Still those folks ARE able to buy more goods. That's why the prices go up.

Yeah these may be "concerns" but they are...as you admit, largely unfounded and sadly are being promoted by "button pushing" politicians. It's why they really had to reach deep to find even a few cases of (White) westerners that misbehaved and then (quite prejudicially implied that these folks were MM2H holders). They weren't, except in one domestic violence case. In one case it was someone that would fall into the "High Asset Individual" that the authors own Sovereign Citizenship firm caters to. Pathetic. The only case of murder of an Asian expat I know of wasn't mentioned.....the half-brother of the President of North Korea. I think he was on MM2H...but maybe it was a High Talent or some other Investment Visa.

Yeah, maybe the 35,000 Fixed Deposits (and any opportunity cost to lost new applicants) is a drop in the bucket. But if a company or event brought in 35,000 tourists they'd be crowing. They'd be through the roof if they had an event promotion group (MICE) bring in 15,000/day for various conferences.
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Old Aug 25th 2021, 6:50 am
  #107  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Hi RA..

of course NONE of the assertions (increase in housing costs/Chinese invasions etc.. ) are facts or rationale base.. but then political push buttons seldom are .. problem is they are potent and deliver the intended result..and energize the 'common denomitor' (how friggin elitist of me) dont mind the long term consequences ... we (Americans) invented the 'spin' (I think)...now we eat the crow .. If you really buying the advise MY pols are getting .. i have some FL swampland to sell you..
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Old Aug 25th 2021, 8:43 am
  #108  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

In Sabah, the government tolerates hundreds of water houses attached to Gaya island. Gaya island is a tourist location with several lux hotels and very expensive residence across from it. Even police don't go there. I wonder if there is any sewer there. The water around is filled with floating trash which is being cleaned eventually by hotels I guess.
They tolerate that, but not foreigners.
As I already said earlier, the US lost billions $$ on Muslim ban. The government didn't care. The same is here- they don't care about economic impact.
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Old Aug 25th 2021, 9:05 am
  #109  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by ssoomro View Post
Finally, trust is also a complicated matter.. do we trust Germany only a few decades after two great wars ... I think i lost my faith in MM2H program the day when they locked us out of the country with no recourse at the start of the pandemic ..
Germany changed and trust was earned.
Malaysia just changed in the direction detracting investment. When this changes, perhaps foreigners will come to live here again... But maybe they will not be eager to invest in buying properties...
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Old Aug 26th 2021, 1:23 am
  #110  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by ssoomro View Post
Finally .. back to Hull!!!... Hell NO I WONT GO .. i am from Sunny Florida .. land of weirdos and alligators.... it will take and act of God (or some black ops covert action) to land me in Hull....(with apologies to fine folks of Hull) .... Peace
Indeed, it is like going back to Germany in 1934.
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Old Aug 26th 2021, 7:25 am
  #111  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Immigration to handle MM2H applications from October
I think we knew this already, but it's a new article published today. No signs of a re-think going on.
PETALING JAYA: New applications for the Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme will be handled by the Immigration Department from October onwards.The Tourism, Arts and Culture Ministry (Motac) said this followed the Home Ministry’s announcement during a press conference on MM2H on Aug 11.

“As all the processes related to legality and laws have been sorted out, all new applications will be processed and handled by the Immigration Department from October 2021.

“During this transition period, Motac, through the MM2H Centre, will handle matters related to existing participants until Sept 15.

“After that, all matters related to existing application processing and logistics services will be taken over completely by Immigration,” it said in a statement Thursday (Aug 26).

It said those who need more information could log on to the Immigration website at https://www.imi.gov.my/ or contact them at 03-8880 1555 / 1556.

Motac noted that it fully supported the continuation of the MM2H programme so that it contributed to the country's economy as well as promoted Malaysia on the international stage.

“We will continue to play a role in promoting the MM2H programme through Tourism Malaysia's involvement in introducing Malaysia as a long-term stay destination, especially for retirees and high-income personalities,” it added.
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Old Aug 26th 2021, 8:31 am
  #112  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by Epicurious View Post
Immigration to handle MM2H applications from October
I think we knew this already, but it's a new article published today. No signs of a re-think going on.
Thank you for the above link.
It said those who need more information could log on to the Immigration website at https://www.imi.gov.my/
But is immigration site updated? It looks like the same as it is now and nothing about the FD amount.

This is a link for MM2Hers:
https://www.imi.gov.my/portal2017/in.../ms/mm2h.htmlE

Last edited by StillSearching; Aug 26th 2021 at 8:41 am.
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Old Aug 26th 2021, 1:35 pm
  #113  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by StillSearching View Post
Thank you for the above link.
It said those who need more information could log on to the Immigration website at https://www.imi.gov.my/
But is immigration site updated? It looks like the same as it is now and nothing about the FD amount.

This is a link for MM2Hers:
https://www.imi.gov.my/portal2017/in.../ms/mm2h.htmlE
The English version of the immigration website is not yet updated to the new requirements. For example: it lists an income requirement of RM10,000 per month.
https://www.imi.gov.my/portal2017/in...n/mm2h-bi.html
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Old Aug 27th 2021, 4:57 am
  #114  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

New Cabinet announced this morning. No change from the previous administration in the Home Minister, who controls Immigration. This doesn't look good for those hoping for a rethink on MM2H policy.
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Old Aug 27th 2021, 7:41 am
  #115  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by Epicurious View Post
New Cabinet announced this morning. No change from the previous administration in the Home Minister, who controls Immigration. This doesn't look good for those hoping for a rethink on MM2H policy.
Now that you mention this: I was surprised to see that the announcement about the revamped MM2H was not done by the minister in charge, but by a civil servant of the immigration department. One would expect new policies to be announced by a minister.
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Old Aug 27th 2021, 7:45 am
  #116  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Link to form providing feedback on new MM2H rules
Following the Malaysian Government's decision and amendments to the MM2H program, some bi-lateral Business Chambers in Malaysia would like MM2H holders to take this survey to help us with our advocacy and communication with the Malaysian authorities. We will use the results to prepare for upcoming dialogues with MITI, MoHA and MOTAC.

IMPORTANT NOTE:
(i) This survey is only for those currently under the MM2H Programme
(ii) Information received will be aggregated and treated as confidential.
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Old Aug 28th 2021, 8:22 am
  #117  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Actually he was the Principal Secretary of the Home Ministry, Wan Ahmad Dalan. The Department head of Immigration was at his side in his uniform.

But Epicurious is correct. The likeihood of there being a U-Turn on this is pretty small...though I'd welcome at least the Grandfathering of terms for those already with a visa. How could that hurt? The new terms would "attract" all those wealthy celebs till, and keep out the hordes of refugees from HongKong (revolting...students, that is), Myanmar (not real Malays), Bangladesh (global warming), bearded Afghans, and football hooligans who want to sneak into the touring Chelsea, Arsenal, Juventus, Sparta or Spurs sides (everywhere else).

The only major change I can see in the cabinet...which kind of makes one wonder why they even bothered to sack Muyhiddin...is that Sarawak got a Deputy PM status position. The Borneo contingent kept all their other posts but recieved a "Deputy" (though they aren't calling it that) post of Justice/Parliamentary Affairs. That's held by the Rep from Santubong Wan Ahmand Dahlan bin Aziz..from the tourist resort town up on the coast North of Kuching. So at least marginally, Sarawak has strengthened its position in the government.

So likely what we have is no change in the MM2H (although I'm hoping they see reason and grandfather the terms of those already in MM2H) but also likely no successful effort to clamp down on the "Sarawak Back Door". Some might try, of course. It's also a back door to prevent as much asset flight, selling of homes, etc. They can look like they were tough to their constituents, but in fact...not as tough as it appeared. Sarawak Back Door is hard for those under 50, though. And a lot of hoops to jump through.
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Old Aug 30th 2021, 10:27 am
  #118  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Johor Sultan: New MM2H conditions too restrictive, will drive foreigners away
Sultan Ibrahim said the new revisions are very negative and it was ridiculous to subject existing MM2H pass holders to the new conditions.“When we continue to flip-flop on conditions, how can we promote Malaysia as an investment destination?” he questioned.

Sultan Ibrahim said the government should be more compassionate to foreigners who are keen to settle and make Malaysia their retirement home.

“When you keep shifting the goalposts, foreigners will lose confidence in Malaysia. This is not the right time to raise fees.

“Let us help put Malaysia back on the world map as the best place to live for high net-worth foreigners.

“Drastic changes like this will tarnish our image and will make us a laughing stock of the world,” he warned.

Long-term MM2H visa holders are said to have invested nearly RM12 billion in the economy since 2002. They reportedly spend around RM10,000 a month, with many having purchased high-end properties in Johor.
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Old Aug 31st 2021, 8:26 am
  #119  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

A small positive development, though perhaps exected from the Sultan of Johor. If other Sultans and the King state emphatically that the policy is not likely to help Malaysia financial recover, and presents a face of Malaysia that appears to investors and foreigners to be xenophobic and unreliable perhaps there will be a change.

A good first step would be at least to "Grandfather In" those already holding an MM2H. That would:
1) Prevent the mass dumping of property on markets that are already flush with vacancies and overhang.
2) Maintain the spending of those already in the program.
3) Prevent the loss of the FD accounts of, ultimately, 33,000 principles holding visas...and other accounts as well. Thus the Ringgit will not be plunged into a delationary spiral against other currencies.

Then put the new program under a 1 year probationary status for new applications for after the Pandemic. At the end of the year period compare the numbers of recipients to that of Pre-Covid-2019, and contrast the amounts brought in from wealthy investors vs. the Middle- and Upper-Middle Class figures from that year.
Total new FD 2019 vs 2022. Total new recipients 2019 vs. 2022. Total new real estate purchases/rentals 2019 vs. 2022.

If the 2019 figures are higher then return to the original program...if the net benefits are greater in the new proposal, keep that. I would be willing to bet that the 2019 net benefits would exceed the one or two recipients that they get new these new conditions.
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Old Aug 31st 2021, 8:42 am
  #120  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

I agree with RA here and suggest a couple of additional points.

- re-instate the previous program with modest increases in requirements based on CLI (cost of living index) or similar adjustment, but potentially allow grandfathering for those already committed
- create a NEW ELITE program with the new requirements and significant additional benefits above and beyond what normal MM2H program offers. Not sure what those will be, but something can be devised.. like a pathway to PR etc..
- set volume (even individual nationality) targets .. without targeting specific nationality/racial group. e-g; no more than 10k annual visa issues and no more than 10% can be of same national origin etc

My $0.02
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