Donna Evleth a écrit :

    > Dans l'article <%6%[email protected] k.net>,
    > "pantagruel" <[email protected]> a écrit :
    > >
    > > Also can someone enlighten me on C. de Mur. I "googled" it but with no
    > > satisfaction and my food dictionary does not have it. What is it and does it
    > > go by an English name. Thanks.
    > If this is Crème de Mur, it is the same idea as Crème de Cassis, but is
    > blackberry liqueur. "Mur" is blackberry.

And it would be "mûre" and thus "crème de mûre" (useful for a Google search)

Nathalie in Switzerland

An ouzo anecdote:
some years ago a friend was with a group of people partying and
bar-crawling on the Greek island of Ios, where every other doorway seems to
open into a bar. They would go into a place, order a round of ouzo and
water, slam them down and dance a bit, then move on to the next door. After
a fair number of these, Bernie was feeling a bit "tired and emotional" and
it was his turn to order: "5 ouzo and water, please" .....the barman
replied "sorry sir, we've run out of water".


--
Tim C.

On 24/03/04 11:04, in article [email protected], "Nathalie Chiva"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > Donna Evleth a écrit :
    >
    >>
    >> Dans l'article <%6%[email protected] k.net>,
    >> "pantagruel" <[email protected]> a écrit :
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Also can someone enlighten me on C. de Mur. I "googled" it but with no
    >>> satisfaction and my food dictionary does not have it. What is it and does it
    >>> go by an English name. Thanks.
    >>
    >> If this is Crème de Mur, it is the same idea as Crème de Cassis, but is
    >> blackberry liqueur. "Mur" is blackberry.
    >
    > And it would be "mûre" and thus "crème de mûre" (useful for a Google search)
    >
    > Nathalie in Switzerland

Both spellings are used, but as usual in France the "e" is dropped in
speaking. The original posting was "C. de Mur" which must have been
found somewhere.

Many of the recipes for it mention "crème de mure" but not mûre,
which I assume in a classroom dictée would be marked down! Usually
teachers have "zero tolerance" in this sort of thing.

In my original posting I wrote crème de mûr, without the "e" and did
not recognize that as an "error" also! I merely painted it from
another web site.

If I google "creme de mure" without accents on www.google.fr

I got 55 hits

with "creme de mur"

I only got 1, but got another site with crème de mûr!

With it correctly accented, as you recommended my google gives
up and says:

"Aucun document ne correspond aux termes de recherche spécifiés "cr?me de
m?re")!

My google recomends then to try crime de m?re" but that gives

"Aucun document ne correspond aux termes de recherche spécifiés ("crime de
m?re" ).

If I fill in the " u" and ask for "crime de mure"

I get nothing also with "crime de mur" although "mur" by
itself starts out with the "Mur de Berlin" which was
a crime against humanity!

Returning to the "crème de mûre", those who drink it should
be "assez mur" to drink it!

Earl

On 24/03/04 11:07, in article
[email protected] , "Tim Challenger"
<"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at"> wrote:

    > the barman
    > replied "sorry sir, we've run out of water".


I assume he had water but not chilled!

Earl

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:10:10 +0100, Earl Evleth wrote:

    > On 24/03/04 11:07, in article
    > [email protected] , "Tim Challenger"
    > <"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at"> wrote:
    >
    >> the barman
    >> replied "sorry sir, we've run out of water".
    >
    > I assume he had water but not chilled!
    >
    > Earl

I don't know - have you ever been to the bars at the top of the hill on
Ios? Water would probably have been a low priority item. :-)
--
Tim C.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:07:42 +0100, Earl Evleth wrote:

    > On 24/03/04 11:04, in article [email protected], "Nathalie Chiva"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Donna Evleth a écrit :
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Dans l'article <%6%[email protected] k.net>,
    >>> "pantagruel" <[email protected]> a écrit :
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Also can someone enlighten me on C. de Mur. I "googled" it but with no
    >>>> satisfaction and my food dictionary does not have it. What is it and does it
    >>>> go by an English name. Thanks.
    >>>
    >>> If this is Crème de Mur, it is the same idea as Crème de Cassis, but is
    >>> blackberry liqueur. "Mur" is blackberry.
    >>
    >> And it would be "mûre" and thus "crème de mûre" (useful for a Google search)
    >>
    >> Nathalie in Switzerland
    >
    > Both spellings are used, but as usual in France the "e" is dropped in
    > speaking. The original posting was "C. de Mur" which must have been
    > found somewhere.

I wasn't going to point this out, but since Nathalie did... I don't
think both spellings are used. "Mur" is just a wall. And the accent is
needed. Of course, on a computer, especially if using an American
keyboard...

"Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BC83781D.2B681%[email protected]...
    > Almost always in a French restaurant you will
    > be asked if you want a before-the-dinner drink,
    > an hyphenated expression in English but a short one
    > in French, l'apéritif (in French slang l'apéro, the word
    > will not be used by a waiter, however, but at the comptoir
    > it might).
    > These can also be drunk during the day in a café, instead
    > of a beer or glass of wine, if one drinking alcoholic
    > drinks.
    > For those who like the taste of food, especially when
    > eating at a classy restaurant, drinking a tongue paralyzing
    > whisky or a sweet apéritif will kill a fine palate.
    > Great chefs will rage at cigarettes, distillates or sweet wines.
    > If they find a person smoking between courses, death
    > may be at hand.
    > More acceptable is a flûte of champagne or, possibly
    > a KIR
    > First, kirs can be prepared using either a white wine or
    > champagne (kir royal).
    > The traditional kir is composed of 1/3rd crème de cassis (from
    > Dijon) and 2/3 of aligoté, a white wine from Burgundy.
    > To reduce the sugary content CUT the crème de cassis.
    > Other crèmes can be used
    > crème de framboise
    > crème de mûr
    > These will produce various colors of kirs, red, blue etc.
    > The origins of the name??
    > The story seems to involve a mayor of Digon may have served
    > it or at least he gave the commercial right to use his
    > name in connection with it. He was a member of the
    > resistance ("de la première heure", même) and lived
    > to be 92, by drinking kirs, sans doute.
    > Anyway, a kir won`t wipe out your taste buds.
    > It is the digestifs which will destroy you
    > (after a kir, a bottle of wine at dinner, what do you expect
    > if you swig down a couple of cognacs?)
    > Earl

I make it my practice to order a really dry fino sherry in a French
restaurant as an aperitif. Frankly all that adulterated wine mixed with
fruit juice is best left to posers. (only joking) So the French almost
annexed Spain under Napoleon but never succeeded, thank goodness, and a
good Fino is simply essential to clean the palette. Preferably with an olive
or two. Make sure it's a fresh Fino not too old as they are best drunk
straight from the blenders barrel. Look for a Lustau. Emilio does the stuff.
Nige

devil a écrit :

    > On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:07:42 +0100, Earl Evleth wrote:
    > > On 24/03/04 11:04, in article [email protected], "Nathalie Chiva"
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Donna Evleth a écrit :
    > >>
    > >>>
    > >>> Dans l'article <%6%[email protected] k.net>,
    > >>> "pantagruel" <[email protected]> a écrit :
    > >>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>> Also can someone enlighten me on C. de Mur. I "googled" it but with no
    > >>>> satisfaction and my food dictionary does not have it. What is it and does it
    > >>>> go by an English name. Thanks.
    > >>>
    > >>> If this is Crème de Mur, it is the same idea as Crème de Cassis, but is
    > >>> blackberry liqueur. "Mur" is blackberry.
    > >>
    > >> And it would be "mûre" and thus "crème de mûre" (useful for a Google search)
    > >>
    > >> Nathalie in Switzerland
    > >
    > > Both spellings are used, but as usual in France the "e" is dropped in
    > > speaking. The original posting was "C. de Mur" which must have been
    > > found somewhere.
    > I wasn't going to point this out, but since Nathalie did... I don't
    > think both spellings are used. "Mur" is just a wall. And the accent is
    > needed. Of course, on a computer, especially if using an American
    > keyboard...

Yup. There is only one spelling (2 possible spellings for the same word are most
unusual in French, BTW)

Nathalie in Switzerland

On 24/03/04 12:56, in article
[email protected] , "Tim Challenger"
<"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at"> wrote:

    > I don't know - have you ever been to the bars at the top of the hill on
    > Ios? Water would probably have been a low priority item. :-)

los?? Ou ça?

We stay next to the beach in Aegina-Ville, every year for years.

At our ages we drink only retsina, a liter of it, chilled, at dinner,
from a canister.

Earl

On 24/03/04 15:51, in article [email protected],
"devil" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I wasn't going to point this out, but since Nathalie did... I don't
    > think both spellings are used. "Mur" is just a wall.

It also means ripe or mature.

I did say I found some references to the misspelling "mur" even in the
kir google search, like

http://www.sartrouville.info/abonne/inter%20caves/

which says CRÈME DE MUR

The problem with a misspelling is when does it not become one? Through
use. Languages are living entities. My wife is still mad that snuck has
entered the English language as a variation of sneaked. The "uck" ending
is not one of the most beautiful sounds in the English language.

Who knows when mur will have snuck in and replaced mure? It is not for now.

Earl

On 24/03/04 16:35, in article [email protected], "Nathalie Chiva"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > Yup. There is only one spelling (2 possible spellings for the same word are
    > most unusual in French, BTW)

Just wait, we have have fully franglayed it in 50 more years.

Earl

For the record (and pardon the top post) but it is Negroni. Just my
terrible typing. The recipes I read did not have Angostura bitters in it,
but these things aren't written in stone. I find that Campari and tonic with
a lime squeeze makes a pretty good drink. To each his own.
"David Horne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1gb4di7.yfwmx453rqyN%[email protected]...
    > pantagruel <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Have you tried a Negoni?
    > I thought it was called a Negroni- probably my mistake?
    > > equal parts of Campari, gin, and sweet vermouth,
    > > shaken with ice and strained or on the rocks.
    > Yes, I like it. Again, I'm confused- I thought it also had angostura
    > (sp?) bitters in it. I think that's what I used, anyway- or maybe that
    > was another cocktail. I'm not a fan of campari and soda, but I did like
    > the Neg(r?)oni.
    > > By the way I understand that British sailors used to be called "limeys"
    > > (maybe they still are) because they would take fresh limes on sailing
    > > expeditions with them to stave off scurvy. Then why is it that anywhere
in
    > > England I went, which
    > > was all over, I can't get a G&T with a fresh lime?
    > Yes, lemon isn't the same in it. To be fair though, I think that a lot
    > of pubs and bars will give you a slice of lime in a G&T now. Certainly
    > more than you used to get.
    > David
    > --
    > David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    > davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:51:53 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, devil <[email protected]>
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :


... Coming back to France though, I find it amazing how so few people in
... France know where he is buried. But then they probably prefer to be
... unaware also of who his mother was.

His body is there - his heart is in England, I forget where.

Magda <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:51:53 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, devil <[email protected]>
    >arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ... Coming back to France though, I find it amazing how so few people in
    > ... France know where he is buried. But then they probably prefer to be
    > ... unaware also of who his mother was.
    >His body is there - his heart is in England, I forget where.

That's great. Richard-Coeur-de-Lion-sans-coeur.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED

Tim Kroesen muttered....

    > Coooooooo.... Paregoric!!! My Grandmother loved it too...<g>
    >
    > But what of that ultimate forbidden (in the US) European drink for
    > Adults... Absinthe??? Is the real (Wormwood) stuff available? Did it
    > ever actually contain narcotics? Is it safe??? Will I spout dark
    > poetry after imbibing???

The Espanyards still produce something called absinthe (and some claim it
still has wormwood), but I don't think that the you're going to turn into
Verlaine from drinking it.

Anise del Mono is bad enough.

    >
    > Tim K
    >
    > "Olivers" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    >
    >> Those of us raised when Paregoric was still the infant bowel and
    >> temperament calmative of choice are partial to a bit/hit of anise in
    > the
    >> evening.
    >> TMO
    >
    >