devil <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:45:46 -0800, bondog wrote:
    >> Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BC83781D.2B681%[email protected]>...
    >>> The traditional kir is composed of 1/3rd crème de cassis (from
    >>> Dijon) and 2/3 of aligoté, a white wine from Burgundy.
    >>>
    >> Isn't it true that most whites from Burgandy are actually the same as
    >> Chardonnay in the US?
    >Well, white burgundy is made from Chardonnay grapes. But's about where
    >the comparison stops.
    >Indeed they are typically made in a very different way. French burgundies
    >are bone dry, very austere, nothing like flowery, grassy (yuck) California
    >Chardonnay. And no, I don't like the Australian ones either.
Burgundy chardonnays are not quite like most other French chardonnays,
either. No other chardonnay has the crisp dryness of, say, Chablis.

    >Arguably the two French wines that remain way above competition from
    >elsewhere (at least in my book) are Chardonnay and Alsace wines such as
    >obviously Gewurztraminer, and also their light Pinot Noir.
Let's have Pouilly Fumé (from the Loire) and that drier Alsace,
Riesling. I'll give you the Gewurtz. Deal?

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED

Earl, you're really a tiresome jerk. Why don't you go visit your black drug
dealer pal who's in a French prison? Bring your guitar and sing some
jailhouse tunes.


"Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BC83781D.2B681%[email protected]...
    > Almost always in a French restaurant you will
    > be asked if you want a before-the-dinner drink,
    > an hyphenated expression in English but a short one
    > in French, l'apéritif (in French slang l'apéro, the word
    > will not be used by a waiter, however, but at the comptoir
    > it might).
    > These can also be drunk during the day in a café, instead
    > of a beer or glass of wine, if one drinking alcoholic
    > drinks.
    > For those who like the taste of food, especially when
    > eating at a classy restaurant, drinking a tongue paralyzing
    > whisky or a sweet apéritif will kill a fine palate.
    > Great chefs will rage at cigarettes, distillates or sweet wines.
    > If they find a person smoking between courses, death
    > may be at hand.
    > More acceptable is a flûte of champagne or, possibly
    > a KIR
    > First, kirs can be prepared using either a white wine or
    > champagne (kir royal).
    > The traditional kir is composed of 1/3rd crème de cassis (from
    > Dijon) and 2/3 of aligoté, a white wine from Burgundy.
    > To reduce the sugary content CUT the crème de cassis.
    > Other crèmes can be used
    > crème de framboise
    > crème de mûr
    > These will produce various colors of kirs, red, blue etc.
    > The origins of the name??
    > The story seems to involve a mayor of Digon may have served
    > it or at least he gave the commercial right to use his
    > name in connection with it. He was a member of the
    > resistance ("de la première heure", même) and lived
    > to be 92, by drinking kirs, sans doute.
    > Anyway, a kir won`t wipe out your taste buds.
    > It is the digestifs which will destroy you
    > (after a kir, a bottle of wine at dinner, what do you expect
    > if you swig down a couple of cognacs?)
    > Earl

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:07:27 +0000, Padraig Breathnach wrote:

    > devil <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:45:46 -0800, bondog wrote:
    >>> Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BC83781D.2B681%[email protected]>...
    >>>> The traditional kir is composed of 1/3rd crème de cassis (from
    >>>> Dijon) and 2/3 of aligoté, a white wine from Burgundy.
    >>>>
    >>> Isn't it true that most whites from Burgandy are actually the same as
    >>> Chardonnay in the US?
    >>Well, white burgundy is made from Chardonnay grapes. But's about where
    >>the comparison stops.
    >>Indeed they are typically made in a very different way. French burgundies
    >>are bone dry, very austere, nothing like flowery, grassy (yuck) California
    >>Chardonnay. And no, I don't like the Australian ones either.
    > Burgundy chardonnays are not quite like most other French chardonnays,
    > either. No other chardonnay has the crisp dryness of, say, Chablis.

No other Burgundy? Chablis are OK, but not top. Thrity years ago they
would have been considered a somewhat second class alternative to better
Burgundies.

    >>Arguably the two French wines that remain way above competition from
    >>elsewhere (at least in my book) are Chardonnay and Alsace wines such as
    >>obviously Gewurztraminer, and also their light Pinot Noir.
    > Let's have Pouilly Fumé (from the Loire) and that drier Alsace,
    > Riesling. I'll give you the Gewurtz. Deal?

I'll take the Gewurz. Riesling can sure be OK, but then also Tokay AKA
Pinot blanc.

Fume is the same grape as sauvignon blanc. I like it better in blends
with Semillon, which they do to a vaying degree in Bordeaux.

The truth being, however, that I am partial to Semillon.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:07:27 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >>Arguably the two French wines that remain way above competition from
    >>elsewhere (at least in my book) are Chardonnay and Alsace wines such as
    >>obviously Gewurztraminer, and also their light Pinot Noir.
    >Let's have Pouilly Fumé (from the Loire) and that drier Alsace,
    >Riesling. I'll give you the Gewurtz. Deal?

For white wine I like Chardonnay and mostly drink Pouilly Fuissé. I
loved Meursault but it became too expensive for me.

I have heard comments that Pouilly Fuissé is much overrated but I
don't know if this is fact (I would hate to think I was drinking the
equivalent of Blue Nun). I could say I'm still looking to find
one I like more but in reality I just keep buying Pouilly Fuissé.
Any alternative suggestions welcomed.

I don't think I have ever drunk Pouilly Fumé. How does Sauvignon
Blanc compare with Chardonnay?

I have to say I have rather given up on imported French red wines. I
like the Australian Wolf Blass Yellow label. I also seem to be
accidently converting a lot of my friends. I bring a bottle to
dinner and find afterwards they have started buying it themselves.

I have friends who moved to France and live near Bordeaux. When they
visit, I'm always nervous of offering them any wine because the
imported wine we have to buy in UK doesn't compare with the wines they
can buy locally.

If France were to export better wines at the correct price, I think
they would fare better in the UK market.


Derek

devil <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:07:27 +0000, Padraig Breathnach wrote:
    >> devil <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:45:46 -0800, bondog wrote:
    >>>> Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BC83781D.2B681%[email protected]>...
    >>>>> The traditional kir is composed of 1/3rd crème de cassis (from
    >>>>> Dijon) and 2/3 of aligoté, a white wine from Burgundy.
    >>>>>
    >>>> Isn't it true that most whites from Burgandy are actually the same as
    >>>> Chardonnay in the US?
    >>>Well, white burgundy is made from Chardonnay grapes. But's about where
    >>>the comparison stops.
    >>>Indeed they are typically made in a very different way. French burgundies
    >>>are bone dry, very austere, nothing like flowery, grassy (yuck) California
    >>>Chardonnay. And no, I don't like the Australian ones either.
    >> Burgundy chardonnays are not quite like most other French chardonnays,
    >> either. No other chardonnay has the crisp dryness of, say, Chablis.
    >No other Burgundy? Chablis are OK, but not top. Thrity years ago they
    >would have been considered a somewhat second class alternative to better
    >Burgundies.
I think this links with my liking for white fish -- I want clean dry
whites with my turbot and beurre blanc.

I think we're going to sort things very nicely: I'll take the Chablis;
you take the oakier stuff, but we might share the Pouilly-Fuissé.

Do you want the Aligoté? I don't much care for it, but perhaps I've
been unlucky with it. Or we could give it to Earl for his kir.

We might fight over the reds: I tend to like them.

    >>>Arguably the two French wines that remain way above competition from
    >>>elsewhere (at least in my book) are Chardonnay and Alsace wines such as
    >>>obviously Gewurztraminer, and also their light Pinot Noir.
    >> Let's have Pouilly Fumé (from the Loire) and that drier Alsace,
    >> Riesling. I'll give you the Gewurtz. Deal?
    >I'll take the Gewurz. Riesling can sure be OK, but then also Tokay AKA
    >Pinot blanc.
    >Fume is the same grape as sauvignon blanc. I like it better in blends
    >with Semillon, which they do to a vaying degree in Bordeaux.
Give me a sauvignon blanc in preference to most chardonnays (Chablis
being a great exception to that generalisation). It's a clean
palate-clearing cépage. And for cheap, I'll go for Entre-Deux-Mers:
for the price, it's very drinkable.

    >The truth being, however, that I am partial to Semillon.
I'm a sauvignon man, myself, or riesling, with pinot gris for light
relief (including summer quaffing).

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 01:12:32 +0000, Derek McBryde wrote:

    > On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:07:27 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>>Arguably the two French wines that remain way above competition from
    >>>elsewhere (at least in my book) are Chardonnay and Alsace wines such as
    >>>obviously Gewurztraminer, and also their light Pinot Noir.
    >>Let's have Pouilly Fumé (from the Loire) and that drier Alsace,
    >>Riesling. I'll give you the Gewurtz. Deal?
    >
    > For white wine I like Chardonnay and mostly drink Pouilly Fuissé. I
    > loved Meursault but it became too expensive for me.
    >
    > I have heard comments that Pouilly Fuissé is much overrated but I
    > don't know if this is fact (I would hate to think I was drinking the
    > equivalent of Blue Nun). I could say I'm still looking to find
    > one I like more but in reality I just keep buying Pouilly Fuissé.
    > Any alternative suggestions welcomed.
    >
    > I don't think I have ever drunk Pouilly Fumé. How does Sauvignon
    > Blanc compare with Chardonnay?

Agreed.

    > I have to say I have rather given up on imported French red wines. I
    > like the Australian Wolf Blass Yellow label. I also seem to be
    > accidently converting a lot of my friends. I bring a bottle to
    > dinner and find afterwards they have started buying it themselves.
    >
    > I have friends who moved to France and live near Bordeaux. When they
    > visit, I'm always nervous of offering them any wine because the
    > imported wine we have to buy in UK doesn't compare with the wines they
    > can buy locally.
    >
    > If France were to export better wines at the correct price, I think
    > they would fare better in the UK market.

Real issue is price. I am not terribly convinced wine sold locally is any
better, but possibly tax structure and lower distribution costs make
French wine in general cheaper locally?

I don't drink Wolf Blass on a regular basis, but I can see that it would
be attractive pricewise compared with most French stuff.

Bulk of the Cabernet or Merlot that we have on a regular basis is Chilean
nowadays. Some of which is quite cheap, but if you go to their third level
or so (not the top) you get quite decent stuff at still good prices.
Montes Alpha comes to mind. Other reds which we find well-priced include
Chiantis such as Nipozzano, and one French red, the generic Guigual Cote
du Rhone.

Derek McBryde <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:07:27 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>Arguably the two French wines that remain way above competition from
    >>>elsewhere (at least in my book) are Chardonnay and Alsace wines such as
    >>>obviously Gewurztraminer, and also their light Pinot Noir.
    >>Let's have Pouilly Fumé (from the Loire) and that drier Alsace,
    >>Riesling. I'll give you the Gewurtz. Deal?
    >For white wine I like Chardonnay and mostly drink Pouilly Fuissé. I
    >loved Meursault but it became too expensive for me.
    >I have heard comments that Pouilly Fuissé is much overrated but I
    >don't know if this is fact (I would hate to think I was drinking the
    >equivalent of Blue Nun).
I'm no expert. In one way I am very fortunate in that many of the
wines I enjoy are very affordable. I would hate to have a palate so
refined that my wine-drinking became a serious expense. But people of
my acquaintance who are more seriously into wine tend to rate Pouilly
Fumé fairly highly, and it also appeals to my less-sophisticated
tastes.

    >I could say I'm still looking to find
    >one I like more but in reality I just keep buying Pouilly Fuissé.
    >Any alternative suggestions welcomed.
I presume you like the dryness. I find it has a slightly smoky
background taste which sometimes appeals to me. If you want a crisper
Burgundy, it's hard to go wrong with Chablis.

Or go west to Bordeaux, and try Graves (variable in price and quality,
but you can get some very drinkable stuff quite cheaply).

    >I don't think I have ever drunk Pouilly Fumé. How does Sauvignon
    >Blanc compare with Chardonnay?
To my palate, sauvignon suggests lemon. It's for fish, while I would
consider chardonnay for chicken.

    >I have to say I have rather given up on imported French red wines. I
    >like the Australian Wolf Blass Yellow label. I also seem to be
    >accidently converting a lot of my friends. I bring a bottle to
    >dinner and find afterwards they have started buying it themselves.
    >I have friends who moved to France and live near Bordeaux. When they
    >visit, I'm always nervous of offering them any wine because the
    >imported wine we have to buy in UK doesn't compare with the wines they
    >can buy locally.
I would hope that when they come, they bring you a bottle or six.

    >If France were to export better wines at the correct price, I think
    >they would fare better in the UK market.
I think that's true. They tend to keep the best at home (in general,
the home market is more discriminating than the British or Irish
ones).

I take the car to France at least once a year, and a major part of the
programme is buying wine. I think it's worth it, even at the fares I
pay from Ireland: I pay less for my wine, and get much better quality.
Wine-carrying capacity is a serious consideration when I change my
car.

Earlier this evening I was checking fares and dates for a trip shortly
after Easter. Discussions like this are good, as they get me thinking
about what I like, and I have to draw up a list. Last year we weren't
very well organised, bought randomly or capriciously, and got the mix
wrong: no Vacqueras, no Morgon, no Graves (red or white), not enough
Chinon -- I don't know how we survived the winter.

Santé!

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 02:20:06 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >I'm no expert. In one way I am very fortunate in that many of the
    >wines I enjoy are very affordable. I would hate to have a palate so
    >refined that my wine-drinking became a serious expense. But people of
    >my acquaintance who are more seriously into wine tend to rate Pouilly
    >Fumé fairly highly, and it also appeals to my less-sophisticated
    >tastes.

Mmmmm. Pouilly Fumé and fish, a combination I particularly
enjoy.

Here in the U.S. (in my part of it, at least) Pouilly Fuissé can
be found quite easily but Pouilly Fumé almost never (and many of
the local wine shops don't know the difference between them), so
whenever I go to France I make a point of seeking it out.

Darby Jo

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 03:21:54 +0000, Darby Jo wrote:

    > On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 02:20:06 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>I'm no expert. In one way I am very fortunate in that many of the
    >>wines I enjoy are very affordable. I would hate to have a palate so
    >>refined that my wine-drinking became a serious expense. But people of
    >>my acquaintance who are more seriously into wine tend to rate Pouilly
    >>Fumé fairly highly, and it also appeals to my less-sophisticated
    >>tastes.
    >
    > Mmmmm. Pouilly Fumé and fish, a combination I particularly
    > enjoy.
    >
    > Here in the U.S. (in my part of it, at least) Pouilly Fuissé can
    > be found quite easily but Pouilly Fumé almost never (and many of
    > the local wine shops don't know the difference between them), so
    > whenever I go to France I make a point of seeking it out.

I'll take the Pouilly Fuissé any day though.

Earl, probably picked apricots there.


"Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BC85113F.2BB5B%[email protected]...
    > On 22/03/04 19:02, in article 220320041002078183%[email protected],
    > "billfrogg" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > I don't know where in the states you live,
    > I have lived in Paris for the last 30 years, but in Los Gatos before
    > then!
    > Earl

In article <BC85113F.2BB5B%[email protected]>,
Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On 22/03/04 19:02, in article 220320041002078183%[email protected],
    > "billfrogg" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > I don't know where in the states you live,
    >
    >
    > I have lived in Paris for the last 30 years, but in Los Gatos before
    > then!
    >
    >

Interesting. Los Gatos is such a trendy place now. During the height
of the dot com boom, a lot of people cashed in stock options and bid up
real estate all over the valley but especially in quasi-urban
communities like Los Gatos.

People who bought homes, around $30k back in the early '70s, saw their
properties bid up over a million. Actually, housing market is still
high, although higher-priced properties haven't appreciated as much.

On 22/03/04 20:45, in article
[email protected], "bondog"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<BC83781D.2B681%[email protected]>...
    >> The traditional kir is composed of 1/3rd crème de cassis (from
    >> Dijon) and 2/3 of aligoté, a white wine from Burgundy.
    >>
    > Isn't it true that most whites from Burgandy are actually the same as
    > Chardonnay in the US?

The French Chardonnays I know of come from Champagne country which is
to the north west of Burgundy.

But the following information backs you up. I have mentioned
"Montrachet" before as the finest of whites, most of us who
know about it only get to drink a few bottles of the stuff in our lifetimes!

But I have drank some California Chardonnays which are fabulous. I supposed
there are others in the world equally as outstanding.

Earl

*****



I'm Dreaming Of A White Burgundy

Nick Passmore

"I'll have a glass of Chardonnay, please."

With these words, millions of people from Boston to Brisbane order up a
glass of what is by far the world's most popular type of wine. Yet as they
sip their Chardonnay, only a tiny proportion of them are aware that the
grape that gives its name to the wine they are enjoying is also responsible
for some of the finest wines in the world, the great white wines of
Burgundy.

The Chardonnay grape is capable of producing--with a little time and
care--very decent wines almost everywhere it is grown. But it is only in
Burgundy, where it first originated, that it reaches its apotheosis and
achieves the sublime perfection of which it is capable.

What is so surprising is not that the best California or Australian
Chardonnays don't come close to the great Burgundies, but that they have
come so far in so little time--after all, the Burgundians have been at it
since the second century A.D., so they should have learned a thing or two by
now.

What they have learned is how to use exactly the right combination of
hybrids, pruning, soil, microclimate and viniculture to coax the Chardonnay
grape into yielding the wonderful elixir it is capable of when the
conditions are just right.

So Little Costs So Much For So Few

Yet despite all these centuries of wine-making expertise, it is only a
minuscule proportion of white Burgundy that achieves this perfection and,
year after year, the best wine comes from just a handful of the thousands of
vineyards in Burgundy.

This is why it is so phenomenally expensive. While there is of course more
than an element of snobbery in the motivation of people paying the
extraordinary prices that great Burgundy fetches, it is also true that the
wine is unquestionably unique--there is nothing like it made anywhere else
in the world--and very little of it is produced. The producers of this wine
do not sell it; they allocate it, rationing out a few cases at a time to
favored distributors.

The best white Burgundy comes from just two small areas of the region;
Chablis in the north and the Côte de Beaune , the southern half of the Côte
d'Or, the heart of Burgundy.

In Chablis, the heavily limestoned soil produces a pale, dry wine that
despite its acidity is soft and immediately accessible. It is fermented
almost exclusively in stainless steel tanks giving the Grand Crus and better
Premier Crus a subtle and refined complexity without the obvious opulence of
the oak-fermented wines from the Côte de Beaune.

Chablis used to be one of the few French wine names known to the wider
public--and was correspondingly overpriced. But fashions change and other
regions and names have come to the fore, so good Chablis is often now among
the best buys in Burgundy.

In the Côte de Beaune, the wines can achieve almost unbelievable heights of
intense yet nuanced flavor. Corton-Charlemagne is a rich, powerful wine;
those of Meursault are softer, less showy but with great depth and
complexity, and the various Montrachets have a luscious concentration of
flavor that makes them the most prized of all.

All Burgundy is divided into three legally defined levels of quality based
on the vineyard from which the wine comes. At the top of the pyramid are the
thirteen--including the seven in Chablis--white Grand Cru vineyards. In the
Côte de Beaune they are so famous their name alone appears on the label. In
Chablis, where the individual vineyards are less well known, the labels bear
the words Chablis Grand Cru followed by the vineyard name.

These Grand Cru wines are the essence of great burgundy and it is because of
their fame that the region has achieved its renown.

The next rung down are the three hundred or so Premier Cru vineyards. These
wines can on occasion approach and even surpass the Grand Crus but they are
generally less spectacularly brilliant, albeit wonderful wines. In the Côte
de Beaune their labels carry the village name followed in smaller type by
the name of the vineyard, or simply "Premier Cru" if the wine is a blend
from more than one vineyard. In Chablis they have "Chablis Premier Cru"
followed by the vineyard name.

At the third level of classification are wines sold under the simple village
appellations. These wines can vary tremendously in quality depending on the
maker, though even the best only hint at the perfection that can be achieved
by their illustrious neighbors.


She Gets To Keep The Chalet And The Rolls, I Want The Montrachet
As if trying to sort out the complexities of a Burgundy label weren't
confusing enough, several villages have, for marketing reasons, appended the
name of their most famous vineyard to their village name. The most egregious
example of this jiggery-pokery is Montrachet .

This Grand Cru is probably the most famous white wine in the world and many
regard it as the quintessence of white Burgundy. However, the vineyard that
produces it straddles the boundary between the villages of Chassagne and
Puligny and both villages have inconsiderately hyphenated the vineyard name
to theirs. Thus you have Montrachet, a Grand Cru wine, and
Chassagne-Montrachet and Puligny-Montrachet which are merely village
appellations--definitely good wines, but not to be mistaken for the real
thing.

Unfortunately, this confusing situation is further complicated by the fact
that unlike every other wine region, in Burgundy it is rare to have only one
owner of a vineyard. Most have a dozen different proprietors and these
smallholders do not have the resources to make and market the wine
themselves. Enter the negociants . These are wholesalers or merchants who
buy up the grapes or newly made wine from the growers and age, blend,
bottle, mature and market the resulting product. In Burgundy, the name of
the negociants on the bottle is as important as where the wine came
from--often more so.

Wine made from the Chardonnay grape is far and away the most popular wine in
the world, enjoyed by novice and sophisticated connoisseur alike. And if you
are one of them and have never experienced the superb perfection it can
achieve in Burgundy, you owe it to yourself to explore this rarefied world.
It won't be a cheap journey but I guarantee that you will never think about
wine the same way again.

Nick Passmore, an Englishman and bon vivant living in New York, wants
nothing more than to have a little vineyard of his own, preferably in
Montrachet.

On 23/03/04 0:31, in article
[email protected], "David"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > Is this post a statement, an account or a question ?
    > Dave


Information. Recommendations for people to avoid
overly sweet or alcoholically strong drinks befoe
eating a good French meal.

For a pizza anything goes.

Earl

On 23/03/04 0:38, in article 220320041538453589%[email protected],
"billfrogg" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Wow! fifty years ago we used to drive down to Los Gatos and visit an
    > old Italian lady who would sell us a strong red wine she made and would
    > sell us by the gallon....we brought our own jugs. Oh nostalgia! I
    > remember she spoke very refined (convent?) English and wore high black
    > shoes that had buttons. Out of another place and time. bill


We lived on a hill side above the town not too far from the vineyard
maintained by some Catholic institution. It was not a great wine
but was local. Of course, the prohibition years badly damaged
California wine production, although some sacramental wine
productions were allowed. California wines still had not recovered
that much by the 1950s and in the 1960s took off. The Santa Cruz
mountains also had some local production, little producers of the
type you mentioned.

The web now give a lot of addresses of local producers but I don`t
know if any of them are good. When I taught at UC Santa Cruz in the
late 60s early 70s, some of the Chemistry faculty got into
wine production, buying local grapes and doing it themselves.
In some years the wine was so good that even jug wines were of
good enough quality that some of them rebottled it for longer
life, like an extraordinary Zinfandel (that wine varies wildly
from junk to marvelous).

Later we noticed, on visiting California, vineyards where none
existed before, like the Salinas valley and down around
Santa Maria. Also for a while some good wines were coming
out of Temecula area which is near San Diego. This
is a special area which does not become "too hot" for
good grapes. The central valley wines never had a good
reputation supposedly because of excessive summer temperatures.

Earl

pantagruel schrieb:

    > I agree. I took up with Kir while travelling in France, especially in Paris
    > since several restuarants served a complimentaryh one. I have to use some
    > dry wine since Aligonte is near impossible to get here in the states.

Spelling it "Aligoté" might help.

Regards, ULF