In article ,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
    >More likely, you use a little common courtesy in dealing with the people
    >you meet. I, too, find it difficult to understand this myth of French
    >"rudeness" (which I've heard from people whose opinions I would
    >ordinarily respect). Au contraire, I've had French people go out of
    >their way to be helpful, when I've needed it. (But of course, if you go
    >anywhere EXPECTING to be ill-treated, it probably shows up in a
    >defensively belligerent attitude, and people respond in kind.)


One example of French courtesy occurred a few years ago.

We had just arrived in France and were driving down towards Gascony. In
the Limoges area, we stopped to get some cash from an ATM because we
wanted to buy some bread, cheese, etc., for lunch. It was Monday
lunchtime so most banks were closed and we couldn't find an ATM.

We went into a small supermarket which accepted credit cards.

When we got to the checkout, we tried one card which for some reason
(no, we had not maxed it out) did not work. A second did not. So I
offered to pay with our small amount of cash. The checkout operator
would not hear of it and went along all the checkouts until she found
one which worked.

Now it was early lunchtime and the store was busy, a long queue was
building up behind us. In the UK, people would have been getting very
impatient.

I apologised to the queue and explained what was happening. They all,
smiled and said it was OK. The elderly man behind us thanked us
profusely for our help (that is, the UK's help) in W.W.II. Everyone was
charm itself and the card eventually worked.

I cannot imagine this happening in the UK. And this is just one of many
such incidents we have experienced

--
Marie Lewis

Desmond Coughlan wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > le Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:58:10 -0000, dans l'article
, Deep Floyd Mars
a dit ...
    > >> >The french are rude by nature, especially french waiters. In most
    > >> >cases this is not aimed at the individual, they treat everyone foreign
    > >> >like that. In Paris especially, folk can be a bit uppity and rude
    > >> >even to other french people.
    > >> I have never found this to be true.
    > > I certainly have! I speak reasonable French, and I the first time I went
    > > there was with 2 Luxembourgers (who spoke perfect French) and 2 Parisian
    > > guys. I said after a couple of days that I thought the Parisians were
    > > fine, and they disputed this.
    > >
    > > Later on we all got some first-hand rude service when a waiter refused
to
    > > wipe a table down that we sat at. I am told this is to be expected, and
    > > comes with the territory. Ce la vie!
    > Don't hurry back.

Not to that place I wont be.
---
DFM

le Thu, 6 Mar 2003 08:55:05 +0000, dans l'article , Marie Lewis a dit ...=20

    >>More likely, you use a little common courtesy in dealing with the peopl=
e
    >>you meet. I, too, find it difficult to understand this myth of French
    >>"rudeness" (which I've heard from people whose opinions I would
    >>ordinarily respect). Au contraire, I've had French people go out of
    >>their way to be helpful, when I've needed it. (But of course, if you g=
o
    >>anywhere EXPECTING to be ill-treated, it probably shows up in a
    >>defensively belligerent attitude, and people respond in kind.)

    > One example of French courtesy occurred a few years ago.
    >=20
    > We had just arrived in France and were driving down towards Gascony. I=
n
    > the Limoges area, we stopped to get some cash from an ATM because we
    > wanted to buy some bread, cheese, etc., for lunch. It was Monday
    > lunchtime so most banks were closed and we couldn't find an ATM.

So you found a cybercaf=E9, logged on to news:rec.travel.europe, and aske=
d if
there were any 'ATMs' in the Limoges area ?

Attagirl !! ;-)

{ snip }

--=20
Desmond Coughlan=20
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org

Evelyn wrote:

    >More likely, you use a little common courtesy
    > in dealing with the people you meet. I, too,
    > find it difficult to understand this myth of
    > French "rudeness" (which I've heard from
    > people whose opinions I would ordinarily
    > respect). Au contraire, I've had French people
    > go out of their way to be helpful, when I've
    > needed it. (But of course, if you go anywhere
    > EXPECTING to be ill-treated, it probably
    > shows up in a defensively belligerent attitude,
    > and people respond in kind.)


Your are so right, Evelyn. In Paris, we were offered help on several
occasions, when we neither needed nor asked for it. Obviously we looked
like tourists when we scanned a map outside a metro stop, or looked for
signs directing us to the Louvre, or stood on the sidewalk deciding
which way we wanted to walk as we enjoyed the beautiful ironwork and
balconies. On these, as well as on other occasions, locals offered
help. We met with absolutely no rudeness whatsoever among the French
people. The only sour grapes we met were a couple from Ohio!!!

BTW, Evelyn, together with Alex, we are now a trio. Do you think we
could form a chorus for peace?

Sandor

hobart xaxinojo wrote:

    > gregory morrow, in reading through the oft hilarious and at times just
    > downright laughable posts of "the lady with the missing diva" and the
"lewis
    > with the marie" finds that they have in the words of the bard, right well
    > stepped in it :
    > "Gregory Morrow" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
    > >
    > > > (But of course, if you go
    > > > anywhere EXPECTING to be ill-treated, it probably shows up in a
    > > > defensively belligerent attitude, and people respond in kind.)
    > >
    > >
    > > Rather like rec.travel.europe, eh, Evelyn...!!!???
    > >
    > > --
    > > Best
    > > Greg ;o)
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > jolly good show monsieur gregory. don't you just have this picture in
your
    > head that is kind of like those magritte paintings that have a door that
is
    > labeled apple or some such thing. often when reading these posts i can
only
    > wonder at the surreal world these people have constructed for themselves.
i
    > say fine for them and hey maybe we should join them because in this
    > thoroghly contrived and well built world they are oh so right and oh so
good
    > and oh so very very pretty.
    > signed hobart who of course is the prettiest of them all

Lol, very well put, my friend......;---)))

Although I also find that Evelyn's and Marie's postings (and I'll throw in
that sterling member of the French Diplomatic Corps "Magda" for good
measure) rather resemble one of those endless "Where am I?" Escher
paintings or even a Mobius strip...I simply can't imagine attempting to read
their posts whilst dropping a hit of acid or sipping a "near" beer (it's
confusing enough when stone cold sober).......

--
Best
Greg

Desmond Coughlan wrote:


le Thu, 6 Mar 2003 08:55:05 +0000, dans l'article
, Marie Lewis
a dit ...

    >>More likely, you use a little common courtesy in dealing with the people
    >>you meet. I, too, find it difficult to understand this myth of French
    >>"rudeness" (which I've heard from people whose opinions I would
    >>ordinarily respect). Au contraire, I've had French people go out of
    >>their way to be helpful, when I've needed it. (But of course, if you go
    >>anywhere EXPECTING to be ill-treated, it probably shows up in a
    >>defensively belligerent attitude, and people respond in kind.)

    > One example of French courtesy occurred a few years ago.
    > We had just arrived in France and were driving down towards Gascony. In
    > the Limoges area, we stopped to get some cash from an ATM because we
    > wanted to buy some bread, cheese, etc., for lunch. It was Monday
    > lunchtime so most banks were closed and we couldn't find an ATM.

So you found a cybercafé, logged on to news:rec.travel.europe, and asked if
there were any 'ATMs' in the Limoges area ?

Attagirl !! ;-)

Lol...do you think Marie will use the same tactic whilst on her hols to
Transylvania....???

--
Best
Greg

"SÃ¥ndor, the Gypsy WebTV Baron" wrote:

    > Evelyn wrote:
    > >More likely, you use a little common courtesy
    > > in dealing with the people you meet. I, too,
    > > find it difficult to understand this myth of
    > > French "rudeness" (which I've heard from
    > > people whose opinions I would ordinarily
    > > respect). Au contraire, I've had French people
    > > go out of their way to be helpful, when I've
    > > needed it. (But of course, if you go anywhere
    > > EXPECTING to be ill-treated, it probably
    > > shows up in a defensively belligerent attitude,
    > > and people respond in kind.)
    > Your are so right, Evelyn. In Paris, we were offered help on several
    > occasions, when we neither needed nor asked for it. Obviously we looked
    > like tourists when we scanned a map outside a metro stop, or looked for
    > signs directing us to the Louvre, or stood on the sidewalk deciding
    > which way we wanted to walk as we enjoyed the beautiful ironwork and
    > balconies. On these, as well as on other occasions, locals offered
    > help. We met with absolutely no rudeness whatsoever among the French
    > people. The only sour grapes we met were a couple from Ohio!!!

And that's only 'coz you told them you accessed the internet through a
WebTeeVee.....


    > BTW, Evelyn, together with Alex, we are now a trio. Do you think we
    > could form a chorus for peace?


It's going to take me a while to think of a response to *that* one.....

--
Best
Greg

le Fri, 7 Mar 2003 00:58:49 -0000, dans l'article , Deep Floyd Mars a dit ...

{ snip }

    >> Don't hurry back.

    > Not to that place I wont be.



--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org

Morrow wrote:


    >You are so right, Evelyn. In Paris, we were
    > offered help on several occasions, when we
    > neither needed nor asked for it. Obviously we
    > looked like tourists when we scanned a map
    > outside a metro stop, or looked for signs
    > directing us to the Louvre, or stood on the
    > sidewalk deciding which way we wanted to
    > walk as we enjoyed the beautiful ironwork
    > and balconies. On these, as well as on other
    > occasions, locals offered help. We met with
    > absolutely no rudeness whatsoever among
    > the French people. The only sour grapes we
    > met were a couple from Ohio!!!



    >And that's only 'coz you told them you
    > accessed the internet through a
    > WebTeeVee.....


I was waiting for that. But now that you said it, you could be right.
There are people who think their IQ increases proportionately with the
price of their computer (for the European friends: WebTv is a little
black box half the size of a VCR that gives me access to the internet
without a computer. Four years ago, I paid $150 for it....and I love
it.)



    >BTW, Evelyn, together with Alex, we are now
    > a trio. Do you think we could form a chorus
    > for peace?


    >It's going to take me a while to think of a
    > response to *that* one.....
    >--
    >Best
    >Greg


Now, that's a surprise. Do you really think?

Sandor

On Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:07:07 +0000, Derek McBryde
wrote:


    >You could start off with "Excusez moi, mais je ne parle qu'un petit
    >peu de francais. On peut parler en anglais?" or " Parlez vous
    >anglais?"
    >The minute you open your mouth you will show you are not french so
    >don't be surprised if the reply is " I can speak english".

As with most of Europe, they can generally tag you as an American
before the first word. Having said a few words, the identification
is confirmed ;-) and most will go directly to English (often better
English than their American customer can manage). This was my
experience in Paris where all but one or two were charmingly Gallic.

On Thu, 6 Mar 2003 08:46:30 +0000, Marie Lewis
wrote:


    >No, be charming and pleasant. Easy for some of us.

PLONK!

On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 03:52:46 GMT, in a clarity of expression
resembling Cicero, Frank Clarke wrote:

    >On Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:07:07 +0000, Derek McBryde
    > wrote:
    >>You could start off with "Excusez moi, mais je ne parle qu'un petit
    >>peu de francais. On peut parler en anglais?" or " Parlez vous
    >>anglais?"
    >>The minute you open your mouth you will show you are not french so
    >>don't be surprised if the reply is " I can speak english".
    >As with most of Europe, they can generally tag you as an American
    >before the first word. Having said a few words, the identification
    >is confirmed ;-) and most will go directly to English (often better
    >English than their American customer can manage). This was my
    >experience in Paris where all but one or two were charmingly Gallic.

So, like, parlay voo franchise, gets you nowhere?

Frank Lynch
The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page is at:
http://www.samueljohnson.com/

SÃ¥ndor, the Gypsy WebTV Baron wrote:

    > Morrow wrote:
    > >You are so right, Evelyn. In Paris, we were
    > > offered help on several occasions, when we
    > > neither needed nor asked for it. Obviously we
    > > looked like tourists when we scanned a map
    > > outside a metro stop, or looked for signs
    > > directing us to the Louvre, or stood on the
    > > sidewalk deciding which way we wanted to
    > > walk as we enjoyed the beautiful ironwork
    > > and balconies. On these, as well as on other
    > > occasions, locals offered help. We met with
    > > absolutely no rudeness whatsoever among
    > > the French people. The only sour grapes we
    > > met were a couple from Ohio!!!
    > >And that's only 'coz you told them you
    > > accessed the internet through a
    > > WebTeeVee.....
    > I was waiting for that. But now that you said it, you could be right.
    > There are people who think their IQ increases proportionately with the
    > price of their computer (for the European friends: WebTv is a little
    > black box half the size of a VCR that gives me access to the internet
    > without a computer. Four years ago, I paid $150 for it....and I love
    > it.)


Eh. Even though you don't know how to properly quote on Usenet with it.


    > >BTW, Evelyn, together with Alex, we are now
    > > a trio. Do you think we could form a chorus
    > > for peace?
    > >It's going to take me a while to think of a
    > > response to *that* one.....
    > >--
    > >Best
    > >Greg
    > Now, that's a surprise. Do you really think?
    > Sandor

I think you are awfully thick.

--
Best
Greg

"Marie Lewis" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article , Derek McBryde
    > writes
    > >Ah at last we have the answer, from a totally fluent french speaker,
    > >who has lived in Paris and therefore knows about these things. If a
    > >french waiter chooses to be rude to you, it's your own fault.
    > Yes, it is your attitude, expressed or simply implied, that causes this
    > reaction.
    > > You
    > >can not have been exhibiting the correct attitude and are only getting
    > >what you deserve.
    > Indeed
    > >
    > >So how to exhibit the correct attitude? Easy - be totally
    > >subservient and know your place. You are a foreigner and he is
    > >French and therefore superior to you. He is not rude, you are just
    > >inferior and deserve no better.
    > No, be charming and pleasant. Easy for some of us.
    > >
    > >The minute you open your mouth you will show you are not french so
    > >don't be surprised if the reply is " I can speak english".
    > Never to me. In fact, French people seem embarrassed to speak to me in
    > English.
    > >
    > >And don't be surprised if the waiter is still rude. You're probably
    > >eating in the wrong establishment anyway so you are only getting what
    > >you deserve.
    > >
    > That could be so. Chacun àson goût! And some people have no taste and
    > should not frequent tasteful places.
    > N.B. the accents may not appear on some American screens.
    > >Derek
    > --
    > Marie Lewis


isnt marie lewis just puuuuurrrrrfect.

On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 03:56:34 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, Frank Lynch
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 03:52:46 GMT, in a clarity of expression
... resembling Cicero, Frank Clarke wrote:
...
... >On Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:07:07 +0000, Derek McBryde
... > wrote:
... >
... >
... >>You could start off with "Excusez moi, mais je ne parle qu'un petit
... >>peu de francais. On peut parler en anglais?" or " Parlez vous
... >>anglais?"
... >>
... >>The minute you open your mouth you will show you are not french so
... >>don't be surprised if the reply is " I can speak english".
... >
... >As with most of Europe, they can generally tag you as an American
... >before the first word. Having said a few words, the identification
... >is confirmed ;-) and most will go directly to English (often better
... >English than their American customer can manage). This was my
... >experience in Paris where all but one or two were charmingly Gallic.
...
... So, like, parlay voo franchise, gets you nowhere?

Oh yes, it does ! Franchise is a highly praised quality, rarely found.

======
Where are we going to and why are we in a handbasket ?