Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
Mar 5th 2003 | 5:59 am
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
Desmond Coughlan wrote:
>What's 'odor' ?
The smell of Americans.
PB
>What's 'odor' ?
The smell of Americans.
PB
Mar 5th 2003 | 10:42 am
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
le Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:58:10 -0000, dans l'article , Deep Floyd Mars a dit ...
>> >The french are rude by nature, especially french waiters. In most
>> >cases this is not aimed at the individual, they treat everyone foreign
>> >like that. In Paris especially, folk can be a bit uppity and rude
>> >even to other french people.
>> I have never found this to be true.
> I certainly have! I speak reasonable French, and I the first time I went
> there was with 2 Luxembourgers (who spoke perfect French) and 2 Parisian
> guys. I said after a couple of days that I thought the Parisians were
> fine, and they disputed this.
>
> Later on we all got some first-hand rude service when a waiter refused to
> wipe a table down that we sat at. I am told this is to be expected, and
> comes with the territory. Ce la vie!
Don't hurry back.
--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
>> >The french are rude by nature, especially french waiters. In most
>> >cases this is not aimed at the individual, they treat everyone foreign
>> >like that. In Paris especially, folk can be a bit uppity and rude
>> >even to other french people.
>> I have never found this to be true.
> I certainly have! I speak reasonable French, and I the first time I went
> there was with 2 Luxembourgers (who spoke perfect French) and 2 Parisian
> guys. I said after a couple of days that I thought the Parisians were
> fine, and they disputed this.
>
> Later on we all got some first-hand rude service when a waiter refused to
> wipe a table down that we sat at. I am told this is to be expected, and
> comes with the territory. Ce la vie!
Don't hurry back.
--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
Mar 5th 2003 | 10:42 am
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
le Wed, 5 Mar 2003 08:30:07 +0000, dans l'article , Marie Lewis a dit ...
>>I must say my perception (of French rudeness) has been the same, but it
>>would never stop me from going to France.
> I truly cannot understand this. I go to France frequently and have
> lived in Paris and I never get anything but excellent treatment and
> kindness. People go out of their way to help, they invite me to meals in
> their homes.
>
> Maybe my adoration of France and the French shines through?
No, really ? You adore France ? Wow ... you hide it well. ;-)
--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
>>I must say my perception (of French rudeness) has been the same, but it
>>would never stop me from going to France.
> I truly cannot understand this. I go to France frequently and have
> lived in Paris and I never get anything but excellent treatment and
> kindness. People go out of their way to help, they invite me to meals in
> their homes.
>
> Maybe my adoration of France and the French shines through?
No, really ? You adore France ? Wow ... you hide it well. ;-)
--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
Mar 5th 2003 | 12:07 pm
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
On Wed, 5 Mar 2003 08:28:06 +0000, Marie Lewis
wrote:
>In article , Deep Floyd Mars
> writes
>>> >The french are rude by nature, especially french waiters. In most
>>> >cases this is not aimed at the individual, they treat everyone foreign
>>> >like that. In Paris especially, folk can be a bit uppity and rude
>>> >even to other french people.
>>> I have never found this to be true.
>>I certainly have! I speak reasonable French, and I the first time I went
>>there was with 2 Luxembourgers (who spoke perfect French) and 2 Parisian
>>guys. I said after a couple of days that I thought the Parisians were fine,
>>and they disputed this.
>>Later on we all got some first-hand rude service when a waiter refused to
>>wipe a table down that we sat at. I am told this is to be expected, and
>>comes with the territory. Ce la vie!
>>---
>In fact, although my French is totally fluent, I do not deem language to
>be the criterion when judging people. It is a matter of attitude. You
>get what you deserve.
Ah at last we have the answer, from a totally fluent french speaker,
who has lived in Paris and therefore knows about these things. If a
french waiter chooses to be rude to you, it's your own fault. You
can not have been exhibiting the correct attitude and are only getting
what you deserve.
So how to exhibit the correct attitude? Easy - be totally
subservient and know your place. You are a foreigner and he is
French and therefore superior to you. He is not rude, you are just
inferior and deserve no better.
Seriously though, (most of) the french people I have met have been
very charming and very helpful .
Many french people speak excellent english. However, they seem to
be pleased if you make even a little attempt to speak french. So you
could learn a couple of french words and get your oar in first.
Don't learn too many in case they think you speak french, 'cos you
won't understand the reply.
You could start off with "Excusez moi, mais je ne parle qu'un petit
peu de francais. On peut parler en anglais?" or " Parlez vous
anglais?"
The minute you open your mouth you will show you are not french so
don't be surprised if the reply is " I can speak english".
And don't be surprised if the waiter is still rude. You're probably
eating in the wrong establishment anyway so you are only getting what
you deserve.
Derek
wrote:
>In article , Deep Floyd Mars
> writes
>>> >The french are rude by nature, especially french waiters. In most
>>> >cases this is not aimed at the individual, they treat everyone foreign
>>> >like that. In Paris especially, folk can be a bit uppity and rude
>>> >even to other french people.
>>> I have never found this to be true.
>>I certainly have! I speak reasonable French, and I the first time I went
>>there was with 2 Luxembourgers (who spoke perfect French) and 2 Parisian
>>guys. I said after a couple of days that I thought the Parisians were fine,
>>and they disputed this.
>>Later on we all got some first-hand rude service when a waiter refused to
>>wipe a table down that we sat at. I am told this is to be expected, and
>>comes with the territory. Ce la vie!
>>---
>In fact, although my French is totally fluent, I do not deem language to
>be the criterion when judging people. It is a matter of attitude. You
>get what you deserve.
Ah at last we have the answer, from a totally fluent french speaker,
who has lived in Paris and therefore knows about these things. If a
french waiter chooses to be rude to you, it's your own fault. You
can not have been exhibiting the correct attitude and are only getting
what you deserve.
So how to exhibit the correct attitude? Easy - be totally
subservient and know your place. You are a foreigner and he is
French and therefore superior to you. He is not rude, you are just
inferior and deserve no better.
Seriously though, (most of) the french people I have met have been
very charming and very helpful .
Many french people speak excellent english. However, they seem to
be pleased if you make even a little attempt to speak french. So you
could learn a couple of french words and get your oar in first.
Don't learn too many in case they think you speak french, 'cos you
won't understand the reply.
You could start off with "Excusez moi, mais je ne parle qu'un petit
peu de francais. On peut parler en anglais?" or " Parlez vous
anglais?"
The minute you open your mouth you will show you are not french so
don't be surprised if the reply is " I can speak english".
And don't be surprised if the waiter is still rude. You're probably
eating in the wrong establishment anyway so you are only getting what
you deserve.
Derek
Mar 5th 2003 | 12:10 pm
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
If I may be so bold ...
le Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:07:07 +0000, dans l'article , Derek McBryde a dit ...
{ snip }
> Ah at last we have the answer, from a totally fluent french speaker,
> who has lived in Paris and therefore knows about these things. If a
> french waiter chooses to be rude to you, it's your own fault. You
> can not have been exhibiting the correct attitude and are only getting
> what you deserve.
>
> So how to exhibit the correct attitude?
As a native French speaker, my advice is to treat Parisien waiters like
other people you meet. Remember that you will meet nice waitors (and
waitresses ... drool ...), just like in other areas of life. Just don't
come to news:rec.travel.europe whingeing that the 'French are rude'.
HTH.
--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
le Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:07:07 +0000, dans l'article , Derek McBryde a dit ...
{ snip }
> Ah at last we have the answer, from a totally fluent french speaker,
> who has lived in Paris and therefore knows about these things. If a
> french waiter chooses to be rude to you, it's your own fault. You
> can not have been exhibiting the correct attitude and are only getting
> what you deserve.
>
> So how to exhibit the correct attitude?
As a native French speaker, my advice is to treat Parisien waiters like
other people you meet. Remember that you will meet nice waitors (and
waitresses ... drool ...), just like in other areas of life. Just don't
come to news:rec.travel.europe whingeing that the 'French are rude'.
HTH.
--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
Mar 5th 2003 | 12:21 pm
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
le Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:22:57 +0000, dans l'article , Derek McBryde a dit ...
{ snip }
>>Don't hurry back.
> Quod erat demonstrandum.
_Age quod agis_.
--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
{ snip }
>>Don't hurry back.
> Quod erat demonstrandum.
_Age quod agis_.
--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
Mar 5th 2003 | 12:22 pm
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
On Wed, 5 Mar 2003 23:42:07 +0000, Desmond Coughlan
wrote:
>le Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:58:10 -0000, dans l'article , Deep Floyd Mars a dit ...
>>> >The french are rude by nature, especially french waiters. In most
>>> >cases this is not aimed at the individual, they treat everyone foreign
>>> >like that. In Paris especially, folk can be a bit uppity and rude
>>> >even to other french people.
>>> I have never found this to be true.
>> I certainly have! I speak reasonable French, and I the first time I went
>> there was with 2 Luxembourgers (who spoke perfect French) and 2 Parisian
>> guys. I said after a couple of days that I thought the Parisians were
>> fine, and they disputed this.
>>
>> Later on we all got some first-hand rude service when a waiter refused to
>> wipe a table down that we sat at. I am told this is to be expected, and
>> comes with the territory. Ce la vie!
>Don't hurry back.
Quod erat demonstrandum.
wrote:
>le Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:58:10 -0000, dans l'article , Deep Floyd Mars a dit ...
>>> >The french are rude by nature, especially french waiters. In most
>>> >cases this is not aimed at the individual, they treat everyone foreign
>>> >like that. In Paris especially, folk can be a bit uppity and rude
>>> >even to other french people.
>>> I have never found this to be true.
>> I certainly have! I speak reasonable French, and I the first time I went
>> there was with 2 Luxembourgers (who spoke perfect French) and 2 Parisian
>> guys. I said after a couple of days that I thought the Parisians were
>> fine, and they disputed this.
>>
>> Later on we all got some first-hand rude service when a waiter refused to
>> wipe a table down that we sat at. I am told this is to be expected, and
>> comes with the territory. Ce la vie!
>Don't hurry back.
Quod erat demonstrandum.
Mar 5th 2003 | 12:23 pm
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
le Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:26:35 +0000, dans l'article , Derek McBryde a dit ...
>>As a native French speaker, my advice is to treat Parisien waiters like
>>other people you meet. Remember that you will meet nice waitors (and
>>waitresses ... drool ...), just like in other areas of life. Just don't
>>come to news:rec.travel.europe whingeing that the 'French are rude'.
> Yessir! Sorry Sir!
)
S'all right ... just don't do it again, right ??
--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
>>As a native French speaker, my advice is to treat Parisien waiters like
>>other people you meet. Remember that you will meet nice waitors (and
>>waitresses ... drool ...), just like in other areas of life. Just don't
>>come to news:rec.travel.europe whingeing that the 'French are rude'.
> Yessir! Sorry Sir!
)S'all right ... just don't do it again, right ??
--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
Mar 5th 2003 | 12:26 pm
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
>As a native French speaker, my advice is to treat Parisien waiters like
>other people you meet. Remember that you will meet nice waitors (and
>waitresses ... drool ...), just like in other areas of life. Just don't
>come to news:rec.travel.europe whingeing that the 'French are rude'.
Yessir! Sorry Sir!)
>other people you meet. Remember that you will meet nice waitors (and
>waitresses ... drool ...), just like in other areas of life. Just don't
>come to news:rec.travel.europe whingeing that the 'French are rude'.
Yessir! Sorry Sir!
)
Mar 5th 2003 | 12:29 pm
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
le Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:30:38 +0000, dans l'article , Derek McBryde a dit ...
>>_Age quod agis_.
> Help what's the latin for hehe)
_Risorius_ ? ;-)
--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
>>_Age quod agis_.
> Help what's the latin for hehe
)_Risorius_ ? ;-)
--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
Mar 5th 2003 | 12:30 pm
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
>_Age quod agis_.
Help what's the latin for hehe)
Help what's the latin for hehe
)
Mar 5th 2003 | 3:19 pm
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
Marie Lewis wrote:
>
> In article , mimi
> writes
> >I must say my perception (of French rudeness) has been the same, but it
> >would never stop me from going to France.
>
> I truly cannot understand this. I go to France frequently and have
> lived in Paris and I never get anything but excellent treatment and
> kindness. People go out of their way to help, they invite me to meals in
> their homes.
>
> Maybe my adoration of France and the French shines through?
More likely, you use a little common courtesy in dealing with the people
you meet. I, too, find it difficult to understand this myth of French
"rudeness" (which I've heard from people whose opinions I would
ordinarily respect). Au contraire, I've had French people go out of
their way to be helpful, when I've needed it. (But of course, if you go
anywhere EXPECTING to be ill-treated, it probably shows up in a
defensively belligerent attitude, and people respond in kind.)
> --
> Marie Lewis
>
> In article , mimi
> writes
> >I must say my perception (of French rudeness) has been the same, but it
> >would never stop me from going to France.
>
> I truly cannot understand this. I go to France frequently and have
> lived in Paris and I never get anything but excellent treatment and
> kindness. People go out of their way to help, they invite me to meals in
> their homes.
>
> Maybe my adoration of France and the French shines through?
More likely, you use a little common courtesy in dealing with the people
you meet. I, too, find it difficult to understand this myth of French
"rudeness" (which I've heard from people whose opinions I would
ordinarily respect). Au contraire, I've had French people go out of
their way to be helpful, when I've needed it. (But of course, if you go
anywhere EXPECTING to be ill-treated, it probably shows up in a
defensively belligerent attitude, and people respond in kind.)
> --
> Marie Lewis
Mar 5th 2003 | 4:08 pm
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
> (But of course, if you go
> anywhere EXPECTING to be ill-treated, it probably shows up in a
> defensively belligerent attitude, and people respond in kind.)
Rather like rec.travel.europe, eh, Evelyn...!!!???
--
Best
Greg ;o)
> (But of course, if you go
> anywhere EXPECTING to be ill-treated, it probably shows up in a
> defensively belligerent attitude, and people respond in kind.)
Rather like rec.travel.europe, eh, Evelyn...!!!???
--
Best
Greg ;o)
Mar 5th 2003 | 7:44 pm
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
gregory morrow, in reading through the oft hilarious and at times just
downright laughable posts of "the lady with the missing diva" and the "lewis
with the marie" finds that they have in the words of the bard, right well
stepped in it :
"Gregory Morrow" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
> > (But of course, if you go
> > anywhere EXPECTING to be ill-treated, it probably shows up in a
> > defensively belligerent attitude, and people respond in kind.)
> Rather like rec.travel.europe, eh, Evelyn...!!!???
> --
> Best
> Greg ;o)
jolly good show monsieur gregory. don't you just have this picture in your
head that is kind of like those magritte paintings that have a door that is
labeled apple or some such thing. often when reading these posts i can only
wonder at the surreal world these people have constructed for themselves. i
say fine for them and hey maybe we should join them because in this
thoroghly contrived and well built world they are oh so right and oh so good
and oh so very very pretty.
signed hobart who of course is the prettiest of them all
downright laughable posts of "the lady with the missing diva" and the "lewis
with the marie" finds that they have in the words of the bard, right well
stepped in it :
"Gregory Morrow" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
> > (But of course, if you go
> > anywhere EXPECTING to be ill-treated, it probably shows up in a
> > defensively belligerent attitude, and people respond in kind.)
> Rather like rec.travel.europe, eh, Evelyn...!!!???
> --
> Best
> Greg ;o)
jolly good show monsieur gregory. don't you just have this picture in your
head that is kind of like those magritte paintings that have a door that is
labeled apple or some such thing. often when reading these posts i can only
wonder at the surreal world these people have constructed for themselves. i
say fine for them and hey maybe we should join them because in this
thoroghly contrived and well built world they are oh so right and oh so good
and oh so very very pretty.
signed hobart who of course is the prettiest of them all
Mar 5th 2003 | 7:46 pm
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Treatment of Tourists in Paris/ Hotel Jarry
In article , Derek McBryde
writes
>Ah at last we have the answer, from a totally fluent french speaker,
>who has lived in Paris and therefore knows about these things. If a
>french waiter chooses to be rude to you, it's your own fault.
Yes, it is your attitude, expressed or simply implied, that causes this
reaction.
> You
>can not have been exhibiting the correct attitude and are only getting
>what you deserve.
Indeed
>So how to exhibit the correct attitude? Easy - be totally
>subservient and know your place. You are a foreigner and he is
>French and therefore superior to you. He is not rude, you are just
>inferior and deserve no better.
No, be charming and pleasant. Easy for some of us.
>The minute you open your mouth you will show you are not french so
>don't be surprised if the reply is " I can speak english".
Never to me. In fact, French people seem embarrassed to speak to me in
English.
>And don't be surprised if the waiter is still rude. You're probably
>eating in the wrong establishment anyway so you are only getting what
>you deserve.
That could be so. Chacun àson goût! And some people have no taste and
should not frequent tasteful places.
N.B. the accents may not appear on some American screens.
>Derek
--
Marie Lewis
writes
>Ah at last we have the answer, from a totally fluent french speaker,
>who has lived in Paris and therefore knows about these things. If a
>french waiter chooses to be rude to you, it's your own fault.
Yes, it is your attitude, expressed or simply implied, that causes this
reaction.
> You
>can not have been exhibiting the correct attitude and are only getting
>what you deserve.
Indeed
>So how to exhibit the correct attitude? Easy - be totally
>subservient and know your place. You are a foreigner and he is
>French and therefore superior to you. He is not rude, you are just
>inferior and deserve no better.
No, be charming and pleasant. Easy for some of us.
>The minute you open your mouth you will show you are not french so
>don't be surprised if the reply is " I can speak english".
Never to me. In fact, French people seem embarrassed to speak to me in
English.
>And don't be surprised if the waiter is still rude. You're probably
>eating in the wrong establishment anyway so you are only getting what
>you deserve.
That could be so. Chacun àson goût! And some people have no taste and
should not frequent tasteful places.
N.B. the accents may not appear on some American screens.
>Derek
--
Marie Lewis
