Teenagers in Rome
Sep 23rd 2004, 10:12 am
#91
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
Mxsmanic wrote:
>
>>Since you haven't been there how can you judge?
>
>
> Easily: I just look at the photos. If they don't do the place justice,
> then they must differ from the real thing.
Photographs fail to convey the scope of the place. No single photograph
can convey the entirety of the ancient city. Visiting the site, one
walks through ruins representing every strata of society and every
activity of daily life. That's a powerful experience that no photograph
can replicate.
Karen Selwyn
>
>>Since you haven't been there how can you judge?
>
>
> Easily: I just look at the photos. If they don't do the place justice,
> then they must differ from the real thing.
Photographs fail to convey the scope of the place. No single photograph
can convey the entirety of the ancient city. Visiting the site, one
walks through ruins representing every strata of society and every
activity of daily life. That's a powerful experience that no photograph
can replicate.
Karen Selwyn
Sep 23rd 2004, 12:36 pm
#92
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:42:22 +0200, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:
>minelli374 writes:
>> They aren't but not being familiar with Italian increase misunderstanding
>> and dangerous.
>What are the specific dangers?
>> Sure, but I suggest you to visit Rome before saying that.
>I've never had any desire to visit Italy. If it were such a nice place,
>my ancestors never would have left.
I know a lot of people whose ancestors left Italy, but it wasn't
because Italy wasn't a nice place, but that so much the nice stuff was
hogged by the big landowning families. Now that the land belongs to
the people who work it, you don't see many people leaving.
When I first saw Italy, I wondered how it could ever have been a poor
country. The countryside looks like a cornucopia of abundance, with
hardwood groves, vineyards, olive groves, meadows, and cultivated
fields covering nearly every hillside. My ancestors left Ireland
because of rural poverty, but rural Ireland tends to be rocky and
boggy, and you can see the problem.
Rural Italy was really little removed from the middle ages until after
World War II. The peasant were treated more or less like serfs, with
marriages ordered by the landowner (of his factor), demands for the
consignment of chickens, rabbits, and eggs on a regular basis, and an
almost total lack of freedom. A few weeks ago, a woman told me that
once, when her family had almost nothing to eat, her father brought
the obligatory rabbit to his "feudal lord". The landowner took the
rabbit and immediately tossed it to his dog.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
wrote:
>minelli374 writes:
>> They aren't but not being familiar with Italian increase misunderstanding
>> and dangerous.
>What are the specific dangers?
>> Sure, but I suggest you to visit Rome before saying that.
>I've never had any desire to visit Italy. If it were such a nice place,
>my ancestors never would have left.
I know a lot of people whose ancestors left Italy, but it wasn't
because Italy wasn't a nice place, but that so much the nice stuff was
hogged by the big landowning families. Now that the land belongs to
the people who work it, you don't see many people leaving.
When I first saw Italy, I wondered how it could ever have been a poor
country. The countryside looks like a cornucopia of abundance, with
hardwood groves, vineyards, olive groves, meadows, and cultivated
fields covering nearly every hillside. My ancestors left Ireland
because of rural poverty, but rural Ireland tends to be rocky and
boggy, and you can see the problem.
Rural Italy was really little removed from the middle ages until after
World War II. The peasant were treated more or less like serfs, with
marriages ordered by the landowner (of his factor), demands for the
consignment of chickens, rabbits, and eggs on a regular basis, and an
almost total lack of freedom. A few weeks ago, a woman told me that
once, when her family had almost nothing to eat, her father brought
the obligatory rabbit to his "feudal lord". The landowner took the
rabbit and immediately tossed it to his dog.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
Sep 23rd 2004, 12:49 pm
#93
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:36:30 +0200, B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote:
>Rural Italy was really little removed from the middle ages until after
>World War II. The peasant were treated more or less like serfs, with
>marriages ordered by the landowner (of his factor), demands for the
>consignment of chickens, rabbits, and eggs on a regular basis, and an
>almost total lack of freedom. A few weeks ago, a woman told me that
>once, when her family had almost nothing to eat, her father brought
>the obligatory rabbit to his "feudal lord". The landowner took the
>rabbit and immediately tossed it to his dog.
and then set the dog on the woman?
>Rural Italy was really little removed from the middle ages until after
>World War II. The peasant were treated more or less like serfs, with
>marriages ordered by the landowner (of his factor), demands for the
>consignment of chickens, rabbits, and eggs on a regular basis, and an
>almost total lack of freedom. A few weeks ago, a woman told me that
>once, when her family had almost nothing to eat, her father brought
>the obligatory rabbit to his "feudal lord". The landowner took the
>rabbit and immediately tossed it to his dog.
and then set the dog on the woman?
Sep 23rd 2004, 5:08 pm
#94
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
Q <[email protected]> wrote:
> He says one old building/ruin is one too many. History
> as such is a no go area.
I probably do not understand teenagers' psichology, but I think that
Rome has some exceptional buildings, so breathtaking that I do not
consider them as historic memories, but simply things to be seen. Take
St. Peters', the largest church in the world - and still not as
oppressive as it could be, especially on a sunny day. Take Piazza di
Spagna: this is scenography made real in stone.
However, if the boy doesn't appreciate history and architecture, I hope
he will at least appreciate Italian food. If even his taste is spoiled,
you may consider a soccer match (Rome has two teams, that alternate each
Sunday in stadio olimpico). Again, I am not into sports, but I
understand that soccer is lived in a different way in Italy and in
Britain, and he may find the thing interesting.
Above all, if you find being the only two foreigners in a sold out Lazio
curve, the thing may get really interesting :-)
--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
Home page: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
(musicologia pratica)
> He says one old building/ruin is one too many. History
> as such is a no go area.
I probably do not understand teenagers' psichology, but I think that
Rome has some exceptional buildings, so breathtaking that I do not
consider them as historic memories, but simply things to be seen. Take
St. Peters', the largest church in the world - and still not as
oppressive as it could be, especially on a sunny day. Take Piazza di
Spagna: this is scenography made real in stone.
However, if the boy doesn't appreciate history and architecture, I hope
he will at least appreciate Italian food. If even his taste is spoiled,
you may consider a soccer match (Rome has two teams, that alternate each
Sunday in stadio olimpico). Again, I am not into sports, but I
understand that soccer is lived in a different way in Italy and in
Britain, and he may find the thing interesting.
Above all, if you find being the only two foreigners in a sold out Lazio
curve, the thing may get really interesting :-)
--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
Home page: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
(musicologia pratica)
Sep 23rd 2004, 6:23 pm
#95
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
Luca Logi writes:
> I probably do not understand teenagers' psichology ...
You went directly from infancy to adulthood?
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> I probably do not understand teenagers' psichology ...
You went directly from infancy to adulthood?
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Sep 23rd 2004, 6:45 pm
#96
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Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
> Juliana L Holm writes:
> > This last suggestion is, in my opinion, Golden.
> Nobody cares about ancient Rome, though, at least in the U.S. He be
> more the envy of his classmates for seeing a soccer game than for seeing
> some decaying ancient Roman town.
They kill people in that stadium. Last three games were held with closed
door because someone from the VIP tribune throw a object that hit the
referee and the match was interrupted.
Not a good place for a boy.
paola
news:[email protected]...
> Juliana L Holm writes:
> > This last suggestion is, in my opinion, Golden.
> Nobody cares about ancient Rome, though, at least in the U.S. He be
> more the envy of his classmates for seeing a soccer game than for seeing
> some decaying ancient Roman town.
They kill people in that stadium. Last three games were held with closed
door because someone from the VIP tribune throw a object that hit the
referee and the match was interrupted.
Not a good place for a boy.
paola
Sep 23rd 2004, 6:45 pm
#97
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
"Q" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
> Unfortunately his history teacher is a lot to blame for his lack of
interest
> in history.
Why don't you put him a language school for a week?
They organize interesting activities in the afternoon and he will learn some
language.
paola
news:[email protected]...
> Unfortunately his history teacher is a lot to blame for his lack of
interest
> in history.
Why don't you put him a language school for a week?
They organize interesting activities in the afternoon and he will learn some
language.
paola
Sep 23rd 2004, 6:45 pm
#98
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
> minelli374 writes:
> > They aren't but not being familiar with Italian increase
misunderstanding
> > and dangerous.
> What are the specific dangers?
Bad people, unpolite, rude and narrow-minded.
> I've never had any desire to visit Italy. If it were such a nice place,
> my ancestors never would have left.
Maybe they lived in a worst time and in a worst place.
paola
news:[email protected]...
> minelli374 writes:
> > They aren't but not being familiar with Italian increase
misunderstanding
> > and dangerous.
> What are the specific dangers?
Bad people, unpolite, rude and narrow-minded.
> I've never had any desire to visit Italy. If it were such a nice place,
> my ancestors never would have left.
Maybe they lived in a worst time and in a worst place.
paola
Sep 23rd 2004, 6:46 pm
#99
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
"Karen Selwyn" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:nhx4d.352863$sh.20092@fed1read06...
> Photographs fail to convey the scope of the place. No single photograph
> can convey the entirety of the ancient city. Visiting the site, one
> walks through ruins representing every strata of society and every
> activity of daily life. That's a powerful experience that no photograph
> can replicate.
I agree. You can't even judge a painting by its photograph, I've learned my
self looking at Van Gogh's.
You cannot immagine the impression that such big walls, obeliscus,
pantheon,... evocate when you stand in front of them.
paola
news:nhx4d.352863$sh.20092@fed1read06...
> Photographs fail to convey the scope of the place. No single photograph
> can convey the entirety of the ancient city. Visiting the site, one
> walks through ruins representing every strata of society and every
> activity of daily life. That's a powerful experience that no photograph
> can replicate.
I agree. You can't even judge a painting by its photograph, I've learned my
self looking at Van Gogh's.
You cannot immagine the impression that such big walls, obeliscus,
pantheon,... evocate when you stand in front of them.
paola
Sep 23rd 2004, 6:57 pm
#100
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:45:55 GMT, "minelli374" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
>news:[email protected].. .
>> minelli374 writes:
>> > They aren't but not being familiar with Italian increase
>misunderstanding
>> > and dangerous.
>> What are the specific dangers?
>Bad people, unpolite, rude and narrow-minded.
He means in Italy, not here on rte.
wrote:
>"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
>news:[email protected].. .
>> minelli374 writes:
>> > They aren't but not being familiar with Italian increase
>misunderstanding
>> > and dangerous.
>> What are the specific dangers?
>Bad people, unpolite, rude and narrow-minded.
He means in Italy, not here on rte.
Sep 23rd 2004, 7:35 pm
#101
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
minelli374 writes:
> Bad people, unpolite, rude and narrow-minded.
Bad in what way? Rudeness and narrow-mindedness in themselves are not
dangers.
> Maybe they lived in a worst time and in a worst place.
Maybe, but I don't really care today.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Bad people, unpolite, rude and narrow-minded.
Bad in what way? Rudeness and narrow-mindedness in themselves are not
dangers.
> Maybe they lived in a worst time and in a worst place.
Maybe, but I don't really care today.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Sep 23rd 2004, 8:06 pm
#102
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
"Q" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Unfortunately his history teacher is a lot to blame for his lack of interest
> in history.
>
> To answer other questions, he is capable of reading but getting this to
> extend past a skateboarding/snowboarding/soccer/baseball magazine is a big
> ask.
>
> As I previously said, I dont really need (or want) parenting or
> psychological advice. There is no value at all in assuming my motivations or
> criticising them. I will simply skip over these contributions so you may as
> well keep them to yourselves. It is not simpy a matter of taking a 14 year
> old on a 3-week ski trip of his choice then forcing him to suffer through a
> week in Rome. There are legitimate reasons for what is happening.
>
> Having said that, I am still interested in helpful hints on how to deal with
> things when we are there.
Well, to some extent, you've come to the wrong place. This is a forum
for discussing traveling for people who actually like traveling. You
have on your hands someone who doesn't want to do apparently any of
the many and varied things that the folks here do like to do.
That said, this is not exactly a new topic around here. Past
suggestions have centered a bit upon empowering the kid to entertain
himself to a great degree, the specifics of which are going to be
more known to you than to us. Give him some choice in what is
visited each day. This of course may have to include fairly dull
places like water parks, etc.
A friend of mine is a teacher and takes kids on trips during the
summer. His usual plan is a balance of organized and unorganized
activity. Even just "hanging out" at a large park can help. But the
kids are with other kids and they have some interest in history, which
is why they signed up for the trip to begin with.
The "Ben Hur" movies before the trip might help a bit too. Oh, by
the way, in Italy they have this stuff called "gelatto".....
> Unfortunately his history teacher is a lot to blame for his lack of interest
> in history.
>
> To answer other questions, he is capable of reading but getting this to
> extend past a skateboarding/snowboarding/soccer/baseball magazine is a big
> ask.
>
> As I previously said, I dont really need (or want) parenting or
> psychological advice. There is no value at all in assuming my motivations or
> criticising them. I will simply skip over these contributions so you may as
> well keep them to yourselves. It is not simpy a matter of taking a 14 year
> old on a 3-week ski trip of his choice then forcing him to suffer through a
> week in Rome. There are legitimate reasons for what is happening.
>
> Having said that, I am still interested in helpful hints on how to deal with
> things when we are there.
Well, to some extent, you've come to the wrong place. This is a forum
for discussing traveling for people who actually like traveling. You
have on your hands someone who doesn't want to do apparently any of
the many and varied things that the folks here do like to do.
That said, this is not exactly a new topic around here. Past
suggestions have centered a bit upon empowering the kid to entertain
himself to a great degree, the specifics of which are going to be
more known to you than to us. Give him some choice in what is
visited each day. This of course may have to include fairly dull
places like water parks, etc.
A friend of mine is a teacher and takes kids on trips during the
summer. His usual plan is a balance of organized and unorganized
activity. Even just "hanging out" at a large park can help. But the
kids are with other kids and they have some interest in history, which
is why they signed up for the trip to begin with.
The "Ben Hur" movies before the trip might help a bit too. Oh, by
the way, in Italy they have this stuff called "gelatto".....
Sep 23rd 2004, 9:10 pm
#103
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:45:55 GMT, "minelli374" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
>news:[email protected].. .
>> minelli374 writes:
>> > They aren't but not being familiar with Italian increase
>misunderstanding
>> > and dangerous.
>> What are the specific dangers?
>Bad people, unpolite, rude and narrow-minded.
I have never encountered any rude people in Rome. I have actually met
many very kind people.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
wrote:
>"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
>news:[email protected].. .
>> minelli374 writes:
>> > They aren't but not being familiar with Italian increase
>misunderstanding
>> > and dangerous.
>> What are the specific dangers?
>Bad people, unpolite, rude and narrow-minded.
I have never encountered any rude people in Rome. I have actually met
many very kind people.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
Sep 23rd 2004, 9:35 pm
#104
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
"Q" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
> Unfortunately his history teacher is a lot to blame for his lack of
interest
> in history.
Rome's zoo is one of the biggest in Europe.
paola
news:[email protected]...
> Unfortunately his history teacher is a lot to blame for his lack of
interest
> in history.
Rome's zoo is one of the biggest in Europe.
paola
Sep 23rd 2004, 9:59 pm
#105
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:45:55 GMT, "minelli374" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
>>news:[email protected]. ..
>>> minelli374 writes:
>>> > They aren't but not being familiar with Italian increase
>>misunderstanding
>>> > and dangerous.
>>> What are the specific dangers?
>>Bad people, unpolite, rude and narrow-minded.
>
> I have never encountered any rude people in Rome. I have actually met
> many very kind people.
I haven't either. People in Rome have been nothing but pleasant to me.
A bit of the north/south divide showing?! ;o)
Emilia
news:[email protected]:
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:45:55 GMT, "minelli374" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
>>news:[email protected]. ..
>>> minelli374 writes:
>>> > They aren't but not being familiar with Italian increase
>>misunderstanding
>>> > and dangerous.
>>> What are the specific dangers?
>>Bad people, unpolite, rude and narrow-minded.
>
> I have never encountered any rude people in Rome. I have actually met
> many very kind people.
I haven't either. People in Rome have been nothing but pleasant to me.
A bit of the north/south divide showing?! ;o)
Emilia