Teenagers in Rome
Sep 22nd 2004, 5:56 pm
#76
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
Sacha wrote:
> On 22/9/04 15:33, in article [email protected], "jenn"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Sacha wrote:
>>>On 21/9/04 21:15, in article [email protected], "jenn"
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>Sacha wrote:
>>>>>On 21/9/04 19:27, in article [email protected], "jenn"
>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>Sacha wrote:
>>>>><snip>
>>>>>>>And in our case we'd ALL enjoyed the skiing and son was just being a
>>>>>>>normal
>>>>>>>teenager - he also refused to visit Ephesus when we were in Turkey but
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>was on a sailing trip along that coastline, the rest of which he'd
>>>>>>>absolutely loved! We weren't doing a sightseeing tour as such on either
>>>>>>>occasion because we tend not to do that kind of holiday.
>>>>>>ah the joys of vacationing with teens LOL --
>>>>>Precisely what the OP was getting at I'd say.
>>>>well yeah and I gave him some good advice including not wasting pearls
>>>>on swine -- teens who are not pleasant to travel with should not be
>>>>taken wonderful places like say Paris -- and why should one have to put
>>>>up with ugliness on the way to same place he enjoys?
>>>>the world is full of jerks whose parents spent a lot of time struggling
>>>>to entertain them
>>>I don't know many parents, including myself, who think of their children as
>>>swine.
>>>But the world is indeed, full of jerks. Including apparently, this group.
>>you are perhaps unfamiliar with the phrase 'pearls before swine' and
>>thus take umbrage because of your linquistic skills?
>
>
> You are perhaps just rather rude. On second thoughts - no 'perhaps' about
> it.
>
>>I concede that a European parent dragging a snotty teen to Paris on a
>>vacation is not making the same sort of investment that an American
>>parent would be -- and thus there is more excuse for wasting the effort
>>- the effort being so much less. [and the inconvenience of finding
>>supervision at home factors in] But a teen who has to be carefully
>>managed and entertained might be better off left at home if that can be
>>done. Providing treats and expensive opportunities for ungrateful jerks
>>is what helps them grow from swinish teens to swinish adults. The world
>>is too full of overindulgent children.
>
>
> The parents of this particular child have explained their reasons for having
> their child with them on this particular leg of their journey and asked for
> assistance. All you've done is sneer.
>
> Assuming that you mean 'indulged children', one can only assume that your
> parents spoiled you dreadfully.
darling -- I posted all sorts of good advice about both what teens tend
to like and how to organize the trip so that the teen buys into it -- go
reread the thread -- but the advice to reconsider taking snotty teens on
privledged trips is also perfectly good advice
the 'explanation' of why the parents need to bow and scrape before this
particular teen who will already have several weeks organized around his
own needs raises the question more profoundly than the initial query --
of course this 'explanation' appears far into the thread
> On 22/9/04 15:33, in article [email protected], "jenn"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Sacha wrote:
>>>On 21/9/04 21:15, in article [email protected], "jenn"
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>Sacha wrote:
>>>>>On 21/9/04 19:27, in article [email protected], "jenn"
>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>Sacha wrote:
>>>>><snip>
>>>>>>>And in our case we'd ALL enjoyed the skiing and son was just being a
>>>>>>>normal
>>>>>>>teenager - he also refused to visit Ephesus when we were in Turkey but
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>was on a sailing trip along that coastline, the rest of which he'd
>>>>>>>absolutely loved! We weren't doing a sightseeing tour as such on either
>>>>>>>occasion because we tend not to do that kind of holiday.
>>>>>>ah the joys of vacationing with teens LOL --
>>>>>Precisely what the OP was getting at I'd say.
>>>>well yeah and I gave him some good advice including not wasting pearls
>>>>on swine -- teens who are not pleasant to travel with should not be
>>>>taken wonderful places like say Paris -- and why should one have to put
>>>>up with ugliness on the way to same place he enjoys?
>>>>the world is full of jerks whose parents spent a lot of time struggling
>>>>to entertain them
>>>I don't know many parents, including myself, who think of their children as
>>>swine.
>>>But the world is indeed, full of jerks. Including apparently, this group.
>>you are perhaps unfamiliar with the phrase 'pearls before swine' and
>>thus take umbrage because of your linquistic skills?
>
>
> You are perhaps just rather rude. On second thoughts - no 'perhaps' about
> it.
>
>>I concede that a European parent dragging a snotty teen to Paris on a
>>vacation is not making the same sort of investment that an American
>>parent would be -- and thus there is more excuse for wasting the effort
>>- the effort being so much less. [and the inconvenience of finding
>>supervision at home factors in] But a teen who has to be carefully
>>managed and entertained might be better off left at home if that can be
>>done. Providing treats and expensive opportunities for ungrateful jerks
>>is what helps them grow from swinish teens to swinish adults. The world
>>is too full of overindulgent children.
>
>
> The parents of this particular child have explained their reasons for having
> their child with them on this particular leg of their journey and asked for
> assistance. All you've done is sneer.
>
> Assuming that you mean 'indulged children', one can only assume that your
> parents spoiled you dreadfully.
darling -- I posted all sorts of good advice about both what teens tend
to like and how to organize the trip so that the teen buys into it -- go
reread the thread -- but the advice to reconsider taking snotty teens on
privledged trips is also perfectly good advice
the 'explanation' of why the parents need to bow and scrape before this
particular teen who will already have several weeks organized around his
own needs raises the question more profoundly than the initial query --
of course this 'explanation' appears far into the thread
Sep 22nd 2004, 6:06 pm
#77
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
On 22/9/04 7:21, in article [email protected], "Q" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Thank you for these responses. I should have added that he equates old
> things with museums. He says one old building/ruin is one too many. History
> as such is a no go area.
>
<snip>
This makes me think of something I read when taking my children around bits
of Italy and Greece and Turkey. A woman in a similar plight wrote that when
she told her child they were going to look at whatever site/museum/sculpture
it was that day, he said "Oh, Mummy, not *more* ladies with no clothes on."
;-)
I do think that for your son, someone needs to put flesh on the bones of
history for him and make him see that history is about *people*. People who,
just like you and just like him, lived, breathed, ate, slept, hoped,
thought, planned etc.
Rent 'Ben Hur' and 'Gladiator', perhaps, just as a taster? Then he can see
for himself.
Without the people, there would be no history. Let him read about and see
pics of Pompei, for example.
I know there's a built-in resistance at that age to ALL parental suggestions
but is there a teacher at school who could offer him some inspired
information on those long-ago people? With a bit of prompting from you,
could that teacher ask him to do a special report for his class when he
returns home which will give him a reason for taking a serious interest?
Could the teacher run a short session on Roman history, focusing a bit on
the fact that your son is going to be so fortunate as to see it for himself,
making him - just a bit - the envy of his classmates?
--
Sacha
wrote:
> Thank you for these responses. I should have added that he equates old
> things with museums. He says one old building/ruin is one too many. History
> as such is a no go area.
>
<snip>
This makes me think of something I read when taking my children around bits
of Italy and Greece and Turkey. A woman in a similar plight wrote that when
she told her child they were going to look at whatever site/museum/sculpture
it was that day, he said "Oh, Mummy, not *more* ladies with no clothes on."
;-)
I do think that for your son, someone needs to put flesh on the bones of
history for him and make him see that history is about *people*. People who,
just like you and just like him, lived, breathed, ate, slept, hoped,
thought, planned etc.
Rent 'Ben Hur' and 'Gladiator', perhaps, just as a taster? Then he can see
for himself.
Without the people, there would be no history. Let him read about and see
pics of Pompei, for example.
I know there's a built-in resistance at that age to ALL parental suggestions
but is there a teacher at school who could offer him some inspired
information on those long-ago people? With a bit of prompting from you,
could that teacher ask him to do a special report for his class when he
returns home which will give him a reason for taking a serious interest?
Could the teacher run a short session on Roman history, focusing a bit on
the fact that your son is going to be so fortunate as to see it for himself,
making him - just a bit - the envy of his classmates?
--
Sacha
Sep 22nd 2004, 6:13 pm
#78
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
On 22/9/04 18:56, in article [email protected], "jenn"
<[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
> darling<snip>
Have we met? I think not,
so let's watch the good manners, shall you?
--
Sacha
<[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
> darling<snip>
Have we met? I think not,
so let's watch the good manners, shall you?
--
Sacha
Sep 22nd 2004, 6:15 pm
#79
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 19:54:09 +0200, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:
>[email protected] writes:
>> The photos don't do it justice.
>So someone photoshopped everything out except a couple scraps from the
>foundations?
Since you haven't been there how can you judge?
wrote:
>[email protected] writes:
>> The photos don't do it justice.
>So someone photoshopped everything out except a couple scraps from the
>foundations?
Since you haven't been there how can you judge?
Sep 22nd 2004, 6:15 pm
#80
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
Sacha <[email protected]> wrote:
> I know there's a built-in resistance at that age to ALL parental suggestions
> but is there a teacher at school who could offer him some inspired
> information on those long-ago people? With a bit of prompting from you,
> could that teacher ask him to do a special report for his class when he
> returns home which will give him a reason for taking a serious interest?
> Could the teacher run a short session on Roman history, focusing a bit on
> the fact that your son is going to be so fortunate as to see it for himself,
> making him - just a bit - the envy of his classmates?
This last suggestion is, in my opinion, Golden.
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
> I know there's a built-in resistance at that age to ALL parental suggestions
> but is there a teacher at school who could offer him some inspired
> information on those long-ago people? With a bit of prompting from you,
> could that teacher ask him to do a special report for his class when he
> returns home which will give him a reason for taking a serious interest?
> Could the teacher run a short session on Roman history, focusing a bit on
> the fact that your son is going to be so fortunate as to see it for himself,
> making him - just a bit - the envy of his classmates?
This last suggestion is, in my opinion, Golden.
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
Sep 22nd 2004, 6:25 pm
#81
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
"Emilia" <emilia@(spam-so-)easy.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
> I think you are exaggerating somewhat! But that is not unheard of from
> someone from the north! ;o)
Yo! :)
> The accent isn't a problem is he is learning
> Italian there. Maybe he can go home speaking with a Roman accent. There
> are worse things in life.
I don't understand Roman accent very well either.
What else can I say? Good luck and enjoy the visit!
paola
news:[email protected]...
> I think you are exaggerating somewhat! But that is not unheard of from
> someone from the north! ;o)
Yo! :)
> The accent isn't a problem is he is learning
> Italian there. Maybe he can go home speaking with a Roman accent. There
> are worse things in life.
I don't understand Roman accent very well either.
What else can I say? Good luck and enjoy the visit!
paola
Sep 22nd 2004, 6:27 pm
#82
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
> You make it sound like 14-year-olds are mentally retarded.
They aren't but not being familiar with Italian increase misunderstanding
and dangerous.
>I think most
> of them can handle rudeness and can figure out when to cross a street.
Sure, but I suggest you to visit Rome before saying that. :)
paola
news:[email protected]...
> You make it sound like 14-year-olds are mentally retarded.
They aren't but not being familiar with Italian increase misunderstanding
and dangerous.
>I think most
> of them can handle rudeness and can figure out when to cross a street.
Sure, but I suggest you to visit Rome before saying that. :)
paola
Sep 22nd 2004, 6:28 pm
#83
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
> Do you watch a lot of TV?
> I've not been to Rome, but I see seven- and eight-year-olds riding the
> Métro alone in Paris and they seem to do just fine.
I'm not crazy but I've been to Rome. I think this will explain you all.
;)
paola
news:[email protected]...
> Do you watch a lot of TV?
> I've not been to Rome, but I see seven- and eight-year-olds riding the
> Métro alone in Paris and they seem to do just fine.
I'm not crazy but I've been to Rome. I think this will explain you all.
;)
paola
Sep 22nd 2004, 6:28 pm
#84
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
Mxsmanic wrote:
> minelli374 writes:
>
>
>>I live near Milan and I wouldn't suggest anyone to let a boy alone in an
>>Italian big city. People are not very polite, traffic jam is really
>>dangerous because we don't obey limit and traffic rules and police control
>>il very poor.
>>Italian drivers don't respect light, never stop at crossowalk and so,
>>expecially in the south of the Country.
>>It's plenty of immigrants who spend their days drinkin', pissin' and hanging
>>around.
>>Then you have to consider that people have a strong accent there and the 14
>>y.o boy doesn't know a word of Italian.
>
>
> You make it sound like 14-year-olds are mentally retarded. I think most
> of them can handle rudeness and can figure out when to cross a street.
>
no kidding -- I can understand that people don't want their 14 year old
unsupervised in a strange city where they don't know the possible risks
-- or what to do if something happens -- nothing like having a missing
kid and not being able to effectively communicate with authorities
but most 14 year olds should be capable of staying where they are
supposed to be and showing up for agreed meetings etc -- we often turned
ours loose at 14 in places like the Smithsonian complex or central Rome
with a clear understanding of the range that could be explored and where
the checkpoint meetings would be -- never had any of ours miss the
meetings agreed on or have difficulties --
> minelli374 writes:
>
>
>>I live near Milan and I wouldn't suggest anyone to let a boy alone in an
>>Italian big city. People are not very polite, traffic jam is really
>>dangerous because we don't obey limit and traffic rules and police control
>>il very poor.
>>Italian drivers don't respect light, never stop at crossowalk and so,
>>expecially in the south of the Country.
>>It's plenty of immigrants who spend their days drinkin', pissin' and hanging
>>around.
>>Then you have to consider that people have a strong accent there and the 14
>>y.o boy doesn't know a word of Italian.
>
>
> You make it sound like 14-year-olds are mentally retarded. I think most
> of them can handle rudeness and can figure out when to cross a street.
>
no kidding -- I can understand that people don't want their 14 year old
unsupervised in a strange city where they don't know the possible risks
-- or what to do if something happens -- nothing like having a missing
kid and not being able to effectively communicate with authorities
but most 14 year olds should be capable of staying where they are
supposed to be and showing up for agreed meetings etc -- we often turned
ours loose at 14 in places like the Smithsonian complex or central Rome
with a clear understanding of the range that could be explored and where
the checkpoint meetings would be -- never had any of ours miss the
meetings agreed on or have difficulties --
Sep 23rd 2004, 3:41 am
#85
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
Juliana L Holm writes:
> This last suggestion is, in my opinion, Golden.
Nobody cares about ancient Rome, though, at least in the U.S. He be
more the envy of his classmates for seeing a soccer game than for seeing
some decaying ancient Roman town.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> This last suggestion is, in my opinion, Golden.
Nobody cares about ancient Rome, though, at least in the U.S. He be
more the envy of his classmates for seeing a soccer game than for seeing
some decaying ancient Roman town.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Sep 23rd 2004, 3:42 am
#86
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
minelli374 writes:
> They aren't but not being familiar with Italian increase misunderstanding
> and dangerous.
What are the specific dangers?
> Sure, but I suggest you to visit Rome before saying that.
I've never had any desire to visit Italy. If it were such a nice place,
my ancestors never would have left.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> They aren't but not being familiar with Italian increase misunderstanding
> and dangerous.
What are the specific dangers?
> Sure, but I suggest you to visit Rome before saying that.
I've never had any desire to visit Italy. If it were such a nice place,
my ancestors never would have left.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Sep 23rd 2004, 3:44 am
#87
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
[email protected] writes:
> Since you haven't been there how can you judge?
Easily: I just look at the photos. If they don't do the place justice,
then they must differ from the real thing. And so I speculated on what
might have been removed that would make the real thing interesting and
yet is missing from the photos. If they really are just ruins, however,
I doubt that I'd find them very interesting. All that ancient ruins do
for me is make me wonder about everything that we still don't know,
which is depressing.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Since you haven't been there how can you judge?
Easily: I just look at the photos. If they don't do the place justice,
then they must differ from the real thing. And so I speculated on what
might have been removed that would make the real thing interesting and
yet is missing from the photos. If they really are just ruins, however,
I doubt that I'd find them very interesting. All that ancient ruins do
for me is make me wonder about everything that we still don't know,
which is depressing.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Sep 23rd 2004, 6:45 am
#88
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 21:42:51 +0200, B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote:
>The Church of Santa Maria della Concezione, near the Spanish Steps,
>has a series of rooms almost completely covered with human bones, the
>remains of long-dead monks. (There is even a chandelier made with
>bones.)
This was a big hit with my cousin's children (11 and 17).
Unfortunately it's closed just at the moment. I don't think an opening
date has been announced.
Margaret Coffin
InfoRoma - The Rome Experts
Custom itinerary planning for independent travelers
www.inforoma.it
>The Church of Santa Maria della Concezione, near the Spanish Steps,
>has a series of rooms almost completely covered with human bones, the
>remains of long-dead monks. (There is even a chandelier made with
>bones.)
This was a big hit with my cousin's children (11 and 17).
Unfortunately it's closed just at the moment. I don't think an opening
date has been announced.
Margaret Coffin
InfoRoma - The Rome Experts
Custom itinerary planning for independent travelers
www.inforoma.it
Sep 23rd 2004, 6:45 am
#89
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:44:14 +1000, "Q" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I will be travelling to Rome in January with a 14 year old son. He hates
>museums, art galleries and the like. Can anyone suggest ideas of what might
>appeal to him when we get there so we both have a reasonable time?
One thing children and teenagers seem to love is being shown "secret"
places: the pope's bathroom in Castel Sant'Angelo, for instance, or
the "pissoir" in the corner of a cardinal's bedroom. But these are not
always mentioned by the guidebooks.
Another thing that brings it all to life is to relate some of the
legends linked to the various monuments (e.g. Bocca della Verità ).
It can help, when walking about the city, to have children/teenagers
spot the arms of the different popes on buildings: the Barberini bees
(Urban VIII), the Pamphilij dove (Innocence X), the oak tree of the
Della Rovere family (Sixtus IV and Julius II) and so on. Since they
will invariably see them before you do, and can memorize the names of
the popes more easily than you, it gives them a sense of oneupmanship!
Margaret Coffin
InfoRoma - The Rome Experts
Custom itinerary planning in Rome and Latium
www.inforoma.it
>I will be travelling to Rome in January with a 14 year old son. He hates
>museums, art galleries and the like. Can anyone suggest ideas of what might
>appeal to him when we get there so we both have a reasonable time?
One thing children and teenagers seem to love is being shown "secret"
places: the pope's bathroom in Castel Sant'Angelo, for instance, or
the "pissoir" in the corner of a cardinal's bedroom. But these are not
always mentioned by the guidebooks.
Another thing that brings it all to life is to relate some of the
legends linked to the various monuments (e.g. Bocca della Verità ).
It can help, when walking about the city, to have children/teenagers
spot the arms of the different popes on buildings: the Barberini bees
(Urban VIII), the Pamphilij dove (Innocence X), the oak tree of the
Della Rovere family (Sixtus IV and Julius II) and so on. Since they
will invariably see them before you do, and can memorize the names of
the popes more easily than you, it gives them a sense of oneupmanship!
Margaret Coffin
InfoRoma - The Rome Experts
Custom itinerary planning in Rome and Latium
www.inforoma.it
Sep 23rd 2004, 8:47 am
#90
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Teenagers in Rome
Unfortunately his history teacher is a lot to blame for his lack of interest
in history.
To answer other questions, he is capable of reading but getting this to
extend past a skateboarding/snowboarding/soccer/baseball magazine is a big
ask.
As I previously said, I dont really need (or want) parenting or
psychological advice. There is no value at all in assuming my motivations or
criticising them. I will simply skip over these contributions so you may as
well keep them to yourselves. It is not simpy a matter of taking a 14 year
old on a 3-week ski trip of his choice then forcing him to suffer through a
week in Rome. There are legitimate reasons for what is happening.
Having said that, I am still interested in helpful hints on how to deal with
things when we are there.
"Juliana L Holm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sacha <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I know there's a built-in resistance at that age to ALL parental
suggestions
> > but is there a teacher at school who could offer him some inspired
> > information on those long-ago people? With a bit of prompting from you,
> > could that teacher ask him to do a special report for his class when he
> > returns home which will give him a reason for taking a serious interest?
> > Could the teacher run a short session on Roman history, focusing a bit
on
> > the fact that your son is going to be so fortunate as to see it for
himself,
> > making him - just a bit - the envy of his classmates?
> This last suggestion is, in my opinion, Golden.
> --
> Julie
> **********
> Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
> http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
in history.
To answer other questions, he is capable of reading but getting this to
extend past a skateboarding/snowboarding/soccer/baseball magazine is a big
ask.
As I previously said, I dont really need (or want) parenting or
psychological advice. There is no value at all in assuming my motivations or
criticising them. I will simply skip over these contributions so you may as
well keep them to yourselves. It is not simpy a matter of taking a 14 year
old on a 3-week ski trip of his choice then forcing him to suffer through a
week in Rome. There are legitimate reasons for what is happening.
Having said that, I am still interested in helpful hints on how to deal with
things when we are there.
"Juliana L Holm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sacha <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I know there's a built-in resistance at that age to ALL parental
suggestions
> > but is there a teacher at school who could offer him some inspired
> > information on those long-ago people? With a bit of prompting from you,
> > could that teacher ask him to do a special report for his class when he
> > returns home which will give him a reason for taking a serious interest?
> > Could the teacher run a short session on Roman history, focusing a bit
on
> > the fact that your son is going to be so fortunate as to see it for
himself,
> > making him - just a bit - the envy of his classmates?
> This last suggestion is, in my opinion, Golden.
> --
> Julie
> **********
> Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
> http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm