J. Walker <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Jan 13, 4:40 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
> > Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:57:20 -0000, "tim....." <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > >"J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > >news:[email protected] roups.com...
> > > >>http://www.flandersnews.be/cm/flandersnews.be/News/070113_motorwaytax
> >
> > > >> However, foreign residents will have no such luck.
> > > >> Dutch say that measure is "discriminatory"
> > > >> A Dutch tourist enjoying his holiday
> > > >> The Dutch have said that they intend to raise the issue with the
> > > >> European Commission, as they feel that the new motorway tax
> > > >> discriminates against their motorists.
> >
> > > >This seems fair in principle to me.
> >
> > > >The Belgian population pay for the construction of Belgium's roads
> > > >through their taxes, other national's do not.
> >
> > > >It thus seems fair that some way of charging those other nationals is
> > > >perfectly reasonable.
> >
> > > >(whether a fixed 60 Euro annual charge is a reasonable way of
> > > >charging is another matter)
> >
> > > The Dutch won't make much if they charge Belgians to use their
> > motorways.The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for using
> > their crappy motorways :-(
> >
> > B;
> >
>
> Austria and Switzerland already do

I meant *all* foreigners - even those with NL plates :-(

B;


--
Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
<http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG>

On 13 Jan 2007 08:15:53 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>On Jan 13, 5:04 pm, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 13 Jan 2007 07:51:48 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Jan 13, 4:40 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
>> >> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:57:20 -0000, "tim....." <[email protected]>
>> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> > >"J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> > >news:[email protected] roups.com...
>> >> > >>http://www.flandersnews.be/cm/flandersnews.be/News/070113_motorwaytax
>>
>> >> > >> However, foreign residents will have no such luck.
>> >> > >> Dutch say that measure is "discriminatory"
>> >> > >> A Dutch tourist enjoying his holiday
>> >> > >> The Dutch have said that they intend to raise the issue with the
>> >> > >> European Commission, as they feel that the new motorway tax
>> >> > >> discriminates against their motorists.
>>
>> >> > >This seems fair in principle to me.
>>
>> >> > >The Belgian population pay for the construction of Belgium's
>> >> > >roads through their taxes, other national's do not.
>>
>> >> > >It thus seems fair that some way of charging those other
>> >> > >nationals is perfectly reasonable.
>>
>> >> > >(whether a fixed 60 Euro annual charge is a reasonable way
>> >> > >of charging is another matter)
>>
>> >> > The Dutch won't make much if they charge Belgians to use their motorways.The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for using their
>> >> crappy motorways :-(
>>
>> >> B;
>>
>> >Austria and Switzerland already do and France and Italy and ...
>> --
>>
>> Martin
>
>so just put it on petrol and relieve the non car owners of the tax
>burden (and scrap the road tax disc)

There is no road tax disk in NL.

The tax is on vehicles using motorways. How does this effect non car owners?
--

Martin

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:18:20 +0100, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:

>J. Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 13, 4:40 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
>> > Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > > On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:57:20 -0000, "tim....." <[email protected]>
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> > > >"J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > > >news:[email protected] roups.com...
>> > > >>http://www.flandersnews.be/cm/flandersnews.be/News/070113_motorwaytax
>> >
>> > > >> However, foreign residents will have no such luck.
>> > > >> Dutch say that measure is "discriminatory"
>> > > >> A Dutch tourist enjoying his holiday
>> > > >> The Dutch have said that they intend to raise the issue with the
>> > > >> European Commission, as they feel that the new motorway tax
>> > > >> discriminates against their motorists.
>> >
>> > > >This seems fair in principle to me.
>> >
>> > > >The Belgian population pay for the construction of Belgium's roads
>> > > >through their taxes, other national's do not.
>> >
>> > > >It thus seems fair that some way of charging those other nationals is
>> > > >perfectly reasonable.
>> >
>> > > >(whether a fixed 60 Euro annual charge is a reasonable way of
>> > > >charging is another matter)
>> >
>> > > The Dutch won't make much if they charge Belgians to use their
>> > motorways.The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for using
>> > their crappy motorways :-(
>> >
>> > B;
>> >
>>
>> Austria and Switzerland already do
>
>I meant *all* foreigners - even those with NL plates :-(


Incidentally EUR 60 is for a whole year, there will be a lower charge for
example 10 days.

" Alle automobilisten moeten het vignet in 2008 kopen. Belgen krijgen het bedrag
vergoed via de wegenbelasting, Nederlanders en alle andere niet-Belgen die
bijvoorbeeld op weg naar de camping in Frankrijk via België rijden, krijgen het
niet vergoed. De Vlaamse regering wil met het geld de wegen opknappen en het
openbaar vervoer verbeteren.

Overigens is de 60 euro die het vignet gaat kosten alleen voor een jaarvignet.
Er komen ook goedkopere versies voor bijvoorbeeld tien dagen, zei Van Brempt."
--

Martin

On Jan 13, 5:22 pm, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 13 Jan 2007 08:15:53 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jan 13, 5:04 pm, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On 13 Jan 2007 07:51:48 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> >On Jan 13, 4:40 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
> >> >> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> > On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:57:20 -0000, "tim....." <[email protected]>
> >> >> > wrote:
>
> >> >> > >"J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >> > >news:[email protected] roups.com...
> >> >> > >>http://www.flandersnews.be/cm/flandersnews.be/News/070113_motorwaytax
>
> >> >> > >> However, foreign residents will have no such luck.
> >> >> > >> Dutch say that measure is "discriminatory"
> >> >> > >> A Dutch tourist enjoying his holiday
> >> >> > >> The Dutch have said that they intend to raise the issue with the
> >> >> > >> European Commission, as they feel that the new motorway tax
> >> >> > >> discriminates against their motorists.
>
> >> >> > >This seems fair in principle to me.
>
> >> >> > >The Belgian population pay for the construction of Belgium's
> >> >> > >roads through their taxes, other national's do not.
>
> >> >> > >It thus seems fair that some way of charging those other
> >> >> > >nationals is perfectly reasonable.
>
> >> >> > >(whether a fixed 60 Euro annual charge is a reasonable way
> >> >> > >of charging is another matter)
>
> >> >> > The Dutch won't make much if they charge Belgians to use their motorways.The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for using their
> >> >> crappy motorways :-(
>
> >> >> B;
>
> >> >Austria and Switzerland already do and France and Italy and ...
> >> --
>
> >> Martin
>
> >so just put it on petrol and relieve the non car owners of the tax
> >burden (and scrap the road tax disc)There is no road tax disk in NL.
>
> The tax is on vehicles using motorways. How does this effect non car owners?
> --
>
> Martin

...I was expanding the argument.....

Martin <[email protected]> wrote:

> Euro 60 is insignificant compared to the planned Dutch toll charges.
> I'm surprised the Belgians have taken so long to impose a charge.

If they use it to bring the road surface and facilities in Belgium up to
civilised standards it will be money well spent.

If they use it to teach Belgians how to drive it will be an even better
bargain.

B;


--
Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
<http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG>

On 13 Jan 2007 08:35:31 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>On Jan 13, 5:22 pm, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 13 Jan 2007 08:15:53 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Jan 13, 5:04 pm, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> On 13 Jan 2007 07:51:48 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> >On Jan 13, 4:40 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
>> >> >> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> > On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:57:20 -0000, "tim....." <[email protected]>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> > >"J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >> > >news:[email protected] roups.com...
>> >> >> > >>http://www.flandersnews.be/cm/flandersnews.be/News/070113_motorwaytax
>>
>> >> >> > >> However, foreign residents will have no such luck.
>> >> >> > >> Dutch say that measure is "discriminatory"
>> >> >> > >> A Dutch tourist enjoying his holiday
>> >> >> > >> The Dutch have said that they intend to raise the issue with the
>> >> >> > >> European Commission, as they feel that the new motorway tax
>> >> >> > >> discriminates against their motorists.
>>
>> >> >> > >This seems fair in principle to me.
>>
>> >> >> > >The Belgian population pay for the construction of Belgium's
>> >> >> > >roads through their taxes, other national's do not.
>>
>> >> >> > >It thus seems fair that some way of charging those other
>> >> >> > >nationals is perfectly reasonable.
>>
>> >> >> > >(whether a fixed 60 Euro annual charge is a reasonable way
>> >> >> > >of charging is another matter)
>>
>> >> >> > The Dutch won't make much if they charge Belgians to use their motorways.The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for using their
>> >> >> crappy motorways :-(
>>
>> >> >> B;
>>
>> >> >Austria and Switzerland already do and France and Italy and ...
>> >> --
>>
>> >> Martin
>>
>> >so just put it on petrol and relieve the non car owners of the tax
>> >burden (and scrap the road tax disc)There is no road tax disk in NL.
>>
>> The tax is on vehicles using motorways. How does this effect non car owners?

>...I was expanding the argument.....

Do go ahead and explain :-)

The Dutch are good at getting rid of silly taxes.
Road tax disk gone.
TV license gone
Boat tax never implemented.
--

Martin

On Jan 13, 5:38 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Euro 60 is insignificant compared to the planned Dutch toll charges.
> > I'm surprised the Belgians have taken so long to impose a charge.If they use it to bring the road surface and facilities in Belgium up to
> civilised standards it will be money well spent.
>
> If they use it to teach Belgians how to drive it will be an even better
> bargain.
>
> B;
>

they couldn't balance the budget this year (they to sell off lots of
buildings (including their embassy in Japan))
the high 'boete' for speeding will change Belgian driving
characteristics, k-ching !

J. Walker <[email protected]> wrote:

> the high 'boete' for speeding will change Belgian driving
> characteristics, k-ching !

I hope so - whenever there's a *****ing idiot weaving through traffic at
high speed you know without looking that it's a Belgian.

B;


--
Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
<http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG>

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:38:38 +0100, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:

>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Euro 60 is insignificant compared to the planned Dutch toll charges.
>> I'm surprised the Belgians have taken so long to impose a charge.
>
>If they use it to bring the road surface and facilities in Belgium up to
>civilised standards it will be money well spent.
>
>If they use it to teach Belgians how to drive it will be an even better
>bargain.

Is there always at least one who tries to kill you too, when you drive in
Belgium with Dutch plates?
Never ever have a car accident in Belgium with a Belgian. You will always be the
guilty party. Perjury is a Belgian specialty.
When a speeding car wrecked my wife's car, the first thing the policeman said
was that it must have been her fault because her car had Dutch plates. Later
witnesses were found to prove that it was her fault. There was no attempt made
to measure the skid marks of the Belgians car.
--

Martin

On 13 Jan 2007 08:47:49 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>On Jan 13, 5:38 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
>> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Euro 60 is insignificant compared to the planned Dutch toll charges.
>> > I'm surprised the Belgians have taken so long to impose a charge.If they use it to bring the road surface and facilities in Belgium up to
>> civilised standards it will be money well spent.
>>
>> If they use it to teach Belgians how to drive it will be an even better
>> bargain.
>>
>> B;
>>
>
>they couldn't balance the budget this year (they to sell off lots of
>buildings (including their embassy in Japan))

Embassies are an expensive waste of money. Other countries have quietly disposed
of some too.
I wasn't expecting to find that Berlin was the nearest place for Oz visa
enquiries.

>the high 'boete' for speeding will change Belgian driving
>characteristics, k-ching !

It's about time they did something about drunken driving in Belgium.
--

Martin

Martin <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:38:38 +0100, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
>
> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Euro 60 is insignificant compared to the planned Dutch toll charges.
> >> I'm surprised the Belgians have taken so long to impose a charge.
> >
> >If they use it to bring the road surface and facilities in Belgium up to
> >civilised standards it will be money well spent.
> >
> >If they use it to teach Belgians how to drive it will be an even better
> >bargain.
>
> Is there always at least one who tries to kill you too, when you drive in
> Belgium with Dutch plates?

Yes, but there was always at least one who tried to kill me when I drove
in Belgium with French plates !

B;


--
Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
<http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG>

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:54:19 +0100, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:

>J. Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> the high 'boete' for speeding will change Belgian driving
>> characteristics, k-ching !
>
>I hope so - whenever there's a *****ing idiot weaving through traffic at
>high speed you know without looking that it's a Belgian.

In Netherlands? True or a Dutch Schiphol taxi, or a German or a British coach
driver.
Almost always the vehicle is a German make.
--

Martin

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:01:11 +0100, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:

>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:38:38 +0100, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
>>
>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Euro 60 is insignificant compared to the planned Dutch toll charges.
>> >> I'm surprised the Belgians have taken so long to impose a charge.
>> >
>> >If they use it to bring the road surface and facilities in Belgium up to
>> >civilised standards it will be money well spent.
>> >
>> >If they use it to teach Belgians how to drive it will be an even better
>> >bargain.
>>
>> Is there always at least one who tries to kill you too, when you drive in
>> Belgium with Dutch plates?
>
>Yes, but there was always at least one who tried to kill me when I drove
>in Belgium with French plates !

Good point! :-)

--

Martin

On Jan 13, 5:47 pm, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 13 Jan 2007 08:35:31 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jan 13, 5:22 pm, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On 13 Jan 2007 08:15:53 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> >On Jan 13, 5:04 pm, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> On 13 Jan 2007 07:51:48 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> >> >On Jan 13, 4:40 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
> >> >> >> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> > On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:57:20 -0000, "tim....." <[email protected]>
> >> >> >> > wrote:
>
> >> >> >> > >"J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >> >> > >news:[email protected] roups.com...
> >> >> >> > >>http://www.flandersnews.be/cm/flandersnews.be/News/070113_motorwaytax
>
> >> >> >> > >> However, foreign residents will have no such luck.
> >> >> >> > >> Dutch say that measure is "discriminatory"
> >> >> >> > >> A Dutch tourist enjoying his holiday
> >> >> >> > >> The Dutch have said that they intend to raise the issue with the
> >> >> >> > >> European Commission, as they feel that the new motorway tax
> >> >> >> > >> discriminates against their motorists.
>
> >> >> >> > >This seems fair in principle to me.
>
> >> >> >> > >The Belgian population pay for the construction of Belgium's
> >> >> >> > >roads through their taxes, other national's do not.
>
> >> >> >> > >It thus seems fair that some way of charging those other
> >> >> >> > >nationals is perfectly reasonable.
>
> >> >> >> > >(whether a fixed 60 Euro annual charge is a reasonable way
> >> >> >> > >of charging is another matter)
>
> >> >> >> > The Dutch won't make much if they charge Belgians to use their motorways.The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for using their
> >> >> >> crappy motorways :-(
>
> >> >> >> B;
>
> >> >> >Austria and Switzerland already do and France and Italy and ...
> >> >> --
>
> >> >> Martin
>
> >> >so just put it on petrol and relieve the non car owners of the tax
> >> >burden (and scrap the road tax disc)There is no road tax disk in NL.
>
> >> The tax is on vehicles using motorways. How does this effect non car owners?
> >...I was expanding the argument.....Do go ahead and explain :-)
>
> The Dutch are good at getting rid of silly taxes.
> Road tax disk gone.
> TV license gone
> Boat tax never implemented.
> --
>
> Martin

tv license also gone here

On 13 Jan 2007 09:14:38 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>On Jan 13, 5:47 pm, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 13 Jan 2007 08:35:31 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Jan 13, 5:22 pm, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> On 13 Jan 2007 08:15:53 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> >On Jan 13, 5:04 pm, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> On 13 Jan 2007 07:51:48 -0800, "J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >On Jan 13, 4:40 pm, [email protected] (Mister Bartlett) wrote:
>> >> >> >> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:57:20 -0000, "tim....." <[email protected]>
>> >> >> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> > >"J. Walker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> > >news:[email protected] roups.com...
>> >> >> >> > >>http://www.flandersnews.be/cm/flandersnews.be/News/070113_motorwaytax
>>
>> >> >> >> > >> However, foreign residents will have no such luck.
>> >> >> >> > >> Dutch say that measure is "discriminatory"
>> >> >> >> > >> A Dutch tourist enjoying his holiday
>> >> >> >> > >> The Dutch have said that they intend to raise the issue with the
>> >> >> >> > >> European Commission, as they feel that the new motorway tax
>> >> >> >> > >> discriminates against their motorists.
>>
>> >> >> >> > >This seems fair in principle to me.
>>
>> >> >> >> > >The Belgian population pay for the construction of Belgium's
>> >> >> >> > >roads through their taxes, other national's do not.
>>
>> >> >> >> > >It thus seems fair that some way of charging those other
>> >> >> >> > >nationals is perfectly reasonable.
>>
>> >> >> >> > >(whether a fixed 60 Euro annual charge is a reasonable way
>> >> >> >> > >of charging is another matter)
>>
>> >> >> >> > The Dutch won't make much if they charge Belgians to use their motorways.The Dutch will probably just charge all foreigners for using their
>> >> >> >> crappy motorways :-(
>>
>> >> >> >> B;
>>
>> >> >> >Austria and Switzerland already do and France and Italy and ...
>> >> >> --
>>
>> >> >> Martin
>>
>> >> >so just put it on petrol and relieve the non car owners of the tax
>> >> >burden (and scrap the road tax disc)There is no road tax disk in NL.
>>
>> >> The tax is on vehicles using motorways. How does this effect non car owners?
>> >...I was expanding the argument.....Do go ahead and explain :-)
>>
>> The Dutch are good at getting rid of silly taxes.
>> Road tax disk gone.
>> TV license gone
>> Boat tax never implemented.
>> --
>>
>> Martin
>
>tv license also gone here

Probably elsewhere too. It is stupid taxing things separately when most of the
population use a facility.
--

Martin