J. Clarke

sharx35 wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Chris Blunt wrote:
>>> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 06:26:47 GMT, "sharx35" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Chris Blunt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:58:18 +0300, Markku Gr�nroos
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Spehro Pefhany" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>>>>>> viestiss�:[email protected] om...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I carry a small bottle of shampoo, because I don't like the
>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>> stuff. Maybe 200ml, which could last for several weeks. Not
>>>>>>> having a mobile phone seems silly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why? When travelling on holiday, you need a phone. I don't need
>>>>>> one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I find a phone to keep in touch with people even more useful
>>>>> when
>>>>> I'm traveling than it is at home. It also serves as a camera, an
>>>>> alarm clock, a GPS, and a way to check my emails. Something so
>>>>> compact that does all that and only weighs around 100g easily
>>>>> justifies being taken along on any trips I make.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> They take lousy quality pictures.
>>>
>>> In fact I think the 5 megapixel camera on my Nokia N95 takes
>>> better
>>> pictures than my Canon IXUS which I bought only a couple of years
>>> ago.
>>> It may not be a professional quality camera, I don't think anyone
>>> would describe the quality as lousy.
>>>
>>>> No, you do NOT need GPS unless you are,
>>>> perhaps, on safari and surely the OPERATORS of the safari will
>>>> take
>>>> care of THAT need.
>>>
>>> No, I certainly don't *need* GPS, but its was very nice to have
>>> while
>>> driving around Thailand a few weeks ago. On several occasions it
>>> made
>>> finding locations we were visiting a lot easier.
>>>
>>>> E-mails can be checked at any one of the MILLIONS of cyber cafes
>>>> in the world.
>>>
>>> Of course, and that's probably what I'd do if I wanted to do any
>>> serious work online. The advantage for me is being able to check
>>> instantly from anywhere whether there's any email that needs
>>> attending
>>> to in the first place, without even having to go near an internet
>>> cafe.
>>
>> Personally I've never gotten an email that _needed_ checking. If
>> someone really wants to get hold of me they can call and if they
>> want
>> to get hold of me when I'm on vacation they can bloody well leave a
>> message and wait until I get home.
>>
>> The cell phone is for _my_ convenience, not for the convenience of
>> others. While I always carry it, unless I'm using it or expecting
>> a
>> call from someone I want to talk to, it's turned off.
>>
>
> Well, if I ever DO get one, that will be my attitude, too. It will
> usually be turned OFF, unless I am calling out or expecting an
> urgent
> call.

Oh, now I get it, you're afraid of the unfamiliar. If you've had one
and decided that it didn't fit your needs that's one thing, but until
you've actually got some first hand experience you shouldn't go around
hurling insults at people who have found them to be useful.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke

sharx35 wrote:
> "William Black" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "sharx35" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:HAvyi.174$bO6.161@edtnps89...
>>>
>>> . No, you do NOT need GPS unless you are, perhaps, on safari
>>
>> Or on a walking holiday somewhere...
>>
>>> E-mails can be checked at any one of the MILLIONS of cyber cafes
>>> in
>>> the world.
>>
>> Cyber cafes are disappearing fast in Europe. Everyone has a
>> computer, wireless access is available in many town centres, and
>> even in some rural areas. I don't think there's a cyber cafe
>> within
>> forty miles of where I live these days, there used to be half a
>> dozen, but I can get free wireless access down at my local pub..
>
> Yet ANOTHER reason for dropping in at the pub, eh?

Note what he said, "free wireless access". Not an open computer or
terminal. That means that he needs something that can connect to that
access point.

So which would you rather lug around, a few ounces of cell phone or a
few pounds of computer?
>
>
>>
>> --
>> William Black
>>
>>
>> I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
>> Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
>> I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough
>> gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the
>> beach
>> Time for tea.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Erilar

In article <FMAyi.93$Pd4.67@edtnps82>, "sharx35" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Well, if I ever DO get one, that will be my attitude, too. It will usually
> be turned OFF, unless I am calling out or expecting an urgent call.

I have one I use for travel inside the US that actually has voice mail,
but I turn it on so seldom that I've found months-old messages when I've
done so 8-)

--
Mary, biblioholic

bib-li-o-hol-ism : the habitual longing to purchase, read, store,
admire, and consume books in excess.

http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Erilar

In article <[email protected]>,
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Copies at home aren't free either and if you're using an inkjet
> all-in-one they run when they get wet too.
plastic cover? umbrella?
>
> As to the weight, that depends on how much of the book you need. If
> you're going to one town for a few days maybe.
If you're going to one town you can read up ahead of time and get
detailed info when you get there, too.

--
Mary, biblioholic

bib-li-o-hol-ism : the habitual longing to purchase, read, store,
admire, and consume books in excess.

http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

J. Clarke

Chris Blunt wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:46:22 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Chris Blunt wrote:
>>> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 06:26:47 GMT, "sharx35" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Chris Blunt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:58:18 +0300, Markku Gr�nroos
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Spehro Pefhany" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>>>>>> viestiss�:[email protected] om...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I carry a small bottle of shampoo, because I don't like the
>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>> stuff. Maybe 200ml, which could last for several weeks. Not
>>>>>>> having a mobile phone seems silly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why? When travelling on holiday, you need a phone. I don't need
>>>>>> one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I find a phone to keep in touch with people even more useful
>>>>> when
>>>>> I'm traveling than it is at home. It also serves as a camera, an
>>>>> alarm clock, a GPS, and a way to check my emails. Something so
>>>>> compact that does all that and only weighs around 100g easily
>>>>> justifies being taken along on any trips I make.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> They take lousy quality pictures.
>>>
>>> In fact I think the 5 megapixel camera on my Nokia N95 takes
>>> better
>>> pictures than my Canon IXUS which I bought only a couple of years
>>> ago.
>>> It may not be a professional quality camera, I don't think anyone
>>> would describe the quality as lousy.
>>>
>>>> No, you do NOT need GPS unless you are,
>>>> perhaps, on safari and surely the OPERATORS of the safari will
>>>> take
>>>> care of THAT need.
>>>
>>> No, I certainly don't *need* GPS, but its was very nice to have
>>> while
>>> driving around Thailand a few weeks ago. On several occasions it
>>> made
>>> finding locations we were visiting a lot easier.
>>>
>>>> E-mails can be checked at any one of the MILLIONS of cyber cafes
>>>> in the world.
>>>
>>> Of course, and that's probably what I'd do if I wanted to do any
>>> serious work online. The advantage for me is being able to check
>>> instantly from anywhere whether there's any email that needs
>>> attending
>>> to in the first place, without even having to go near an internet
>>> cafe.
>>
>> Personally I've never gotten an email that _needed_ checking. If
>> someone really wants to get hold of me they can call and if they
>> want
>> to get hold of me when I'm on vacation they can bloody well leave a
>> message and wait until I get home.
>
> In that case you would have absolutely no need for such a function
> on
> a mobile phone. Not everyone is in the lucky position of being so
> independent of email.

Actually I find the email function quite useful. Before I go grocery
shopping I email my shopping list to my cell phone. But I seldom get
email from others that has any urgency.

>> The cell phone is for _my_ convenience, not for the convenience of
>> others. While I always carry it, unless I'm using it or expecting
>> a
>> call from someone I want to talk to, it's turned off.
>
> I don't travel in order to place myself in some kind of self-imposed
> isolation, and I usually have friends in places I travel to.

Turning off one's cell phone does not result in "self-imposed
isolation". Travellers had no trouble meeting their friends before
cell phones were invented. But when I'm with one of those friends
then I don't want the phone to interrupt the conversation.

> A mobile
> is invaluable for keeping in contact with them, arranging meetings,
> dealing with last minute changes of plan etc.

Which comes under the heading of "my convenience".

> Unimportant phone calls
> on a mobile can be a nuisance so I normally use text messaging
> rather
> than making voice calls because I find it far less intrusive.

That's nice, but I don't usually call myself, and others don't have
your courtesy.

> If other
> people find writing letters to friend in advance, making use of
> carrier pigeons, or leaving messages at hotel reception desks a
> convenient way to achieve the same thing, then good for them.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Erilar

In article <EHvyi.176$bO6.169@edtnps89>,
"sharx35" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Magda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:24:56 -0400, in rec.travel.europe, "Rog'"
> > <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
> > this:
> >
> >
> > ... Any ideas (for my wife) on how to pack for these limits:
> > ... US-Europe... 23kg (50lbs) ea. (2 allowed);
> > ... Inside Europe... a total of 20 kg (44 lbs); and
> > ... Inside Greece... a total of 15lkg. (33lbs.)....
> > ... plus a carry-on.
> > ... I said, pack for the least weight allowed, which went
> > ... over like a lead-balloon. =R> >
> > Let her pack as much as she wants and cope *all alone* with the
> > consequences (carry the
> > load herself, pay the penalties from her pocket, etc.). It will teach her
> > a lesson in
> > common sense.
>
> You don't understand: for MOST of us married people, our finances are
> COMBINED...when we married we COMBINED our fortunes, as it were. So it makes
> NO difference whose wallet the overweight fees comes out of...the source is
> the same.

Make her carry whatever she takes. I'm 73 and do it--a real "pack light"
teacher.

--
Mary, biblioholic

bib-li-o-hol-ism : the habitual longing to purchase, read, store,
admire, and consume books in excess.

http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

J. Clarke

Markku Gr�nroos wrote:
> "Chris Blunt" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
> viestiss�:[email protected] om...
>>
>> never have been able to afford to go to before. When they get there
>> they can do their work from a laptop on a beach instead of pushing
>> paperwork around stuck behind a desk in some office on the other
>> side
>> of the world.
>>
>>
> I thought the clerk was on holiday......... Moreover, sand would
> damage the computer in no time.

Priceless exchange on one of the fora on Compuserve many years
ago--guy's having trouble with his laptop, he's corresponding with a
female tech at I think it was Digital Research. Turns out that he's
online from the bar at the Royal Hawaiian. After a while they agree
that he's going to fly her to Hawaii for the purpose of fixing his
computer.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Alan S

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:28:28 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Discovering America is easy--if you sail west from Europe it's pretty
>hard to miss.
>
>Discovering Aunt Millie's new place when Aunt Millie is one of those
>can't give comprehensible directions is another story.

Easy instructions for a total stranger.

Go past Jones pasture, then turn right where the old school
used to be, then left two miles before you get to the
Peterson place. Millie's place is the one with the red back
door.

Cheers, Alan, Australia

William Black

"sharx35" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:7KAyi.91$Pd4.28@edtnps82...
>
> "William Black" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "sharx35" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:fLyyi.87$Pd4.76@edtnps82...
>>
>>> Those guys who are saddled with "high maintenance" wives, take note.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Define 'high maintenance' in this case please.
>
> In a nutshell? Demanding entitlement bitches who think that their butt is
> made out of gold.

Well the words seem to be in English but they don't make any sense.

Does anyone know what this means?

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

William Black

"sharx35" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:UOAyi.95$Pd4.84@edtnps82...
>

> And what are the odds about breaking your leg on a hike in Connecticut and
> someone NOT coming along with seconds? I've hiked all over the Canadian
> Rockies WITHOUT breaking my leg and WITHOUT a cell phone OR a GPS unit.
> Never got lost. Never got injured. You pansies are a bunch of nervous
> Nellies who can't get off the electronic teat.

He's going to die, lonely and afraid...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

William Black

"sharx35" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:rLAyi.92$Pd4.21@edtnps82...
>
> "William Black" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected] ti.fi...
>>>
>>
>>> I have arranged my travels so that there is little need to be instantly
>>> available. When I want to be in touch to outside world I lease a
>>> computer for a moment to send and receive mail. Sometimes it can be
>>> beneficial to book for mass transportation in advance by phone but I
>>> leave this to the hotel personnel. That's why they are there in the
>>> first place (typically the language barrier hinders me to contact the
>>> agent anyways).
>>
>> Why do you restrict yourself to environments where you don't need a
>> phone.
>>
>> Mine is mainly used as an alarm clock when I'm on holiday, and a means
>> of contacting my wife if we separated somewhere we're unfamiliar with.
>>
>> --
>> William Black
>
> So, how exactly did you manage to survive BEFORE this great invention?
>

I carried an alarm clock and at that time wasn't married.

I've had a mobile phone for about twenty years now.

Look, there was a time when your car breaking down on a remote road was a
crisis and it would take hours to sort out and if the weather was bad you
were going to be physically uncomfortable, possibly to the point of death.

These days you sit in your car a phone for 'the man' who comes and mends the
car or tows you to someone who can.

Stop pretending mobile phones don't make life easier.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

William Black

"Magda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:38:04 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "William Black"
> <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
> this:
>
> ...
> ... "sharx35" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> ... news:fLyyi.87$Pd4.76@edtnps82...
> ...
> ... > Those guys who are saddled with "high maintenance" wives, take note.
> ... >
> ... >
> ...
> ... Define 'high maintenance' in this case please.
>
> Do you really need further explanation?
>

I do need further explanation, I don't even understand the explanation he
posted.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

Giovanni Drogo

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007, me wrote:

> Actually, it is more of a case of society organizing itself around
> the presumption that one will have a cell phone.

Unfortunately. Which explains why coin operated phone boots are
disappearing. Which I regret.

> We passed innumerable signs for various services on these
> mountain paths, all listing phone numbers to call.

Just for the sake of curiosity, which country are you talking of ?

The only reason by which I could consider to consider the opportunity of
having a cell phone was the insistence of my mother about having one
during walks in the mountains. Then during a walk with a guy (which is a
volunteer for "soccorso alpino" and actually had a cell phone) I
discovered in most of our Alps there is no coverage.

In a different "organization" could your "signs for services" in a
presumably poorly populated area be replaced by "totem poles" with
hardwired phone access to the service (sort of those things do exist in
the Alps to call for first aid in case of accidents) ?

> Society is organizing itself around the presumption of a mobile phone.
> It is not much different than when it organized itself around a check
> book. It is rapidly doing so with respect to ATM's and debit cards.
> It long ago did with respect to credit cards. (Try renting a car in
> the US without one).

It might be partially also a matter of perception of (economic)
convenience. Which may vary place to place. You mention that credit
cards in the US were popular much before ATM debit cards. Things are
different elsewhere.

I got my first credit card in Italy around 1988, only because I had to
make a mission to US. At the time there was some convenience in using a
credit card (the yearly fee was rather small, the payment occurred up to
2 months later, and the interest rate on current account was high enough
that the small interest on the delayed payment covered the fee even with
little usage).

Then ATM debit cards came (in this country usually optionally linked
with credit card functions), with no fee at all for withdrawal at any
bank and diffused very fast.

Then the state imposed a tax on credit cards (more or less at the same
time it was imposing a tax on the first cell phones), while interest
rates were going down, and I just surrendered my credit card, because it
was not convenient for my usage rate.

I just went along with my ATM card. In the meanwhile banks adopted a fee
for ATM withdrawals using other bank cards. I tend to make use of my ATM
card as Pagobancomat (debit card in shops and offices) to avoid carrying
cash, but I do withdrawals only from my bank ATMs in order not to pay
the 2.7 eur per withdrawal fee.

Later I re-enabled my ATM card to be also a credit card, but that was
because the state tax was dropped, and the yearly fee was reduced. Even
if now my personal yearly fee is zero (but that's not an usual deal), I
use my credit card rarely (when travelling abroad, or to pay for a
deferred service) because there is still a 1 eur monthly fee on the
account statement.

And I'm rather wary of using my card with vending machines (e.g. ticket
selling) even for small amounts because of the possibility of it getting
lost or damaged by an unattended device.

Similarly one of the further reasons not to have a cell phone (one is
the habit of not needing to be contacted when out of home or office ;
the other is that my nearby sight is getting poor and the displays are
too small to be seen without changing glasses) is the fact I do not like
to carry around a fragile object which could be damaged or stolen, or
the fact that the fare system here is a jungle [also elsewhere I
understand] ... so I have the impression I could be paying far in excess
of the "right".

Curiously enough this last issue (value vs money) seems to affect here
in Italy the diffusion of credit cards but not of cell phones. Much more
people have a cell phone and spend sums to "recharge" it, while the same
people do not have a credit card to avoid paying the fee.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected] is a newsreading account used by more persons to
avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected.
Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so.

-Magda

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:35:57 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "William Black"
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

...
... "sharx35" <[email protected]> wrote in message
... news:UOAyi.95$Pd4.84@edtnps82...
... >
...
... > And what are the odds about breaking your leg on a hike in Connecticut and
... > someone NOT coming along with seconds? I've hiked all over the Canadian
... > Rockies WITHOUT breaking my leg and WITHOUT a cell phone OR a GPS unit.
... > Never got lost. Never got injured. You pansies are a bunch of nervous
... > Nellies who can't get off the electronic teat.
...
... He's going to die, lonely and afraid...

As did all of our ancestors since the beginning of time - until cell phones were
invented... pp

-Magda

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:35:13 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "William Black"
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

...
... "sharx35" <[email protected]> wrote in message
... news:7KAyi.91$Pd4.28@edtnps82...
... >
... > "William Black" <[email protected]> wrote in message
... > news:[email protected]...
... >>
... >> "sharx35" <[email protected]> wrote in message
... >> news:fLyyi.87$Pd4.76@edtnps82...
... >>
... >>> Those guys who are saddled with "high maintenance" wives, take note.
... >>
... >> Define 'high maintenance' in this case please.
... >
... > In a nutshell? Demanding entitlement bitches who think that their butt is
... > made out of gold.
...
... Well the words seem to be in English but they don't make any sense.
...
... Does anyone know what this means?

Yes. He is right, too.