Hassles in Europe?
Mar 21st 2002, 11:06 am
#91
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
I espied that on 21 Mar 2002, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:02:30 +0100, "Gianandrea Gobbo"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I've never heard any British claming to be "from the continent"!
>>
>
> Soon put that right. "I'm British, and I'm from the Continent". Sorry, couldn't
> resist that. It's true though.
To get back to the Brit's expectations of a "Continental Breakfast" in Hawaii,
though: it's a bit ironic, as the version provided in many British hotels is little
more than a couple of slices of toast with jam.
That's not what I'd call a continental breakfast.
And I should know: I'm British, and I've VISITED the continent.....
--
Cheers, Harvey
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:02:30 +0100, "Gianandrea Gobbo"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I've never heard any British claming to be "from the continent"!
>>
>
> Soon put that right. "I'm British, and I'm from the Continent". Sorry, couldn't
> resist that. It's true though.
To get back to the Brit's expectations of a "Continental Breakfast" in Hawaii,
though: it's a bit ironic, as the version provided in many British hotels is little
more than a couple of slices of toast with jam.
That's not what I'd call a continental breakfast.
And I should know: I'm British, and I've VISITED the continent.....
--
Cheers, Harvey
Mar 21st 2002, 12:05 pm
#92
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote:
: On 20 Mar 2002 09:36:13 GMT, Jani Patokallio <[email protected]> wrote:
:>Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
:>: IIFC... only about 35% of U.S. currency is within the U.S. geographical boarders
:>: at any time. No world currency comes close to it in market opportunities. The
:>: U.S. Dollar is the most secure monetary instrument in the world.
:>
:>That's a non sequitur. The U.S. dollar is backed up solely by the people's faith in
:>the U.S. government, and its value will plummet the moment people lose confidence
:>and/or the gov't starts running the printing presses overtime.
: Unfortunately for Europeans should that happen, since European central banks hold
: US dollars as reserves.
_In_ their reserves; you'll find quite a few cubic meters of gold in Frankfurt
as well...
Along these lines, an interesting catastrophe scenario was floated during the days of
Y2K hysteria. One of, if not the, largest holder of US Federal Reserve bonds are
Japanese banks. Now, a bond is essentially a loan, in which the buyer gives money to
the government and the government promises to pay it back with interest. *If* the
Japanese banks were caught in a liquidity crunch -- say, bank runs during Y2K,
although obviously this never happened -- they would be forced to call in their
bonds. According to the calculations of the doomsters, the US government could not
repay all the bonds held by the Japanese, and things would soon become
Interesting(tm) indeed...
* * *
And again, I'm not expecting that this is going to happen anytime soon, the Japanese
banking sector is in crisis but their problems is bad loans. But it's still an
interesting illustration of how fragile the world financial markets could in be in
the wrong situation...
Cheers,
--
Jani Patokallio >O._, This day will not come again. [email protected] `..' Each minute
is worth a priceless gem. -Takuan
: On 20 Mar 2002 09:36:13 GMT, Jani Patokallio <[email protected]> wrote:
:>Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
:>: IIFC... only about 35% of U.S. currency is within the U.S. geographical boarders
:>: at any time. No world currency comes close to it in market opportunities. The
:>: U.S. Dollar is the most secure monetary instrument in the world.
:>
:>That's a non sequitur. The U.S. dollar is backed up solely by the people's faith in
:>the U.S. government, and its value will plummet the moment people lose confidence
:>and/or the gov't starts running the printing presses overtime.
: Unfortunately for Europeans should that happen, since European central banks hold
: US dollars as reserves.
_In_ their reserves; you'll find quite a few cubic meters of gold in Frankfurt
as well...
Along these lines, an interesting catastrophe scenario was floated during the days of
Y2K hysteria. One of, if not the, largest holder of US Federal Reserve bonds are
Japanese banks. Now, a bond is essentially a loan, in which the buyer gives money to
the government and the government promises to pay it back with interest. *If* the
Japanese banks were caught in a liquidity crunch -- say, bank runs during Y2K,
although obviously this never happened -- they would be forced to call in their
bonds. According to the calculations of the doomsters, the US government could not
repay all the bonds held by the Japanese, and things would soon become
Interesting(tm) indeed...
* * *
And again, I'm not expecting that this is going to happen anytime soon, the Japanese
banking sector is in crisis but their problems is bad loans. But it's still an
interesting illustration of how fragile the world financial markets could in be in
the wrong situation...
Cheers,
--
Jani Patokallio >O._, This day will not come again. [email protected] `..' Each minute
is worth a priceless gem. -Takuan
Mar 21st 2002, 12:05 pm
#93
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
: In article <[email protected]>, Jani Patokallio <[email protected]> wrote:
:> Err, I didn't cut out a single word you wrote. The preceding discussion was about
:> Ugly Americans being snippy about furriners not accepting their Real Money(tm),
:> which doesn't seem too relevant to, um, anything at all.
[snippysnip]
: That is some of the perspective of traverlers w/ U.S. dollars... it is accepted
: everywhere.
Yes, and if you'll read my original post you'll see that I agree with you -- the US$
is the most *convenient* monetary instrument. But...
:> Now, if you'd care to explain *why* the greenback is so secure, I'm all ears...
: Well in the very little trade the U.S. does with Finland... which currency do you
: think the contracts were negotiated in ? Do you think there was a difference
: between import and export in the currency used ?
Most invoices are in the home currency of the seller. Remember, there are two parties
in each transaction, whenever the exchange rate changes one of them gains and the
other loses. US companies prefer to be paid in dollars, Finnish companies preferred
to be paid in marks. For a Finn, the US dollar is not more "secure", because if the
Finnish mark gains in strength it becomes worth less, and this also happened on a
number of occasions. (Between 1980 and 2000, the USD:FIM ratio has oscillated between
1:4 and 1:7.)
Of course, you could _predict_ that the US dollar is going to become stronger and
take your money in dollars, but that's currency speculation and, as noted above, you
would have been taken to the cleaners for making that guess at the wrong time.
* * *
So, a secure currency is one that does not oscillate in value and, more importantly,
has a solid backing. I'm not saying the Finnish mark is any better than the US$,
overall it's been worse, but there are some currencies that appear far more secure.
The Swiss franc, for one, has a very long track record of dependability; it's backed
by 1,300 tons of physical, real gold in the vaults of Zürich; and the law requires
that the currency must remain backed. (And before some nitpicker gets to me, no, as
of 2000 Switzerland is no longer strictly on the gold standard, but the new
legislation doesn't change much in practice.)
Cheers,
--
Jani Patokallio >O._, This day will not come again. [email protected] `..' Each minute
is worth a priceless gem. -Takuan
: In article <[email protected]>, Jani Patokallio <[email protected]> wrote:
:> Err, I didn't cut out a single word you wrote. The preceding discussion was about
:> Ugly Americans being snippy about furriners not accepting their Real Money(tm),
:> which doesn't seem too relevant to, um, anything at all.
[snippysnip]
: That is some of the perspective of traverlers w/ U.S. dollars... it is accepted
: everywhere.
Yes, and if you'll read my original post you'll see that I agree with you -- the US$
is the most *convenient* monetary instrument. But...
:> Now, if you'd care to explain *why* the greenback is so secure, I'm all ears...
: Well in the very little trade the U.S. does with Finland... which currency do you
: think the contracts were negotiated in ? Do you think there was a difference
: between import and export in the currency used ?
Most invoices are in the home currency of the seller. Remember, there are two parties
in each transaction, whenever the exchange rate changes one of them gains and the
other loses. US companies prefer to be paid in dollars, Finnish companies preferred
to be paid in marks. For a Finn, the US dollar is not more "secure", because if the
Finnish mark gains in strength it becomes worth less, and this also happened on a
number of occasions. (Between 1980 and 2000, the USD:FIM ratio has oscillated between
1:4 and 1:7.)
Of course, you could _predict_ that the US dollar is going to become stronger and
take your money in dollars, but that's currency speculation and, as noted above, you
would have been taken to the cleaners for making that guess at the wrong time.
* * *
So, a secure currency is one that does not oscillate in value and, more importantly,
has a solid backing. I'm not saying the Finnish mark is any better than the US$,
overall it's been worse, but there are some currencies that appear far more secure.
The Swiss franc, for one, has a very long track record of dependability; it's backed
by 1,300 tons of physical, real gold in the vaults of Zürich; and the law requires
that the currency must remain backed. (And before some nitpicker gets to me, no, as
of 2000 Switzerland is no longer strictly on the gold standard, but the new
legislation doesn't change much in practice.)
Cheers,
--
Jani Patokallio >O._, This day will not come again. [email protected] `..' Each minute
is worth a priceless gem. -Takuan
Mar 21st 2002, 1:35 pm
#94
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:02:30 +0100, "Gianandrea Gobbo" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"K.Kosuge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> At any rate, arrogant loudmouths come in all nationalities. I checking into a
>> hotel in Honolulu when a gentleman from the UK (judging from his accent) charged
>> up to the desk ranting loudly about the free "Continental Breakfast" set up in the
>> lobby. He berated the poor desk clerk unmercifully for way too long. Then he
>> capped his argument of with, "That is NOT a continental breakfast! I should know,
>> after all--I'm FROM the continent!"
>>
>
>It was a fake! I've never heard any British claming to be "from the continent"!
>
You can believe me or not, but, it wasn't a fake story or a troll. I'm the one who
posted & it really happened. Heard it with my own two ears, April 2000 at the Waikiki
Royal Suites Hotel. The reason I remember it so clearly is because it was such a dumb
thing to say!
Karen
>
>"K.Kosuge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> At any rate, arrogant loudmouths come in all nationalities. I checking into a
>> hotel in Honolulu when a gentleman from the UK (judging from his accent) charged
>> up to the desk ranting loudly about the free "Continental Breakfast" set up in the
>> lobby. He berated the poor desk clerk unmercifully for way too long. Then he
>> capped his argument of with, "That is NOT a continental breakfast! I should know,
>> after all--I'm FROM the continent!"
>>
>
>It was a fake! I've never heard any British claming to be "from the continent"!
>
You can believe me or not, but, it wasn't a fake story or a troll. I'm the one who
posted & it really happened. Heard it with my own two ears, April 2000 at the Waikiki
Royal Suites Hotel. The reason I remember it so clearly is because it was such a dumb
thing to say!
Karen
Mar 21st 2002, 3:05 pm
#95
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
In article <[email protected]>, "Gianandrea Gobbo"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "K.Kosuge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > At any rate, arrogant loudmouths come in all nationalities. I checking into a
> > hotel in Honolulu when a gentleman from the UK (judging from his accent) charged
> > up to the desk ranting loudly about the free "Continental Breakfast" set up in
> > the lobby. He berated the poor desk clerk unmercifully for way too long. Then he
> > capped his argument of with, "That is NOT a continental breakfast! I should know,
> > after all--I'm FROM the continent!"
> >
>
> It was a fake! I've never heard any British claming to be "from the continent"!
Good point and Brits don't have 'continental breakfasts' -- they have 'full English
breakfasts' which you can get throughout the 'empire'. However, they do have their
fair share of a**holes and snotty tourists who might well decide that this would be a
helpful phrase when denigrating some hapless American clerk over breakfast. While I
am occasionally offended or embarrassed by my fellow yanks as tourists, the British
give us a run for the money in snottyness when things are not to their exacting
standards. And don't get me started on some of the Germans I have encountered in 40
years of international travel. On the other hand, most people from most countries are
well intentioned and considerate and let's face it, the jerk tourists are probably
not everyone's favorite guest in their home towns either.
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "K.Kosuge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > At any rate, arrogant loudmouths come in all nationalities. I checking into a
> > hotel in Honolulu when a gentleman from the UK (judging from his accent) charged
> > up to the desk ranting loudly about the free "Continental Breakfast" set up in
> > the lobby. He berated the poor desk clerk unmercifully for way too long. Then he
> > capped his argument of with, "That is NOT a continental breakfast! I should know,
> > after all--I'm FROM the continent!"
> >
>
> It was a fake! I've never heard any British claming to be "from the continent"!
Good point and Brits don't have 'continental breakfasts' -- they have 'full English
breakfasts' which you can get throughout the 'empire'. However, they do have their
fair share of a**holes and snotty tourists who might well decide that this would be a
helpful phrase when denigrating some hapless American clerk over breakfast. While I
am occasionally offended or embarrassed by my fellow yanks as tourists, the British
give us a run for the money in snottyness when things are not to their exacting
standards. And don't get me started on some of the Germans I have encountered in 40
years of international travel. On the other hand, most people from most countries are
well intentioned and considerate and let's face it, the jerk tourists are probably
not everyone's favorite guest in their home towns either.
Mar 21st 2002, 3:40 pm
#96
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
Maybe he wasn't a Brit. Maybe he WAS from the (European continent) and just spoke
very good english. That's not unheard of, you know.
very good english. That's not unheard of, you know.
Mar 21st 2002, 3:40 pm
#97
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
I espied that on 21 Mar 2002, [email protected] (hamilton) wrote:
-snip-
> On the other hand, most people from most countries are well intentioned and
> considerate and let's face it, the jerk tourists are probably not everyone's
> favorite guest in their home towns either.
As well, it's obviously the jerks that one notices. The greater number of people who
either blend in quietly or who are happy to be part of a well-behaved tour group
won't, by definition, be as noticeable as the loud-mouthed ones.
--
Cheers, Harvey
-snip-
> On the other hand, most people from most countries are well intentioned and
> considerate and let's face it, the jerk tourists are probably not everyone's
> favorite guest in their home towns either.
As well, it's obviously the jerks that one notices. The greater number of people who
either blend in quietly or who are happy to be part of a well-behaved tour group
won't, by definition, be as noticeable as the loud-mouthed ones.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Mar 21st 2002, 3:40 pm
#98
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
In article <[email protected]>, Jani Patokallio <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> So, a secure currency is one that does not oscillate in value and, more
> importantly, has a solid backing. I'm not saying the Finnish mark is any better
> than the US$, overall it's been worse, but there are some currencies that appear
> far more secure. The Swiss franc, for one, has a very long track record of
> dependability; it's backed by 1,300 tons of physical, real gold in the vaults of
> Zürich; and the law requires that the currency must remain backed. (And before some
> nitpicker gets to me, no, as of 2000 Switzerland is no longer strictly on the gold
> standard, but the new legislation doesn't change much in practice.)
Thanx for the discussion.
Finland, like the U.S., is very dependant on foreign energy. Many of these payments
are done in U.S. dollars... but that would depend on which country you buy from....
Speculation in currency markets is extremely risky... the big boys on the block have
far too much influence in the spot market. In the 80s I made my money in foreign
currencies... thankfully for me... I made yen at about 220:1 and then it fell and
fell.. it was an incredible windfall for me... I was not so lucky with my Lira,FF and
the D-mark.
While the U.S. has been off the gold standard for more than 30 years... they do
maintain vast reserves in gold in (4) locations... most notably is Fort Knox.
As a sidebar: Fort Knox is a mystery to Americans... it is one of the few places in
America where you can be arrested for taking pictures of
it... but you cant even get close to it. Moreover, there has only been one (that I
know of) documentary film on it and a visit to it requires a PRESIDENTIAL ORDER.
In fact 'Conspiracy theorists' believe that much of it was transferred to the UK
to keep the dollar artificially high back in the 60s. This documentary film was
authorized, in part, to dispel those concerns... they showed the vault... with
stuff that was at least gold in color.
You can see the official value of the gold reserves from '99 look here:
http://www.fms.treas.gov/gold/99-05.html
In Closing, again, I make no excuses for americans and their naivety in currency
usage... but I can appreciate their perspective.
But far more than that... we ALL should be concerned that this #1 attraction of Paris
did not take Credit Cards or EFT cards... as I believe was mentioned.
Regards
jay Thu, Mar 21, 2002 mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."
>
> So, a secure currency is one that does not oscillate in value and, more
> importantly, has a solid backing. I'm not saying the Finnish mark is any better
> than the US$, overall it's been worse, but there are some currencies that appear
> far more secure. The Swiss franc, for one, has a very long track record of
> dependability; it's backed by 1,300 tons of physical, real gold in the vaults of
> Zürich; and the law requires that the currency must remain backed. (And before some
> nitpicker gets to me, no, as of 2000 Switzerland is no longer strictly on the gold
> standard, but the new legislation doesn't change much in practice.)
Thanx for the discussion.
Finland, like the U.S., is very dependant on foreign energy. Many of these payments
are done in U.S. dollars... but that would depend on which country you buy from....
Speculation in currency markets is extremely risky... the big boys on the block have
far too much influence in the spot market. In the 80s I made my money in foreign
currencies... thankfully for me... I made yen at about 220:1 and then it fell and
fell.. it was an incredible windfall for me... I was not so lucky with my Lira,FF and
the D-mark.
While the U.S. has been off the gold standard for more than 30 years... they do
maintain vast reserves in gold in (4) locations... most notably is Fort Knox.
As a sidebar: Fort Knox is a mystery to Americans... it is one of the few places in
America where you can be arrested for taking pictures of
it... but you cant even get close to it. Moreover, there has only been one (that I
know of) documentary film on it and a visit to it requires a PRESIDENTIAL ORDER.
In fact 'Conspiracy theorists' believe that much of it was transferred to the UK
to keep the dollar artificially high back in the 60s. This documentary film was
authorized, in part, to dispel those concerns... they showed the vault... with
stuff that was at least gold in color.
You can see the official value of the gold reserves from '99 look here:
http://www.fms.treas.gov/gold/99-05.html
In Closing, again, I make no excuses for americans and their naivety in currency
usage... but I can appreciate their perspective.
But far more than that... we ALL should be concerned that this #1 attraction of Paris
did not take Credit Cards or EFT cards... as I believe was mentioned.
Regards
jay Thu, Mar 21, 2002 mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."
Mar 21st 2002, 4:13 pm
#99
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
steak for lunch and dinner every day for weeks.
they're not eating that weird EYEtalian food.
;-}
"K.Kosuge" wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:26:12 -0600, anonymouse <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >OH it happens.
> >
> >we were on a "group trip" with some people in the cattle business (mainly looking
> >at Chianina cattle in italy) and despite the loads of delicious local cuisine a
> >few people insisted on a 'STEAK' for lunch and dinner.
>
> A "few people" insisted on steak? Was it not on the menu or something? I don't get
> the faux pas here.
>
> At any rate, arrogant loudmouths come in all nationalities. I checking into a hotel
> in Honolulu when a gentleman from the UK (judging from his accent) charged up to
> the desk ranting loudly about the free "Continental Breakfast" set up in the lobby.
> He berated the poor desk clerk unmercifully for way too long. Then he capped his
> argument of with, "That is NOT a continental breakfast! I should know, after
> all--I'm FROM the continent!"
>
> I'm sure we all have stories like this and they're not all about American tourists.
>
> Karen
they're not eating that weird EYEtalian food.
;-}
"K.Kosuge" wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:26:12 -0600, anonymouse <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >OH it happens.
> >
> >we were on a "group trip" with some people in the cattle business (mainly looking
> >at Chianina cattle in italy) and despite the loads of delicious local cuisine a
> >few people insisted on a 'STEAK' for lunch and dinner.
>
> A "few people" insisted on steak? Was it not on the menu or something? I don't get
> the faux pas here.
>
> At any rate, arrogant loudmouths come in all nationalities. I checking into a hotel
> in Honolulu when a gentleman from the UK (judging from his accent) charged up to
> the desk ranting loudly about the free "Continental Breakfast" set up in the lobby.
> He berated the poor desk clerk unmercifully for way too long. Then he capped his
> argument of with, "That is NOT a continental breakfast! I should know, after
> all--I'm FROM the continent!"
>
> I'm sure we all have stories like this and they're not all about American tourists.
>
> Karen
Mar 21st 2002, 4:13 pm
#100
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
On 21 Mar 2002 12:41:05 GMT, Jani Patokallio <[email protected]> wrote:
>Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>: Well in the very little trade the U.S. does with Finland... which currency do you
>: think the contracts were negotiated in ? Do you think there was a difference
>: between import and export in the currency used ?
>
>Most invoices are in the home currency of the seller.
Probably true for smaller transactions, but at least until the advnet of the euro it
was fairly common for European contracts to be denoted in US dollars; this is, in
fact, one fo the sources and uses of the Eurodollar.
[...]
>So, a secure currency is one that does not oscillate in value and, more importantly,
>has a solid backing. I'm not saying the Finnish mark is any better than the US$,
>overall it's been worse, but there are some currencies that appear far more secure.
What Finnish mark? There hasn't been a Finnish mark for years now.
******* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *******
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******
>Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>: Well in the very little trade the U.S. does with Finland... which currency do you
>: think the contracts were negotiated in ? Do you think there was a difference
>: between import and export in the currency used ?
>
>Most invoices are in the home currency of the seller.
Probably true for smaller transactions, but at least until the advnet of the euro it
was fairly common for European contracts to be denoted in US dollars; this is, in
fact, one fo the sources and uses of the Eurodollar.
[...]
>So, a secure currency is one that does not oscillate in value and, more importantly,
>has a solid backing. I'm not saying the Finnish mark is any better than the US$,
>overall it's been worse, but there are some currencies that appear far more secure.
What Finnish mark? There hasn't been a Finnish mark for years now.
******* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *******
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******
Mar 21st 2002, 4:13 pm
#101
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:04:56 GMT, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>As a sidebar: Fort Knox is a mystery to Americans... it is one of the few places in
>America where you can be arrested for taking pictures of
>it... but you cant even get close to it.
Nonsense. I was stationed at Fort Knox when I was in the Army, and you can take
pictures all you like outside; the Dixie Highway passes close by. The depository is
located in a copse where the trees talk if you enter, but the copse is fairly small.
In fact, the officer's golf course is adjacent to the depository and a sliced ball
can easily land in the trees. The golfer will be watched as he retrieves his ball but
it is no big deal.
On the other hand, the depository location at the T-intersection of Gold Vault Road
and Bullion Boulevard (honest!) can lead to, um, situations. An Army acquaitnance got
in big trouble one night when he and his friends got roaring drunk and simply drove
through the intersection and up to the gate. he says searchlight sent on, men with
machine guns came running out and a general movie-like situation came about. Then,
like a drunken fool, when the driver asked him to switch places becuase he, the
driver, didn't have a valid drivers license my friend cheerfully agreed.
I have a 1950s topo map of the vicinity of the Gold Vault and it shows extensive
sinkholing near the vault (this area has karst geology) and legend had it that the
gold was in the many caves under that area. The other legend was that there never was
any gold in the depository, that it was a decoy.
The move "Goldfinger" rather accurately shows the depository up to the moment they
blow up the main gate.
>Moreover, there has only been one (that I know of) documentary film on it and a
>visit to it requires a PRESIDENTIAL ORDER.
I'd like to see a citation for that claim. Of course, it is very difficult to visit
the interior.
>In fact 'Conspiracy theorists' believe that much of it was transferred to the UK to
>keep the dollar artificially high back in the 60s. This documentary film was
>authorized, in part, to dispel those concerns... they showed the vault... with stuff
>that was at least gold in color.
What documentary film?
******* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *******
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******
>As a sidebar: Fort Knox is a mystery to Americans... it is one of the few places in
>America where you can be arrested for taking pictures of
>it... but you cant even get close to it.
Nonsense. I was stationed at Fort Knox when I was in the Army, and you can take
pictures all you like outside; the Dixie Highway passes close by. The depository is
located in a copse where the trees talk if you enter, but the copse is fairly small.
In fact, the officer's golf course is adjacent to the depository and a sliced ball
can easily land in the trees. The golfer will be watched as he retrieves his ball but
it is no big deal.
On the other hand, the depository location at the T-intersection of Gold Vault Road
and Bullion Boulevard (honest!) can lead to, um, situations. An Army acquaitnance got
in big trouble one night when he and his friends got roaring drunk and simply drove
through the intersection and up to the gate. he says searchlight sent on, men with
machine guns came running out and a general movie-like situation came about. Then,
like a drunken fool, when the driver asked him to switch places becuase he, the
driver, didn't have a valid drivers license my friend cheerfully agreed.
I have a 1950s topo map of the vicinity of the Gold Vault and it shows extensive
sinkholing near the vault (this area has karst geology) and legend had it that the
gold was in the many caves under that area. The other legend was that there never was
any gold in the depository, that it was a decoy.
The move "Goldfinger" rather accurately shows the depository up to the moment they
blow up the main gate.
>Moreover, there has only been one (that I know of) documentary film on it and a
>visit to it requires a PRESIDENTIAL ORDER.
I'd like to see a citation for that claim. Of course, it is very difficult to visit
the interior.
>In fact 'Conspiracy theorists' believe that much of it was transferred to the UK to
>keep the dollar artificially high back in the 60s. This documentary film was
>authorized, in part, to dispel those concerns... they showed the vault... with stuff
>that was at least gold in color.
What documentary film?
******* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *******
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******
Mar 21st 2002, 4:38 pm
#102
Just Joined
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4
Re: Hassles in Europe?
I have just returned from Rome, and while it is true that the brashest Americans probably go to the most obvious locations when they "do" Europe, there are still some people who just defy belief, such as the woman I saw in a bar off the Campo di Fiori, wearing her "Proud to be American" t-shirt. Drop the patriotism and just enjoy what a foreign country has to offer - surely that is why you have travelled over in the first place?
For the record, Brits abroad wearing Union Jack t-shirts etc are looked on with scorn by their less navel-gazing countrymen.
For the record, Brits abroad wearing Union Jack t-shirts etc are looked on with scorn by their less navel-gazing countrymen.
Mar 21st 2002, 4:48 pm
#103
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
On 21 Mar 2002 12:49:22 GMT, Jani Patokallio <[email protected]> wrote:
>Along these lines, an interesting catastrophe scenario was floated during the days
>of Y2K hysteria. One of, if not the, largest holder of US Federal Reserve bonds are
>Japanese banks. Now, a bond is essentially a loan, in which the buyer gives money to
>the government and the government promises to pay it back with interest. *If* the
>Japanese banks were caught in a liquidity crunch -- say, bank runs during Y2K,
>although obviously this never happened -- they would be forced to call in their
>bonds. According to the calculations of the doomsters, the US government could not
>repay all the bonds held by the Japanese, and things would soon become
>Interesting(tm) indeed...
Bond holders do not call in bonds; the holder is stuck until maturity or until he can
sell it to someone else. It's the bond-issuer that calls in the bond.
******* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *******
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******
>Along these lines, an interesting catastrophe scenario was floated during the days
>of Y2K hysteria. One of, if not the, largest holder of US Federal Reserve bonds are
>Japanese banks. Now, a bond is essentially a loan, in which the buyer gives money to
>the government and the government promises to pay it back with interest. *If* the
>Japanese banks were caught in a liquidity crunch -- say, bank runs during Y2K,
>although obviously this never happened -- they would be forced to call in their
>bonds. According to the calculations of the doomsters, the US government could not
>repay all the bonds held by the Japanese, and things would soon become
>Interesting(tm) indeed...
Bond holders do not call in bonds; the holder is stuck until maturity or until he can
sell it to someone else. It's the bond-issuer that calls in the bond.
******* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *******
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******
Mar 21st 2002, 5:05 pm
#104
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
(Hatunen) wrote:
> On 21 Mar 2002 12:49:22 GMT, Jani Patokallio <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >Along these lines, an interesting catastrophe scenario was floated during the days
> >of Y2K hysteria. One of, if not the, largest holder of US Federal Reserve bonds
> >are Japanese banks. Now, a bond is essentially a loan, in which the buyer gives
> >money to the government and the government promises to pay it back with interest.
> >*If* the Japanese banks were caught in a liquidity crunch -- say, bank runs during
> >Y2K, although obviously this never happened -- they would be forced to call in
> >their bonds. According to the calculations of the doomsters, the US government
> >could not repay all the bonds held by the Japanese, and things would soon become
> >Interesting(tm) indeed...
>
> Bond holders do not call in bonds; the holder is stuck until maturity or until he
> can sell it to someone else. It's the bond-issuer that calls in the bond.
yes -- but the US debt management depends on people buying up n ew bonds when they
come due. If the Saudis, Japanese and others who hold much of our debt decide not to
re-up, they could crash the system. W underdoubtedly has no clue as he sets about
resolutely increasing the debt once again, after we had just managed to start paying
it down in order to absorb future SS demand.
(Hatunen) wrote:
> On 21 Mar 2002 12:49:22 GMT, Jani Patokallio <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >Along these lines, an interesting catastrophe scenario was floated during the days
> >of Y2K hysteria. One of, if not the, largest holder of US Federal Reserve bonds
> >are Japanese banks. Now, a bond is essentially a loan, in which the buyer gives
> >money to the government and the government promises to pay it back with interest.
> >*If* the Japanese banks were caught in a liquidity crunch -- say, bank runs during
> >Y2K, although obviously this never happened -- they would be forced to call in
> >their bonds. According to the calculations of the doomsters, the US government
> >could not repay all the bonds held by the Japanese, and things would soon become
> >Interesting(tm) indeed...
>
> Bond holders do not call in bonds; the holder is stuck until maturity or until he
> can sell it to someone else. It's the bond-issuer that calls in the bond.
yes -- but the US debt management depends on people buying up n ew bonds when they
come due. If the Saudis, Japanese and others who hold much of our debt decide not to
re-up, they could crash the system. W underdoubtedly has no clue as he sets about
resolutely increasing the debt once again, after we had just managed to start paying
it down in order to absorb future SS demand.
Mar 21st 2002, 5:05 pm
#105
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:46:22 -0600, [email protected] (hamilton) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Hatunen) wrote:
>
>> On 21 Mar 2002 12:49:22 GMT, Jani Patokallio <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Along these lines, an interesting catastrophe scenario was floated during the
>> >days of Y2K hysteria. One of, if not the, largest holder of US Federal Reserve
>> >bonds are Japanese banks. Now, a bond is essentially a loan, in which the buyer
>> >gives money to the government and the government promises to pay it back with
>> >interest. *If* the Japanese banks were caught in a liquidity crunch -- say, bank
>> >runs during Y2K, although obviously this never happened -- they would be forced
>> >to call in their bonds. According to the calculations of the doomsters, the US
>> >government could not repay all the bonds held by the Japanese, and things would
>> >soon become Interesting(tm) indeed...
>>
>> Bond holders do not call in bonds; the holder is stuck until maturity or until he
>> can sell it to someone else. It's the bond-issuer that calls in the bond.
>
>yes -- but the US debt management depends on people buying up n ew bonds when they
>come due.
That may be, but it's meaningless without some knowledge of the maturity dates of
bonds held by the Japanese. In US treasury parlance bonds are long-term, notes are
short term.
>If the Saudis, Japanese and others who hold much of our debt decide not to re-up,
>they could crash the system. W
If ...
When are their bonds due?
>underdoubtedly has no clue as he sets about resolutely increasing the debt once
>again, after we had just managed to start paying it down in order to absorb future
>SS demand.
>
******* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *******
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Hatunen) wrote:
>
>> On 21 Mar 2002 12:49:22 GMT, Jani Patokallio <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Along these lines, an interesting catastrophe scenario was floated during the
>> >days of Y2K hysteria. One of, if not the, largest holder of US Federal Reserve
>> >bonds are Japanese banks. Now, a bond is essentially a loan, in which the buyer
>> >gives money to the government and the government promises to pay it back with
>> >interest. *If* the Japanese banks were caught in a liquidity crunch -- say, bank
>> >runs during Y2K, although obviously this never happened -- they would be forced
>> >to call in their bonds. According to the calculations of the doomsters, the US
>> >government could not repay all the bonds held by the Japanese, and things would
>> >soon become Interesting(tm) indeed...
>>
>> Bond holders do not call in bonds; the holder is stuck until maturity or until he
>> can sell it to someone else. It's the bond-issuer that calls in the bond.
>
>yes -- but the US debt management depends on people buying up n ew bonds when they
>come due.
That may be, but it's meaningless without some knowledge of the maturity dates of
bonds held by the Japanese. In US treasury parlance bonds are long-term, notes are
short term.
>If the Saudis, Japanese and others who hold much of our debt decide not to re-up,
>they could crash the system. W
If ...
When are their bonds due?
>underdoubtedly has no clue as he sets about resolutely increasing the debt once
>again, after we had just managed to start paying it down in order to absorb future
>SS demand.
>
******* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *******
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******