Hassles in Europe?
Mar 19th 2002, 2:06 am
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
"Deep Fried Mars" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I think the point that Aramis was trying to make is that it carries along with an
> undesirable stereotype.
>
> IMO, nationalism is best left at home.
I wouldn't think that a university sweatshirt would be considered "nationalistic."
Thanks for all the responses, though.
news:[email protected]...
> I think the point that Aramis was trying to make is that it carries along with an
> undesirable stereotype.
>
> IMO, nationalism is best left at home.
I wouldn't think that a university sweatshirt would be considered "nationalistic."
Thanks for all the responses, though.
Mar 19th 2002, 2:06 am
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
Deep Fried Mars wrote:
> "Tom Terwilliger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Aramis" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > > 2. No one wants to see your "UCLA" or "Texas A&M", or any other flag waving
> > > "look at me I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it"
> > > logo wear. Leave it at home.
> >
> > While I agree with your idea to not wear clothes emblazoned with a lot of logos,
> > I take umbrage with the idea that Americans wear them with the idea of " look at
> > me I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it". Guess what -
> > we wear the same clothes at home, where we don't have to proudly proclaim that
> > we're American. Personally, I think such clothing is too casual for wearing on
> > one's trip to Europe, but I wouldn't think twice about seeing a couple of
> > backpack-laden college students with UCLA shirts on.
> >
> > TT
> >
>
> I think the point that Aramis was trying to make is that it carries along with an
> undesirable stereotype.
>
> IMO, nationalism is best left at home.
What do you think about people, then, who might wear clothing from European
universities while on holiday in the States?
It's quite a leap from school pride to nationalism.
A.
> "Tom Terwilliger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Aramis" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > > 2. No one wants to see your "UCLA" or "Texas A&M", or any other flag waving
> > > "look at me I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it"
> > > logo wear. Leave it at home.
> >
> > While I agree with your idea to not wear clothes emblazoned with a lot of logos,
> > I take umbrage with the idea that Americans wear them with the idea of " look at
> > me I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it". Guess what -
> > we wear the same clothes at home, where we don't have to proudly proclaim that
> > we're American. Personally, I think such clothing is too casual for wearing on
> > one's trip to Europe, but I wouldn't think twice about seeing a couple of
> > backpack-laden college students with UCLA shirts on.
> >
> > TT
> >
>
> I think the point that Aramis was trying to make is that it carries along with an
> undesirable stereotype.
>
> IMO, nationalism is best left at home.
What do you think about people, then, who might wear clothing from European
universities while on holiday in the States?
It's quite a leap from school pride to nationalism.
A.
Mar 19th 2002, 3:06 am
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
In article <[email protected]>, "Deep Fried Mars"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Tom Terwilliger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Aramis" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > > 2. No one wants to see your "UCLA" or "Texas A&M", or any other flag waving
> > > "look at me I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it"
> > > logo wear. Leave it at home.
> >
> > While I agree with your idea to not wear clothes emblazoned with a lot of logos,
> > I take umbrage with the idea that Americans wear them with the idea of " look at
> > me I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it". Guess what -
> > we wear the same clothes at home, where we don't have to proudly proclaim that
> > we're American. Personally, I think such clothing is too casual for wearing on
> > one's trip to Europe, but I wouldn't think twice about seeing a couple of
> > backpack-laden college students with UCLA shirts on.
> >
> > TT
> >
>
>
> I think the point that Aramis was trying to make is that it carries along with an
> undesirable stereotype.
>
> IMO, nationalism is best left at home.
> --
> DFM
I think it is just the usual anti-American nonsense. And that if you see a UCLA shirt
, it is likely to be worn by a young European anyway.
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Tom Terwilliger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Aramis" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > > 2. No one wants to see your "UCLA" or "Texas A&M", or any other flag waving
> > > "look at me I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it"
> > > logo wear. Leave it at home.
> >
> > While I agree with your idea to not wear clothes emblazoned with a lot of logos,
> > I take umbrage with the idea that Americans wear them with the idea of " look at
> > me I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it". Guess what -
> > we wear the same clothes at home, where we don't have to proudly proclaim that
> > we're American. Personally, I think such clothing is too casual for wearing on
> > one's trip to Europe, but I wouldn't think twice about seeing a couple of
> > backpack-laden college students with UCLA shirts on.
> >
> > TT
> >
>
>
> I think the point that Aramis was trying to make is that it carries along with an
> undesirable stereotype.
>
> IMO, nationalism is best left at home.
> --
> DFM
I think it is just the usual anti-American nonsense. And that if you see a UCLA shirt
, it is likely to be worn by a young European anyway.
Mar 19th 2002, 3:06 am
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> Deep Fried Mars wrote:
>
> > "Tom Terwilliger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Aramis" <[email protected]> wrote
> > >
> > > > 2. No one wants to see your "UCLA" or "Texas A&M", or any other flag waving
> > > > "look at me I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it"
> > > > logo wear. Leave it at home.
> > >
> > > While I agree with your idea to not wear clothes emblazoned with a lot of
> > > logos, I take umbrage with the idea that Americans wear them with the idea of "
> > > look at me I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it".
> > > Guess what - we wear the same clothes at home, where we don't have to proudly
> > > proclaim that we're American. Personally, I think such clothing is too casual
> > > for wearing on one's trip to Europe, but I wouldn't think twice about seeing a
> > > couple of backpack-laden college students with UCLA shirts on.
> > >
> > > TT
> > >
> >
> > I think the point that Aramis was trying to make is that it carries along with an
> > undesirable stereotype.
> >
> > IMO, nationalism is best left at home.
>
> What do you think about people, then, who might wear clothing from European
> universities while on holiday in the States?
>
> It's quite a leap from school pride to nationalism.
>
> A.
The real joke here is that it is [or has been] a European fad to wear American logos
and English phrases on shirts etc. You are far more like to find a young French or
Italian kid in such silliness than an American. It was at one point so hilarious that
apparently companies just randomly printed phrases in English to give it that 'logo-
USA' look. I bought a tshirt for my son in Italy that literally looked like they had
printed some of the instructions from a bill of lading. One sees the same sort of
thing in Asia.
> Deep Fried Mars wrote:
>
> > "Tom Terwilliger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Aramis" <[email protected]> wrote
> > >
> > > > 2. No one wants to see your "UCLA" or "Texas A&M", or any other flag waving
> > > > "look at me I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it"
> > > > logo wear. Leave it at home.
> > >
> > > While I agree with your idea to not wear clothes emblazoned with a lot of
> > > logos, I take umbrage with the idea that Americans wear them with the idea of "
> > > look at me I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it".
> > > Guess what - we wear the same clothes at home, where we don't have to proudly
> > > proclaim that we're American. Personally, I think such clothing is too casual
> > > for wearing on one's trip to Europe, but I wouldn't think twice about seeing a
> > > couple of backpack-laden college students with UCLA shirts on.
> > >
> > > TT
> > >
> >
> > I think the point that Aramis was trying to make is that it carries along with an
> > undesirable stereotype.
> >
> > IMO, nationalism is best left at home.
>
> What do you think about people, then, who might wear clothing from European
> universities while on holiday in the States?
>
> It's quite a leap from school pride to nationalism.
>
> A.
The real joke here is that it is [or has been] a European fad to wear American logos
and English phrases on shirts etc. You are far more like to find a young French or
Italian kid in such silliness than an American. It was at one point so hilarious that
apparently companies just randomly printed phrases in English to give it that 'logo-
USA' look. I bought a tshirt for my son in Italy that literally looked like they had
printed some of the instructions from a bill of lading. One sees the same sort of
thing in Asia.
Mar 19th 2002, 4:06 am
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
Jenn <[email protected]> wrote:
> The real joke here is that it is [or has been] a European fad to wear American
> logos and English phrases on shirts etc. You are far more like to find a young
> French or Italian kid in such silliness than an American.
Traveling in Morocco with one fellow Michigan alum and one not so blessed, we were
amused by the astounding proliferation of Michigan paraphernalia there. Other schools
were slimly represented, if at all, but each day we'd see several (sometimes a dozen)
maize-and-blue M's.
Also popular, as always, were the mysterious "University of College Athletic SPORTS
ball team 100% winners!" style clothing.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
> The real joke here is that it is [or has been] a European fad to wear American
> logos and English phrases on shirts etc. You are far more like to find a young
> French or Italian kid in such silliness than an American.
Traveling in Morocco with one fellow Michigan alum and one not so blessed, we were
amused by the astounding proliferation of Michigan paraphernalia there. Other schools
were slimly represented, if at all, but each day we'd see several (sometimes a dozen)
maize-and-blue M's.
Also popular, as always, were the mysterious "University of College Athletic SPORTS
ball team 100% winners!" style clothing.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Mar 19th 2002, 5:06 am
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:22:26 +0100, "Decobabe" <[email protected]> wrote:
>If you don't make sterotypical slurs on us, we will consider not making them
>about you.
Now, what could be more fair than that? If you don't hit me, I'll consider not
hitting you...
Perhaps we could all put a little effort into ending the interplay of stereotypes
with a pinch more tolerance on both sides...
>If you don't make sterotypical slurs on us, we will consider not making them
>about you.
Now, what could be more fair than that? If you don't hit me, I'll consider not
hitting you...
Perhaps we could all put a little effort into ending the interplay of stereotypes
with a pinch more tolerance on both sides...
Mar 19th 2002, 5:06 am
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 03:48:53 GMT, "Aramis" <[email protected]> wrote:
. . .
>Now I KNOW that not all Americans behave in the ways I noted above. But enough do
>that we are all aware that their can be a negative reaction. Generalizations are a
>part of human nature - humour wouldn't exist without it.
Mean-spirited humor, you mean.
How about being a little sensitive to the fact that this is a perpetually raw issue
on this group and, as you yourself say, "tone it down a little"? A little might go
a long way.
. . .
>Now I KNOW that not all Americans behave in the ways I noted above. But enough do
>that we are all aware that their can be a negative reaction. Generalizations are a
>part of human nature - humour wouldn't exist without it.
Mean-spirited humor, you mean.
How about being a little sensitive to the fact that this is a perpetually raw issue
on this group and, as you yourself say, "tone it down a little"? A little might go
a long way.
Mar 19th 2002, 5:36 am
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
"Deep Fried Mars" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > The French are not arrogant, nor are any other Europeans (except for a
few
> > who post here).
> >
>
> Ha ha!!! Well... sort of!
>
> My girlfriend is French, and she openly admits that her people can be arrogant. I
> personally have never had a problem with them, except in
Paris,
> where customer service can be so bad, that it's a good laugh.
>
> Just keep a sense of humour while you travel!
>
The French Ambassador to UK was recently on UK radio, in a discussion about British
people speaking bad French in France. He was challenged as to if a Parisian waiter
would not get obnoxious with someone speaking poor French. His reply was that a
French waiter would even get shitty with him (the Ambassador) given the chance!
Forget it, and get on with the holiday! (and as per previous advice, you'll be a
tourist first and foremost, so accept it and enjoy it)
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > The French are not arrogant, nor are any other Europeans (except for a
few
> > who post here).
> >
>
> Ha ha!!! Well... sort of!
>
> My girlfriend is French, and she openly admits that her people can be arrogant. I
> personally have never had a problem with them, except in
Paris,
> where customer service can be so bad, that it's a good laugh.
>
> Just keep a sense of humour while you travel!
>
The French Ambassador to UK was recently on UK radio, in a discussion about British
people speaking bad French in France. He was challenged as to if a Parisian waiter
would not get obnoxious with someone speaking poor French. His reply was that a
French waiter would even get shitty with him (the Ambassador) given the chance!
Forget it, and get on with the holiday! (and as per previous advice, you'll be a
tourist first and foremost, so accept it and enjoy it)
Mar 19th 2002, 8:08 am
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
In article <[email protected]>, erilar
<[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "Lurker Steve"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I'm an American planning on making my first trip to Europe soon, and was curious
> > as to which countries would give me the most/least hassles about being American?
> > Sure, those of us in the States make constant jokes about how arrogant the French
> > are, but is it true? How about Germany, Italy, UK, Greece...?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I only know Germany and have never been hassled about being American. On the other
> hand, I speak German fluently.
>
> I have, however, seen American tourists who richly deserve any hassling anyone can
> come up with.
And the rudest tourist I ever saw was a German in Italy.
<[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "Lurker Steve"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I'm an American planning on making my first trip to Europe soon, and was curious
> > as to which countries would give me the most/least hassles about being American?
> > Sure, those of us in the States make constant jokes about how arrogant the French
> > are, but is it true? How about Germany, Italy, UK, Greece...?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I only know Germany and have never been hassled about being American. On the other
> hand, I speak German fluently.
>
> I have, however, seen American tourists who richly deserve any hassling anyone can
> come up with.
And the rudest tourist I ever saw was a German in Italy.
Mar 19th 2002, 8:38 am
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
Excellent list from Aramis (although I'm from the U.S. and I buy shirts from European
universities and wear them here...is there some hidden meaning here?
In addition, rethink your definition of "hassle." Be open to the fact that things are
done differently (I'm not saying that you aren't, but even small, simple things can
throw you off, like how to pay a lunch check). Cultural differences can be
frustrating, especially if it's your first trip and you have jetlag. I've travelled
before with people who get confused, feel outside their comfort zone, and
occasionally snap at someone -- and that someone is usually just trying to do their
job, so he or she feels threatened. And a bad impression has been made. (and I don't
travel with them anymore, for the record)
Keep your eyes open, try to what others are doing and blend in, and don't be afraid
to ask if you don't know what to do (you're a guy, right? I know that's hard
.
People everywhere like to help others, but few like to have to defend themselves and
their way of life.
Sarah
universities and wear them here...is there some hidden meaning here?
In addition, rethink your definition of "hassle." Be open to the fact that things are
done differently (I'm not saying that you aren't, but even small, simple things can
throw you off, like how to pay a lunch check). Cultural differences can be
frustrating, especially if it's your first trip and you have jetlag. I've travelled
before with people who get confused, feel outside their comfort zone, and
occasionally snap at someone -- and that someone is usually just trying to do their
job, so he or she feels threatened. And a bad impression has been made. (and I don't
travel with them anymore, for the record)
Keep your eyes open, try to what others are doing and blend in, and don't be afraid
to ask if you don't know what to do (you're a guy, right? I know that's hard
.People everywhere like to help others, but few like to have to defend themselves and
their way of life.
Sarah
Mar 19th 2002, 9:07 am
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
"Sarah Banick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Excellent list from Aramis (although I'm from the U.S. and I buy shirts
from
> European universities and wear them here...is there some hidden meaning here?
>
> In addition, rethink your definition of "hassle." Be open to the fact that things
> are done differently (I'm not saying that you aren't, but even
small,
> simple things can throw you off, like how to pay a lunch check). Cultural
> differences can be frustrating, especially if it's your first trip and you have
> jetlag. I've travelled before with people who get confused, feel outside their
> comfort zone, and occasionally snap at someone -- and that someone is usually just
> trying to do their job, so he or she feels threatened. And a bad impression has
> been made. (and I don't travel with them anymore, for the record)
>
> Keep your eyes open, try to what others are doing and blend in, and don't
be
> afraid to ask if you don't know what to do (you're a guy, right? I know that's hard
> . People everywhere like to help others, but few like
to
> have to defend themselves and their way of life.
>
> Sarah
>
Well, I think that explains the hidden message in the shirts - very sensible
comments. BTW, even 'locals' get confused - watch an Englishman trying to pay for his
beer in Germany, or a German trying to get coffee in an Italian cafe (all for the
first time, obviously)
news:[email protected]...
> Excellent list from Aramis (although I'm from the U.S. and I buy shirts
from
> European universities and wear them here...is there some hidden meaning here?
>
> In addition, rethink your definition of "hassle." Be open to the fact that things
> are done differently (I'm not saying that you aren't, but even
small,
> simple things can throw you off, like how to pay a lunch check). Cultural
> differences can be frustrating, especially if it's your first trip and you have
> jetlag. I've travelled before with people who get confused, feel outside their
> comfort zone, and occasionally snap at someone -- and that someone is usually just
> trying to do their job, so he or she feels threatened. And a bad impression has
> been made. (and I don't travel with them anymore, for the record)
>
> Keep your eyes open, try to what others are doing and blend in, and don't
be
> afraid to ask if you don't know what to do (you're a guy, right? I know that's hard
>
. People everywhere like to help others, but few liketo
> have to defend themselves and their way of life.
>
> Sarah
>
Well, I think that explains the hidden message in the shirts - very sensible
comments. BTW, even 'locals' get confused - watch an Englishman trying to pay for his
beer in Germany, or a German trying to get coffee in an Italian cafe (all for the
first time, obviously)
Mar 19th 2002, 9:07 am
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:18:29 -0500, "Tom Terwilliger" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Aramis" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> 2. No one wants to see your "UCLA" or "Texas A&M", or any other flag waving "look
>> at me I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it" logo wear.
>> Leave it at home.
>
>While I agree with your idea to not wear clothes emblazoned with a lot of logos, I
>take umbrage with the idea that Americans wear them with the idea of " look at me
>I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it". Guess what - we wear
>the same clothes at home, where we don't have to proudly proclaim that we're
>American. Personally, I think such clothing is too casual for wearing on one's trip
>to Europe, but I wouldn't think twice about seeing a couple of backpack-laden
>college students with UCLA shirts on.
Actually, I've been a bit taken aback to see quite a few non-Americans wearing such
logos. You can imagine my surprise when the young man from the farm adjacent to the
Hatunen family farm in north-central Finland showed up one day wearing a San Jose
Sharks baseball-type cap.
******* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *******
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******
>
>"Aramis" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> 2. No one wants to see your "UCLA" or "Texas A&M", or any other flag waving "look
>> at me I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it" logo wear.
>> Leave it at home.
>
>While I agree with your idea to not wear clothes emblazoned with a lot of logos, I
>take umbrage with the idea that Americans wear them with the idea of " look at me
>I'm an American and I'm over here making sure you all know it". Guess what - we wear
>the same clothes at home, where we don't have to proudly proclaim that we're
>American. Personally, I think such clothing is too casual for wearing on one's trip
>to Europe, but I wouldn't think twice about seeing a couple of backpack-laden
>college students with UCLA shirts on.
Actually, I've been a bit taken aback to see quite a few non-Americans wearing such
logos. You can imagine my surprise when the young man from the farm adjacent to the
Hatunen family farm in north-central Finland showed up one day wearing a San Jose
Sharks baseball-type cap.
******* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *******
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******
Mar 19th 2002, 9:07 am
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
"Hatunen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 03:48:53 GMT, "Aramis" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Well, the French are notorious for sneering at everyone - and with so little
> >reason to look down those long noses too!
>
> I haven't been sneered at in France. I have been sneered at for being American in
> Canada, though.
>
>
This is a breakthrough - I demand that you share you secret with the rest of
Usenet!!! (OK, not the French generally, but certainly French waiters)
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 03:48:53 GMT, "Aramis" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Well, the French are notorious for sneering at everyone - and with so little
> >reason to look down those long noses too!
>
> I haven't been sneered at in France. I have been sneered at for being American in
> Canada, though.
>
>
This is a breakthrough - I demand
that you share you secret with the rest ofUsenet!!! (OK, not the French generally, but certainly French waiters)
Mar 19th 2002, 9:35 am
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
"Lurker Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm an American planning on making my first trip to Europe soon, and was curious as
> to which countries would give me the most/least hassles about being American? Sure,
> those of us in the States make constant jokes about how arrogant the French are,
> but is it true? How about Germany, Italy,
UK,
> Greece...?
>
> Thanks.
>
First of all, I lived in France for 4 years in the late 50's, returned for a holiday
in the 70's, and again a few years ago. I have never found the French to be rude
(except the staring!) or particularly arrogant.
Nor have I noticed in any country in Europe any "hassles" to most American tourists
(we are Canadian, though, but are usually mistaken for Americans), unless the
tourists deserved it by being rude, ignorant or inconsiderate of the fact that
tourists are visitors and should respect cultural differences anywhere they travel.
Demanding that "foreigners" (in their own country!) speak "American," asking "How
much is that in real money," or getting irate because some "foreigner" won't accept
U.S. dollars are good ways to start a "hassle!"
news:[email protected]...
> I'm an American planning on making my first trip to Europe soon, and was curious as
> to which countries would give me the most/least hassles about being American? Sure,
> those of us in the States make constant jokes about how arrogant the French are,
> but is it true? How about Germany, Italy,
UK,
> Greece...?
>
> Thanks.
>
First of all, I lived in France for 4 years in the late 50's, returned for a holiday
in the 70's, and again a few years ago. I have never found the French to be rude
(except the staring!) or particularly arrogant.
Nor have I noticed in any country in Europe any "hassles" to most American tourists
(we are Canadian, though, but are usually mistaken for Americans), unless the
tourists deserved it by being rude, ignorant or inconsiderate of the fact that
tourists are visitors and should respect cultural differences anywhere they travel.
Demanding that "foreigners" (in their own country!) speak "American," asking "How
much is that in real money," or getting irate because some "foreigner" won't accept
U.S. dollars are good ways to start a "hassle!"
Mar 19th 2002, 9:35 am
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hassles in Europe?
Jenn wrote:
>And the rudest tourist I ever saw was a German in Italy.
You should have seen them in France, Poland and the Soviet Union in the
forties. SCNR.
And obviously, you haven't been to El Arenal, Mallorca, Spain.
Jens
>And the rudest tourist I ever saw was a German in Italy.
You should have seen them in France, Poland and the Soviet Union in the
forties. SCNR.
And obviously, you haven't been to El Arenal, Mallorca, Spain.
Jens
