Timothy J. Lee

In article ,
Gazz wrote:
    >"Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> [email protected] wrote:
    >> >
    >> > Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain
    >> Can someone explain to me why you're supposed to use your hand brake
    >> instead of your foot brake when stopping at a red light?
    >Main reason, you pull up behind someone at the traffic lights, just sit
    >there with the car in gear, (your foot on the clutch), and the other foot on
    >the brake... someone comes up behind you and doesn't stop in time, arse ends
    >you, the jolt knocks your foot firstly off the brake..

Be aware that if you visit the US, you may find vehicles with daytime
running lights that turn off the daytime running lights if the hand
brake is used. So an unintended side effect of using the hand brake
in the manner described above is to cause the daytime running lights
to blink off and on.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Timothy J. Lee

In article ,
Barry Twycross wrote:
    >You use the foot brake when stopping, when stopped, you use the
    >handbrake.
    >I still have the habit from over 20 years ago, whenever I come to stop
    >I pull on the handbrake. Now I'm in the US, my US friends comment on it
    >when I drive.

A lot of people in the US don't even use the parking brake when parking
(even though driving schools say to use it).

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Greg Byshenk

grey wrote:
    > [email protected] (Jesper Lauridsen) wrote:
    > >On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:01:52 -0500, grey wrote:

    > >>About the "standards"--what about all the illegit drivers on the roads
    > >>in Britain now because they can't pass a test that may be too tough?

    > >Would they be less of a hazard if the standard of the test had been
    > >lowered to their level?

    > Got to be a mid-point that maximizes safety.

Why do you say this? It seems just wrong to me.

After all, those who are driving unlicensed at present have all
demonstrated that they are willing to drive without passing the
test. If the test should be made easier to pass, then some of
those who currently fail will pass it -- but there is no reason
whatsoever to believe that they will be more capable drivers.
And those who still fail have already demonstrated that they will
drive without a license, so nothing changes there, either.

Which means that, should the test be made easier, the _only_
difference will be that some people who are not willing to drive
without a license and who cannot pass the current test _will_ pass
the easier test and will drive.

Which means, in short, that a) the number of current drivers who
are non-capable will not change; while b) a group of less capable
drivers will be added to the pool. How can this do anything other
than decrease safety?


--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?

Ricardo

On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 22:53:59 GMT, [email protected] (Timothy J.
Lee) wrote:

    >Be aware that if you visit the US, you may find vehicles with daytime
    >running lights that turn off the daytime running lights if the hand
    >brake is used. So an unintended side effect of using the hand brake
    >in the manner described above is to cause the daytime running lights
    >to blink off and on.

DRLs are also mandatory in Canada. Thankfully, my car doesn't have
'em, bless 'er.

--
ricardo, ex-euroslav
vancouver bc canada
e-mail: sovietjamaicanguy yahoo ca

Nathan Nagel

"Timothy J. Lee" wrote:
    >
    > In article ,
    > Barry Twycross wrote:
    > >You use the foot brake when stopping, when stopped, you use the
    > >handbrake.
    > >
    > >I still have the habit from over 20 years ago, whenever I come to stop
    > >I pull on the handbrake. Now I'm in the US, my US friends comment on it
    > >when I drive.
    >
    > A lot of people in the US don't even use the parking brake when parking
    > (even though driving schools say to use it).

Heh, not if you grew up in western PA, there you set the handbrake *and*
leave the car in gear! (or else...)

nate

Ricardo

On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:12:05 -0000, "CliveM"
wrote:

    >Block shifting; smoother, less strain on transmission and passengers, and
    >it's better to brake with 4 wheels rather than 2. In this day and age, with
    >excellent brakes and cars having upto 6 gears,

I doubt that in most cars, one would ever use gears 5 and 6 on most
city streets anyway. I have never driven a 6sp myself, only 5sp's,
but I knew a guy (back in the EUSSR) with a nice shiny Passat w/ 6sp
tranny, and he didn't, as I recall, even get into 5th until we
joined the freeway. Now that car cruised beautifully at 140 in 6th
(until we were cut off by a slowpoke and nearly died - yes this
happens a lot in Europe too; it's not just American dipshit drivers
who cut people off).

    >it is just considered a
    >wasteful process.

I tend to think it is, in most cases, but that is the method that I
was *originally* taught by a EUropean instructor (downshift
sequentially when slowing to a stop).

--
ricardo, ex-euroslav
vancouver bc canada
e-mail: sovietjamaicanguy yahoo ca

Frank Matthews

Actually, the first thing that you learn to do is to turn the wheels so
that a car rolling downhill will be forced into the kerb.

Frank Matthews

Nathan Nagel wrote:
    > "Timothy J. Lee" wrote:

    >>In article ,
    >>Barry Twycross wrote:

    >>>You use the foot brake when stopping, when stopped, you use the
    >>>handbrake.

    >>>I still have the habit from over 20 years ago, whenever I come to stop
    >>>I pull on the handbrake. Now I'm in the US, my US friends comment on it
    >>>when I drive.

    >>A lot of people in the US don't even use the parking brake when parking
    >>(even though driving schools say to use it).

    > Heh, not if you grew up in western PA, there you set the handbrake *and*
    > leave the car in gear! (or else...)

    > nate

Frank Matthews

Ricardo wrote:
    > On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:12:05 -0000, "CliveM"
    > wrote:

    >>Block shifting; smoother, less strain on transmission and passengers, and
    >>it's better to brake with 4 wheels rather than 2. In this day and age, with
    >>excellent brakes and cars having upto 6 gears,

    > I doubt that in most cars, one would ever use gears 5 and 6 on most
    > city streets anyway. I have never driven a 6sp myself, only 5sp's,
    > but I knew a guy (back in the EUSSR) with a nice shiny Passat w/ 6sp
    > tranny, and he didn't, as I recall, even get into 5th until we
    > joined the freeway. Now that car cruised beautifully at 140 in 6th
    > (until we were cut off by a slowpoke and nearly died - yes this
    > happens a lot in Europe too; it's not just American dipshit drivers
    > who cut people off).

The cutting off you refer to is caused by folks staying in the slow lane
until they are right on the tail of a car they want to pass. They then
have to move over to pass with very little time to change. If they
moved over earlier than you would have an easier time to see them and
slow down. Then again you'd probably grouse about their not moving over.

Frank Matthews

    >>it is just considered a
    >>wasteful process.
    >
    >
    > I tend to think it is, in most cases, but that is the method that I
    > was *originally* taught by a EUropean instructor (downshift
    > sequentially when slowing to a stop).
    >

Marc

Frank Matthews wrote:
    >Bob Builder wrote:
    >> "Frank Matthews" wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >>>>Those are very basic vehicle handling skills.
    >>>Yes, it's amazing how often I've found it necessary to back around a
    >>>corner. Wait a minute. Surely it's happened at least once in the last
    >>>40 years. Well I guess not. But it's still a really basic skill.
    >>>Perhaps everyone should have to do it while towing a trailer.
    >> Strange.
    >> I reverse my car every day.
    >> Normally getting in and out of parking spots.
    >The skill was backing the car around a corner. That's quite different
    >from backing out of a parking space.

Backing and turning, vs backing and turning.

Marc
For email, remove the first "y" of "whineryy"

Barry Twycross

In article , Timothy J. Lee
wrote:

    > Be aware that if you visit the US, you may find vehicles with daytime
    > running lights that turn off the daytime running lights if the hand
    > brake is used. So an unintended side effect of using the hand brake
    > in the manner described above is to cause the daytime running lights
    > to blink off and on.

I hate that. I'm never going to buy a vehicle with such a stupid
design. Sometimes it turns up in a rental, it took a little puzzling to
work out why the lights went on and off so randomly.

--
Barry
[email protected]
------
(I should put something down here).

Geraint

sgwennodd "R J Carpenter" yn neges
news:[email protected]...

    > My state now has driving-test courses and doesn't use the public roads for
    > the tests.
Says it all really. Are they so worried about the quality of the candidates
that they won't even test them on the public roads?!

hwyl!
geraint.

Clivem

I tend to think it is, in most cases, but that is the method that I
    > was *originally* taught by a EUropean instructor (downshift
    > sequentially when slowing to a stop).

This method has not been advocated in the UK for 20 years. I cannot comment
about other EU states.
When the Heavy Goods Vehicle test (now the LGV test) was introduced, it was
soon realised that sequential downshifting would be a nonsense at every
hazard. As a result, the LGV test includes a 'gearchange' exercise where the
candidate must show their ability to sequentially change down through the
gear box. This is to prove the ability to engage lower gears and
particularly crawler gear, for the benefit of hill descents. In addition a
'Downhill start' was introduced where the driver would set off from a
standstill after holding the vehicle on footbrake only. A higher gear is
engaged, the footbrake released and the clutch engaged when the vehicle has
reached a suitable speed (about 5mph).
CM
"Ricardo" wrote in message
news:3dc1f6a2.15372226@news...
    > On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:12:05 -0000, "CliveM"
    > wrote:
    > >Block shifting; smoother, less strain on transmission and passengers, and
    > >it's better to brake with 4 wheels rather than 2. In this day and age,
with
    > >excellent brakes and cars having upto 6 gears,
    > I doubt that in most cars, one would ever use gears 5 and 6 on most
    > city streets anyway. I have never driven a 6sp myself, only 5sp's,
    > but I knew a guy (back in the EUSSR) with a nice shiny Passat w/ 6sp
    > tranny, and he didn't, as I recall, even get into 5th until we
    > joined the freeway. Now that car cruised beautifully at 140 in 6th
    > (until we were cut off by a slowpoke and nearly died - yes this
    > happens a lot in Europe too; it's not just American dipshit drivers
    > who cut people off).
    > >it is just considered a
    > >wasteful process.
    > I tend to think it is, in most cases, but that is the method that I
    > was *originally* taught by a EUropean instructor (downshift
    > sequentially when slowing to a stop).
    > --
    > ricardo, ex-euroslav
    > vancouver bc canada
    > e-mail: sovietjamaicanguy yahoo ca

Roy

In message , Brandon
Sommerville writes

    >What you're missing is that almost all of us (if not all!) would
    >happily take any and all additional tests required to prove that
    >competence, and would strive very hard to correct any problems that
    >were uncovered by those tests.

Absolute rubbish based on a personal opinion that is totally divorced
from the facts. Pontificating on behalf of an un-named and un-registered
majority of UK drivers is foolish in the extreme.

Up to and until the government do something sensible to curb the huge
numbers of unlicensed drivers, often driving untaxed and certainly
uninsured vehicles, there is little point in most of us applauding more
draconian stupidity perpetrated by ill advised and uninformed idiots.

In a country where public transport systems are a joke in extremely bad
taste and where the generally law abiding motorist is regularly treated
as a bottomless money box used to fund ever more government
incompetence, this would be yet another example of creating criminals by
default.

Only yesterday figures were published concerning the number of
un-licensed vehicles within the Peterborough [City] area. The published
figure is in excess of 7000. I would just love to see how many of these
owners would like to see an increase in any costs associated with
motoring. In fact were a UK wide poll to be held to decide whether to
keep the driving test or to issue driving licenses for free to those
over 17 years old, no doubt the majority view would prove quite
interesting.

In a country where public transport systems are a joke in extremely bad
taste and where the generally law abiding motorist is regularly treated
as a bottomless money box used to fund ever more government
incompetence, this would be yet another example of creating criminals by
default.

Any attempt to deliberately increase the numbers of uninsured drivers on
UK roads should be firmly resisted. I would personally consider any
increase in the complexity or difficulty of the driving test to be
detrimental to the overall driving standards on UK roads as it will
almost certainly result in ever more unlicensed and therefore uninsured
drivers on our road network.

I assume that most readers are aware that a large number of disqualified
drivers re-offend by driving while disqualified at least three times
before any meaningful penalty is employed to curb the habit.

--
Roy

--
Roy

Smiler

wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Frank Matthews" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >
    > > nightjar wrote:
    > ....
    > > > Those are very basic vehicle handling skills.
    > >
    > > Yes, it's amazing how often I've found it necessary to back around a
    > > corner. Wait a minute. Surely it's happened at least once in the last
    > > 40 years. Well I guess not. But it's still a really basic skill.
    > > Perhaps everyone should have to do it while towing a trailer.
    > I use it for the reason it was taught to me - to turn around using a side
    > road - drive past a minor road on the left, stop by the kerb, reverse back
    > into the side road, then make a right turn into the major road. I use it
    > about every 2-3 weeks, when I visit friends who live in a road where the
    > easiest way to leave is back along the road I came in on.
    > Colin Bignell
    > I expect you do as I do, stop in the correct position as to make a right
turn.

Why on a test are you required to reverse along the kerb until told to stop?

Smiler

Ricardo

On Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:30:52 -0000, "CliveM"
wrote:

    >In addition a
    >'Downhill start' was introduced where the driver would set off from a
    >standstill after holding the vehicle on footbrake only. A higher gear is
    >engaged, the footbrake released and the clutch engaged when the vehicle has
    >reached a suitable speed (about 5mph).

I sometimes use this technique (2nd gear starts) when moving off
down a steep descent. It works beautifully, even with a stalled car!

--
ricardo, ex-euroslav
vancouver bc canada
e-mail: sovietjamaicanguy yahoo ca