Not true. My partner is French but has a distinctly American English accent. Now after spending time in the UK he has pronouces certain words with a British accent. I've also worked with a French woman who's been in the USA and UK for more than 8 years. Her accent is so strong that most people find it difficult to understand her. The problem is that she doesn't try to pronouce words correctly. A bit like English people speaking French without trying to simulate the accent. Works both ways!

On Tue, 24 May 2005 20:01:21 +0200, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >kyrha writes:
    >> I'm french and I'd like to know your opinion about french accent
    >A slight French accent in English can be charming. A thick accent,
    >particularly one that interferes with comprehension, can be annoying.
    >So can idiosyncratic errors in pronunciation, grammar, or vocabulary.
    >Different French speakers manifest their French accents in slightly
    >different ways. Some types are more aesthetic than others.

The same applies to all speakers of all languages.

I noticed that in Florida, but not California, local people have far
more difficulty understanding French speakers of English than Brit.s
do.

I was once involved in translating from French English to English for
the benefit of a traffic cop, who had just had his windscreen struck
by a McD that a disgusted Frenchman had thrown out of a car window.

"Jordi" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Deep Foiled Malls ha escrito:
    >> On 24 May 2005 07:55:21 -0700, "kyrha" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >Hi everybody
    >> >I'm french and I'd like to know your opinion about french accent
    >> >Thank you for your answers
    >> It is a permanent fixture that you can do nothing about. There is not
    >> a frog on earth that has successfully removed their distinct accent.
    >That is something both French & English people share. When speaking
    >Spanish, at least.
It works the other way, too. I find French spoken in a Spanish accent
generally quite comprehensible, but strange to my ear.

Most people master the phonemes of their mother tongue, but do less
well with the phonemes of languages acquired later than early
childhood. I don't think we should see it is a problem (although some
language teachers do) but as part of life's diversity.

--
PB
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 01:57:54 +0200, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >Deep Foiled Malls writes:
    >> It is a permanent fixture that you can do nothing about. There is not
    >> a frog on earth that has successfully removed their distinct accent.
    >I work with several who have.

I've worked with many educated French. I can't think of a single one
where it wasn't obvious that person was French as soon as the person
started to speak. I can think of several Dutch, who sound and speak
like native English speakers

Padraig Breathnach ha escrito:
    > "Jordi" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > >
    > >
    > >That is something both French & English people share. When speaking
    > >Spanish, at least.
    > >
    > It works the other way, too. I find French spoken in a Spanish accent
    > generally quite comprehensible, but strange to my ear.
    > Most people master the phonemes of their mother tongue, but do less
    > well with the phonemes of languages acquired later than early
    > childhood. I don't think we should see it is a problem (although some
    > language teachers do) but as part of life's diversity.

Many people consider speaking without an accent to be the definitive
command of a language... the problem is everyone has an accent of some
kind :)

J.

On Wed, 25 May 2005 09:31:59 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :


... Most people master the phonemes of their mother tongue, but do less
... well with the phonemes of languages acquired later than early
... childhood. I don't think we should see it is a problem (although some
... language teachers do) but as part of life's diversity.

Just give them time.
The French have long ago forgotten that I'm a foreigner - even my friends did.

nitram writes:

    > I've worked with many educated French. I can't think of a single one
    > where it wasn't obvious that person was French as soon as the person
    > started to speak.

As I've said, I work with several such people every day. I had to ask
them what their native language was, since I couldn't hear any accent.

    > I can think of several Dutch, who sound and speak
    > like native English speakers

That's good, since Dutch itself is very unpleasant to the ear, IMO.

--
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Padraig Breathnach writes:

    > Most people master the phonemes of their mother tongue, but do less
    > well with the phonemes of languages acquired later than early
    > childhood.

Nothing changes at any point in childhood that impairs acquisition of
native fluency later in life.

--
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Citizen Ted writes:

    > Women with French accents sound terrific and sexy. Men with French
    > accents sound like putzes.

That's because that's how both groups really are.

--
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Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Padraig Breathnach writes:
    >> Most people master the phonemes of their mother tongue, but do less
    >> well with the phonemes of languages acquired later than early
    >> childhood.
    >Nothing changes at any point in childhood that impairs acquisition of
    >native fluency later in life.

Not true. The brain changes. It's called development.

--
PB
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Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Citizen Ted writes:
    >> Women with French accents sound terrific and sexy. Men with French
    >> accents sound like putzes.
    >That's because that's how both groups really are.

That's a male perspective.

--
PB
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 10:13:26 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
...
... >Padraig Breathnach writes:
... >
... >> Most people master the phonemes of their mother tongue, but do less
... >> well with the phonemes of languages acquired later than early
... >> childhood.
... >
... >Nothing changes at any point in childhood that impairs acquisition of
... >native fluency later in life.
...
... Not true. The brain changes. It's called development.

Obviously, some don't. ;)

On Wed, 25 May 2005 09:31:59 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Jordi" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Deep Foiled Malls ha escrito:
    >>> On 24 May 2005 07:55:21 -0700, "kyrha" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> >Hi everybody
    >>> >I'm french and I'd like to know your opinion about french accent
    >>> >Thank you for your answers
    >>> It is a permanent fixture that you can do nothing about. There is not
    >>> a frog on earth that has successfully removed their distinct accent.
    >>That is something both French & English people share. When speaking
    >>Spanish, at least.
    >It works the other way, too. I find French spoken in a Spanish accent
    >generally quite comprehensible, but strange to my ear.
    >Most people master the phonemes of their mother tongue, but do less
    >well with the phonemes of languages acquired later than early
    >childhood. I don't think we should see it is a problem (although some
    >language teachers do) but as part of life's diversity.

If anyone in the UK trains to teach English to foreign students, one
of the groundrules (so of course it's got its jargon) is what's called
"L1 interference", L1 being the student's native language.

If a student can be easily understood, even if he/she speaks with an
accent, then there is little cause for concern. If, however, they
can't be understood, remedial action needs to be taken.

Half the battle in English seems to be getting students to recognise
and reproduce stress and intonation patterns - unstessed syllables
becoming a short "u" sound. So "vegetable" becomes vej-tu-bl"


Keith, Bristol, UK

DE-MUNG for email replies

Keith wrote:

    > Half the battle in English seems to be getting students to recognise
    > and reproduce stress and intonation patterns - unstessed syllables
    > becoming a short "u" sound. So "vegetable" becomes vej-tu-bl"

Pesky forriners keep trying to pronounce different vowels sounds,
whereas English sounds more authentic if you replace them all by "uh".
And end every sentence with "actually".

    > A more common situation is that French people consider their language
    > part of their identity, and so they refuse to abandon their accent
    > ("linguistic ego"). Quite a few French speakers have this problem.

But either way, they could not make it sound better even if they wanted
to, a good English prononciation is hard to achieve for a Frenchman,
much harder that a perfect Spanish or German accent.