French accent
May 25th 2005, 2:29 am
#76
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French accent
On Wed, 25 May 2005 15:22:14 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Deep Foiled Malls" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
>message news:[email protected]...
>> On 25 May 2005 04:32:45 -0700, "george" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >We used to have a Scottish secretary, here accent was pure sex!
>> You must be having a different type of sex than me.
>Never heard of phone sex ?
Phone box sex, yes.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Deep Foiled Malls" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
>message news:[email protected]...
>> On 25 May 2005 04:32:45 -0700, "george" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >We used to have a Scottish secretary, here accent was pure sex!
>> You must be having a different type of sex than me.
>Never heard of phone sex ?
Phone box sex, yes.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
May 25th 2005, 2:29 am
#77
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French accent
Miss L Toe:
> Never heard of phone sex ?
Not with someone with a Scottish accent. Get Carter it ain't!!
> Never heard of phone sex ?
Not with someone with a Scottish accent. Get Carter it ain't!!
May 25th 2005, 2:35 am
#78
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French accent
Keith Anderson <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 May 2005 14:35:30 +0200, nitram <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 25 May 2005 13:15:22 +0100, Keith Anderson
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I think the "actually" is gradually being replaced by "innit".
> >
> >Well it is, innit?
>
> Well, like, er...yeah.
but no, but yeah, butnobutyeahbutnobut, yeahbutnobutImean SHADDUP Imean
nobutyeahbutno'cozIweren'teventhereatthetime!
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
> On Wed, 25 May 2005 14:35:30 +0200, nitram <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 25 May 2005 13:15:22 +0100, Keith Anderson
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I think the "actually" is gradually being replaced by "innit".
> >
> >Well it is, innit?
>
> Well, like, er...yeah.
but no, but yeah, butnobutyeahbutnobut, yeahbutnobutImean SHADDUP Imean
nobutyeahbutno'cozIweren'teventhereatthetime!
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
May 25th 2005, 2:58 am
#79
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French accent
Deep Foiled Malls writes:
> Can you prove it?
I don't have to. There is no reason to believe that the brain changes.
Therefore anyone asserting a change in the brain assumes the burden of
proof.
In the same way, it is not necessary to prove that angels are not
dancing on rooftops, because there is no reason to assume that they are
to begin with.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Can you prove it?
I don't have to. There is no reason to believe that the brain changes.
Therefore anyone asserting a change in the brain assumes the burden of
proof.
In the same way, it is not necessary to prove that angels are not
dancing on rooftops, because there is no reason to assume that they are
to begin with.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
May 25th 2005, 3:00 am
#80
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French accent
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Keith Anderson writes:
>
> > Half the battle in English seems to be getting students to recognise
> > and reproduce stress and intonation patterns - unstessed syllables
> > becoming a short "u" sound. So "vegetable" becomes vej-tu-bl"
>
> Stress is important, but intonation otherwise generally is not. A lot
> of ESL courses from the UK waste a tremendous amount of time on pitch
> intonation and such, requiring students to distinguish between "neutral"
> and "polite" intonations even when the examples given are valid only in
> certain parts of the UK and nowhere else in the world.
What on earth are you going on about?
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
> Keith Anderson writes:
>
> > Half the battle in English seems to be getting students to recognise
> > and reproduce stress and intonation patterns - unstessed syllables
> > becoming a short "u" sound. So "vegetable" becomes vej-tu-bl"
>
> Stress is important, but intonation otherwise generally is not. A lot
> of ESL courses from the UK waste a tremendous amount of time on pitch
> intonation and such, requiring students to distinguish between "neutral"
> and "polite" intonations even when the examples given are valid only in
> certain parts of the UK and nowhere else in the world.
What on earth are you going on about?
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
May 25th 2005, 3:00 am
#81
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French accent
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Deep Foiled Malls writes:
>
> > Can you prove it?
>
> I don't have to. There is no reason to believe that the brain changes.
Well, in one particular case, I admit I'm inclined to agree.
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
> Deep Foiled Malls writes:
>
> > Can you prove it?
>
> I don't have to. There is no reason to believe that the brain changes.
Well, in one particular case, I admit I'm inclined to agree.
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
May 25th 2005, 3:01 am
#82
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French accent
Keith Anderson writes:
> Which courses are they?
ESL
> Can you give some examples of the parts of the UK where these specific
> intonation patterns are valid?
I don't know. I don't know of any place where they are valid, but I
presume that someplace in the UK must exist where they are, otherwise
why include them in the course?
It's rather bizarre, because it sometimes requires that I teach students
imaginary differences that don't exist outside of whatever alternate
universe was used as a model for the course. The students hear no
significant difference, and neither do I, so we just go by the book,
then discard the lesson and move on.
The British, it seems, in their socially stratified society, have a
preoccupation with intonation in speech and regional accents to mark
social station and social situation. Unfortunately, other societies,
such as the US, do not suffer from this problem, and even societies that
do make such distinctions, they are not make in the same was as they are
in the UK. So teaching the British form of the distinctions is a waste
of time at best, and a step backwards at worst.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Which courses are they?
ESL
> Can you give some examples of the parts of the UK where these specific
> intonation patterns are valid?
I don't know. I don't know of any place where they are valid, but I
presume that someplace in the UK must exist where they are, otherwise
why include them in the course?
It's rather bizarre, because it sometimes requires that I teach students
imaginary differences that don't exist outside of whatever alternate
universe was used as a model for the course. The students hear no
significant difference, and neither do I, so we just go by the book,
then discard the lesson and move on.
The British, it seems, in their socially stratified society, have a
preoccupation with intonation in speech and regional accents to mark
social station and social situation. Unfortunately, other societies,
such as the US, do not suffer from this problem, and even societies that
do make such distinctions, they are not make in the same was as they are
in the UK. So teaching the British form of the distinctions is a waste
of time at best, and a step backwards at worst.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
May 25th 2005, 3:09 am
#83
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French accent
chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco
writes:
> What on earth are you going on about?
That was exactly my thought when I first encountered these exercises.
"Polite" intonation? "Neutral" intonation? Sorry, but those
distinctions aren't made by the overwhelming majority of English
speakers, and they have no place in ESL courses, no matter how common
they might be in the 5-km radius around Oxford or Cambridge or
Buckingham Palace.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
writes:
> What on earth are you going on about?
That was exactly my thought when I first encountered these exercises.
"Polite" intonation? "Neutral" intonation? Sorry, but those
distinctions aren't made by the overwhelming majority of English
speakers, and they have no place in ESL courses, no matter how common
they might be in the 5-km radius around Oxford or Cambridge or
Buckingham Palace.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
May 25th 2005, 3:10 am
#84
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French accent
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Keith Anderson writes:
>
> > Which courses are they?
>
> ESL
Where? Give a specific example, please.
>
> > Can you give some examples of the parts of the UK where these specific
> > intonation patterns are valid?
>
> I don't know.
Well, that's an important first step.
> I don't know of any place where they are valid,
One doesn't come to mind to me immediately either.
> but I
> presume that someplace in the UK must exist where they are, otherwise
> why include them in the course?
What course are they included in- who teaches it- and where?
> It's rather bizarre, because it sometimes requires that I teach students
> imaginary differences
Such as?
Give an example please.
> that don't exist outside of whatever alternate
> universe was used as a model for the course. The students hear no
> significant difference, and neither do I, so we just go by the book,
> then discard the lesson and move on.
Which book are you referring to, and more importantly perhaps, when was
it published?
> The British, it seems, in their socially stratified society, have a
> preoccupation with intonation in speech and regional accents to mark
> social station and social situation.
Not any more. If anything, regional accents are becoming more popular,
though you're not going to find someone with a strong scouse accent
reading the national news. There are practical reasons for that, and
you'll find the same thing in other societies.
> So teaching the British form of the distinctions is a waste
> of time at best, and a step backwards at worst.
Do enlighten the British readers as to what they are. I for one am
fascinated.
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
> Keith Anderson writes:
>
> > Which courses are they?
>
> ESL
Where? Give a specific example, please.
>
> > Can you give some examples of the parts of the UK where these specific
> > intonation patterns are valid?
>
> I don't know.
Well, that's an important first step.
> I don't know of any place where they are valid,
One doesn't come to mind to me immediately either.
> but I
> presume that someplace in the UK must exist where they are, otherwise
> why include them in the course?
What course are they included in- who teaches it- and where?
> It's rather bizarre, because it sometimes requires that I teach students
> imaginary differences
Such as?
Give an example please.
> that don't exist outside of whatever alternate
> universe was used as a model for the course. The students hear no
> significant difference, and neither do I, so we just go by the book,
> then discard the lesson and move on.
Which book are you referring to, and more importantly perhaps, when was
it published?
> The British, it seems, in their socially stratified society, have a
> preoccupation with intonation in speech and regional accents to mark
> social station and social situation.
Not any more. If anything, regional accents are becoming more popular,
though you're not going to find someone with a strong scouse accent
reading the national news. There are practical reasons for that, and
you'll find the same thing in other societies.
> So teaching the British form of the distinctions is a waste
> of time at best, and a step backwards at worst.
Do enlighten the British readers as to what they are. I for one am
fascinated.
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
May 25th 2005, 3:10 am
#85
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French accent
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco
> writes:
>
> > What on earth are you going on about?
>
> That was exactly my thought when I first encountered these exercises.
> "Polite" intonation? "Neutral" intonation? Sorry, but those
> distinctions aren't made by the overwhelming majority of English
> speakers, and they have no place in ESL courses, no matter how common
> they might be in the 5-km radius around Oxford or Cambridge or
> Buckingham Palace.
Have you been to Oxford, Cambridge, or around Buckingham Palace?
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
> chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco
> writes:
>
> > What on earth are you going on about?
>
> That was exactly my thought when I first encountered these exercises.
> "Polite" intonation? "Neutral" intonation? Sorry, but those
> distinctions aren't made by the overwhelming majority of English
> speakers, and they have no place in ESL courses, no matter how common
> they might be in the 5-km radius around Oxford or Cambridge or
> Buckingham Palace.
Have you been to Oxford, Cambridge, or around Buckingham Palace?
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
May 25th 2005, 3:50 am
#86
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French accent
On Wed, 25 May 2005 15:22:14 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Deep Foiled Malls" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
>message news:[email protected]...
>> On 25 May 2005 04:32:45 -0700, "george" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >We used to have a Scottish secretary, here accent was pure sex!
>> You must be having a different type of sex than me.
>Never heard of phone sex ?
LOL I'll have fiver's worth please.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Deep Foiled Malls" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
>message news:[email protected]...
>> On 25 May 2005 04:32:45 -0700, "george" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >We used to have a Scottish secretary, here accent was pure sex!
>> You must be having a different type of sex than me.
>Never heard of phone sex ?
LOL I'll have fiver's worth please.
May 25th 2005, 3:53 am
#87
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French accent
"nitram" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 25 May 2005 15:22:14 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >"Deep Foiled Malls" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
> >message news:[email protected]...
> >> On 25 May 2005 04:32:45 -0700, "george" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >We used to have a Scottish secretary, here accent was pure sex!
> >>
> >> You must be having a different type of sex than me.
> >>
> >
> >Never heard of phone sex ?
> >
> LOL I'll have fiver's worth please.
Helllloooo maaarrtin
(I assume the cheque is now in the post)
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 25 May 2005 15:22:14 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >"Deep Foiled Malls" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
> >message news:[email protected]...
> >> On 25 May 2005 04:32:45 -0700, "george" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >We used to have a Scottish secretary, here accent was pure sex!
> >>
> >> You must be having a different type of sex than me.
> >>
> >
> >Never heard of phone sex ?
> >
> LOL I'll have fiver's worth please.
Helllloooo maaarrtin
(I assume the cheque is now in the post)
May 25th 2005, 3:58 am
#88
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French accent
On Wed, 25 May 2005 16:00:04 +0100, [email protected]
(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco)
wrote:
>Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Keith Anderson writes:
>>
>> > Half the battle in English seems to be getting students to recognise
>> > and reproduce stress and intonation patterns - unstessed syllables
>> > becoming a short "u" sound. So "vegetable" becomes vej-tu-bl"
>>
>> Stress is important, but intonation otherwise generally is not. A lot
>> of ESL courses from the UK waste a tremendous amount of time on pitch
>> intonation and such, requiring students to distinguish between "neutral"
>> and "polite" intonations even when the examples given are valid only in
>> certain parts of the UK and nowhere else in the world.
>What on earth are you going on about?
The heat has addled his brain.
(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco)
wrote:
>Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Keith Anderson writes:
>>
>> > Half the battle in English seems to be getting students to recognise
>> > and reproduce stress and intonation patterns - unstessed syllables
>> > becoming a short "u" sound. So "vegetable" becomes vej-tu-bl"
>>
>> Stress is important, but intonation otherwise generally is not. A lot
>> of ESL courses from the UK waste a tremendous amount of time on pitch
>> intonation and such, requiring students to distinguish between "neutral"
>> and "polite" intonations even when the examples given are valid only in
>> certain parts of the UK and nowhere else in the world.
>What on earth are you going on about?
The heat has addled his brain.
May 25th 2005, 4:06 am
#89
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French accent
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Not true. The brain changes. It's called development.
>
> The brain does not change. That's a persistent urban legend.
Of course it does. It does change (in mass, and size) with age as well
as with certain diseases.
--
inversez "kertanguy" et "de" pour me joindre
> > Not true. The brain changes. It's called development.
>
> The brain does not change. That's a persistent urban legend.
Of course it does. It does change (in mass, and size) with age as well
as with certain diseases.
--
inversez "kertanguy" et "de" pour me joindre
May 25th 2005, 4:14 am
#90
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French accent
Stanislas de Kertanguy writes:
> Of course it does. It does change (in mass, and size) with age as well
> as with certain diseases.
No cause and effect relationship has been shown between any normal
physiological change in the brain after birth and the aptitude for
learning languages. The notion that something magic happens to brain
structure that prevents people from achieving native fluency in new
languages after some particular age is pure conjecture, even though
linguists seem to accept it as gospel.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Of course it does. It does change (in mass, and size) with age as well
> as with certain diseases.
No cause and effect relationship has been shown between any normal
physiological change in the brain after birth and the aptitude for
learning languages. The notion that something magic happens to brain
structure that prevents people from achieving native fluency in new
languages after some particular age is pure conjecture, even though
linguists seem to accept it as gospel.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
