Especially when he answers your mostly out of topic posts
Why dont you create your own paste and copy group instead of polluting this
one?
Why dont you post on the north american group ?

"Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
BE86FC92.61101%[email protected]...
    > On 16/04/05 16:42, in article
    > [email protected],
    > "Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> jbk had a nice chat with Earl Evleth:
    >>> moron
    >>> idiot like you
    >>> he is a left wing nutbar
    >>> some dumbell like you
    >>> moron
    >>> you're too dumb to know ...
    >> I'm in need of some genuine pieces of U.S. text for education purposes.
    >> Would you allow me to use your contribution?
    > JBK is intellectually dishonest, which is why he uses insults in the place
    > of arguments. He can't stand up and argue like a "man".
    > Note, that I usually don't occupy myself with his postings because they
    > lack substance, but I do post if he is so very wrong so that others
    > do not remain uninformed.
    > Earl
    >

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:11:16 +0200, Donna Evleth <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >> From: [email protected]
    >> Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe
    >> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:32:02 -0400
    >> Subject: Re: The best places to get sick
    >>
    >> Because it has tons of illegal immigrants that Europe doesn't have.
    >> Because it has a much more diverse population that Europe has which
    >> unsurprisingly mimics the world at large which if you bothered tracing
    >> back you would find that the US on average provides much better care
    >> than they get where they came from. Because lots of these people
    >> refuse to get the care that is available to them. Among a myriad of
    >> other reasons moron.
    >Europe doesn't have tons of illegal immigrants????? You don't know anything
    >about France, do you?

Not compared to the US they don't.

    >Another question? Why are conservatives like yourself always so rude and
    >nasty?

A. I'm not a conservative just because I disagree with libellers and
slanderers like your husband

B. Just returning the favor lady.

Why do you call names like "nutcase" and "moron"?

Uhh, because they are? Consistently demonstrated by their mindless
ramblings, lies, etc. etc?

You conservatives
    >ought to be happy.

I'm not unhappy and, as I said, I'm not a conservative. Everybody
that disagrees with nutbar leftists are not conservatives lady.
That's why Bush got reelected. It wasn't a majority of conservatives.

You are in absolute control of the most powerful country
    >in the world.

You are just as wacky apparently as your husband. Since when are
conservatives or anybody else in absolute control of the US? You
leftos just have to believe that anyone who pulls apart your lies,
deceipt, etc. just have to be conservatives don't you? Such children.

Yet to hear the way you talk to those whom you don't agree
    >with (currently powerless) one would think that you are suffering from a
    >permanent, acute stomachache.

Hardly. I am in perfect health and just sold my house for a bundle.
Happy as can be! And funny how powerless the liberals are, blocking
Social Security reform as they are right now. Poor boys and girls.

I can't think of anything else that would
    >make you so disagreeable when you ought to be blissful.

Then read your husband's rantings and find out.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:15:32 +0200, Donna Evleth <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >> From: [email protected]
    >> Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe
    >> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:08:35 -0400
    >> Subject: Re: The best places to get sick
    >>
    >> you are nothing but a mindless cut and paste artist.
    >You are just plain mindless.
    >*PLONK*
    >Donna Evleth

Sure. That's why it was someone else who said it that I just
paraphrased. Guess ol' Earl will have to come out from behind your
skirts and defend himself now huh? Might as well, since you respond
just like he does.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:17:10 +0200, Donna Evleth <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >> From: [email protected]
    >> Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe
    >> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:14:10 -0400
    >> Subject: Re: The best places to get sick
    >>
    >> On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:39:59 +0200, The Rev Gaston <[email protected]>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 2005-04-16 17:32:02 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]> said:
    >>>
    >>>> On 16/04/05 16:42, in article [email protected],
    >>>> "Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> jbk had a nice chat with Earl Evleth:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> moron
    >>>>>> idiot like you he is a left wing nutbar
    >>>>>> some dumbell like you
    >>>>>> moron
    >>>>>> you're too dumb to know ...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I'm in need of some genuine pieces of U.S. text for education purposes.
    >>>>> Would you allow me to use your contribution?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> JBK is intellectually dishonest, which is why he uses insults in the place
    >>>> of arguments. He can't stand up and argue like a "man".
    >>>
    >>> That's why most of us have kill-filed him.
    >>>
    >>> G;
    >>
    > Snip

Hey, the more they disappear the happier I am!!

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:34:25 +0200, Erick T. Barkhuis
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >jbk [on Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:21:41 -0400] wrote:
    >> I don't know how long you have been looking at this group,
    >Not for too long, I must confess. I've been lurking a bit, and posting
    >just a couple of short messages.
    >When I put this group into my Gravity list of newsgroups, I expected to
    >see contributions about travelling in Europe. It's one of my website's
    >topics, so I thought I would read more about it here. I hoped to get
    >inspired, informed and educated by people who have seen much more than I
    >have.

There are, in fact, lots of those as well and that was the reason I
came, and still come, myself. Problem is, these types are spewing
their filth all around as well and need to be countered. As I have
pointed out several times, I have not once started one of these
threads, I simply responded to them. So don't look at me.

    >Instead, I found hundreds of contributions about:
    >> several of these people are beyond contempt. Both Magda and Evelyn at
    >> various times, for example, have outright wished physical harm to
    >> Bush. Does that meet your test of acceptable discourse? Not mine.
    >Not mine, either. Regardless of whether I like Mr. Bush's policy or not.
    >But if everyone would try and stay more-or-less on-topic in this
    >newsgroup, wouldn't such discourse disappears all by itself?

While I didn't vote for Bush either, the answer to your question is
no. I do this quite often as I travel a lot and can't access the
newsgroup while travelling. Every time I come back it is the same
coterie of idiots carrying on just like you have observed with their
crap again, so I join the fray to counteract them. It does not, in
fact, disappear it continues virtually without interruption.

    >> And I would do the same blasting of the nutbars on the right, but they
    >> rarely show up here.
    >Blasting of nutbars has nothing to do with talking about travelling in
    >Europe, I believe.

Quite true, but as I said, I didn't start this politico crap they did
and they continue to use it as a forum for their wacko views so I
counter. At least that way, those who read them will at least see the
other side, which this crowd will never present.

    >Would you like to engage in an experiment? Let's just see what happens if
    >you refrained from calling anybody a 'moron' for a week. The tone of the
    >conversation in this group might drastically change in a direction you
    >claim to desire!

Give me another week or so when I am off again on another trip and you
will get your wish. Then we shall see what happens. The posts all
accumulate while I am gone so I will check when I get back and we'll
see what happens.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:23:12 +0200, Donna Evleth <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >> From: [email protected]
    >> Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe
    >> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:17:18 -0400
    >> Subject: Re: The best places to get sick
    >>
    >> Right. Bothers me no end you fat ass 4F draft avoiding felon.
    >> HAHAHAHA!
    >The above is outright slander.

Oh no it's not.

    >For those who might not know what 4F means, it means that the person in
    >question was not drafted into the army because of a physical disability. It
    >does not mean draft avoidance, and it certainly does not make one a felon.

Or a mental one. And it means just that. He avoided the draft
through the 4F deferment. And if he did some alternative service
instead, please post that for us. Perfectly possible for anyone that
really wanted to serve. There are Iraqi veterans right now that have
lost limbs and are still serving. And that's in the Army lady.

And I didn't say that this made him a felon. What makes him a felon
is his violation in going to Cuba as an American citizen, which he
outright admitted.

    >I am in the process of plonking you, but I could not let this one go by.

Feel free. The facts speak for themselves don't they?

    >You, sir, are the best example of an anti-American that I have ever seen.
    >Americans are a warm, generous, friendly people, with kind hearts. None of
    >this even remotely describes you. You are hateful and nasty. All the
    >things that real Americans are not.

Oh real Americans like you for example. Any your nutbar husbands?
Just who are you to tell who is and who isn't a real American? I
served my country for 3 years in the Army lady, with a tour in Vietnam
with a combat unit. As opposed to your "real American" 4F felon
husband. Arrogant ass number two in this family.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:39:21 +0200, [email protected] (Luca Logi) wrote:

    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Uhh, because they are doing the same thing as the US drug companies
    >> and shifting the costs to the US? While subsidizing theirs?
    >it looks that in your opinion US people are really dense :-)

Hardly. You would be very hard put to find any American that isn't
aware of this situation and quite pissed about our subsidizing the
rest of the world's drug bill--all while they are claiming to have
more efficient healthcare systems than ours. More like the government
being bought off by the drug companies, with European ones going right
along for the ride doing the exact same thing. How about getting all
the developed countries together to bid together on drugs? Then our
costs would go down by 50% and yours would go up by 50% like they
should to pay for the R and D. Interested? I thought not.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:28:44 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >The waiting list exaggeration, stupid. Don't dodge, come up with "a list".
    >Belgium, Switzerland, Austria who?

The Netherlands I waited 14 months for a cataract operation.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:19:27 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On 16/04/05 17:35, in article [email protected],
    >"Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Earl Evleth [on Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:28:44 +0200] wrote:
    >>
    >>> so give us a list of European countries which do have a waiting list
    >>> and how long the wait is for each time of medical treatment.
    >>
    >> That doesn't appear to be a fair request, because waiting lists are
    >> different between hospitals for various medical treatments.
    >> Here's a Dutch website showing waiting lists. Even if you don't
    >> understand Dutch, you'll see that there is no such thing as "average
    >> waiting list size".
    >>
    >> <http://www.rivm.nl/vtv/object_class/atl_wchtziekenhuiszorg.html>
    >I looked it over but could not understand the map.

The current waiting time for an eye operation is 26 weeks in Leiden.
For a cataract operation 8 weeks.
It says that the average maximum is 73 weeks which can't be right.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:46:07 +0200, nitram <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:28:44 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
    >wrote:
    >>The waiting list exaggeration, stupid. Don't dodge, come up with "a list".
    >>Belgium, Switzerland, Austria who?
    >The Netherlands I waited 14 months for a cataract operation.

There's one for you Evleth

In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:46:07 +0200, nitram <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:28:44 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
    > >wrote:
    > >
    > >>The waiting list exaggeration, stupid. Don't dodge, come up with "a list".
    > >>Belgium, Switzerland, Austria who?
    > >
    > >The Netherlands I waited 14 months for a cataract operation.
    >
    > There's one for you Evleth

Not to worry, The Netherlands will be adopting the "Logan's Run" policy
soon enough....

jay
Sat Apr 16, 2005
mailto:[email protected]

On 16/04/05 19:28, in article [email protected],
"Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> The critical question to you then is whether delays are a big issue?
    >
    > Since we're talking about delays in _medical_ service, I would generally
    > say 'yes'. Even in cases where the illness is not life threatening, a
    > delay at least causes:
    > - emotional damage to the patient
    > - additional costs for compensating drugs
    > - additional costs because the patient can't fullfill his (job?
    > voluntary?) obligations
    >
    > ...just to name a few things that come to mind.
    >
    > With due respect, I will agree that certain delays are 'no big deal'. But
    > in that case, I wouldn't describe the need for such treatment as "being
    > sick" (which is what this thread's subject line refers to).

Have you personally, or somebody you know, had problems obtaining medical
treatment because of a waiting list problem? I can`t really relate any
"ain't if awful stories" in France. I can with regard to the US. In
fact we have one friend whose ovarian cancer went undetected in the US
and was not found until she came here for a sabbatical year. She decided
to to the whole series of medical treatments and operations in France
because "they caught it". She was covered by a University HMO health plan
which used the hospital of their well known medical school, so they
should have covered it. The problem was that on each US visit she was
assigned another doctor and nobody individually followed up her particular
case. Here one links up with a doctor (one can change) and that doctor
knows your medical history. If you need a specialist you are sent to
one.

Earl

On 16/04/05 19:35, in article [email protected],
"Deep Foiled Malls" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

    >> Please, Earl, join us !
    >
    > YES, EARL!!!! PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAASSEEEE!!!!
    > --


My wife said the same thing last night. I will bend to popular demand.
But JBK is fun to toy with, but since he irritates others I will
let him twist slowly in the wind. Au gibet.

Earl

On 16/04/05 20:14, in article [email protected],
"Magda" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > He is so stupid he is already dead.
    > Your job is done.

I have noticed for a while that his postings are short and
without content. I will pull back. If somebody posts
otherwise on one of his postings I might post. JBK degree
of disinformation has made him a no-nothing no-it-all.

Earl

Earl Evleth [on Sun, 17 Apr 2005 09:18:19 +0200] wrote:
    > On 16/04/05 19:28, in article [email protected],
    > "Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > With due respect, I will agree that certain delays are 'no big deal'. But
    > > in that case, I wouldn't describe the need for such treatment as "being
    > > sick" (which is what this thread's subject line refers to).
    >
    > Have you personally, or somebody you know, had problems obtaining medical
    > treatment because of a waiting list problem?

I remember that last year, a report was published showing an alarming
number of cases where patients would have survived if not for the waiting
lists. I can't find the report anymore, though. :-(
However, I found several articles indicating that the wating list problem
is quite severe in the Netherlands. And frankly, I didn't know that this
country was more of an exception in Europe than the general rule.

Many articles in Dutch, but I picked a couple in English to point to for
the benefit of r.t.e. denizens:
    > http://www.zn.nl/international/engli...troduction.asp
    > http://www.seo.nl/nl/publicaties/dis...s/2004/29.html
    > http://www.stockholmchallenge.se/pro...?ProjectId=323
    > http://www.minbuza.nl/default.asp?CM..._NOCOOKIES=YES



    > Here one links up with a doctor (one can change) and that doctor
    > knows your medical history. If you need a specialist you are sent to
    > one.

That's generally the same in Holland. Problems arise when you try to get
in contact with a specialist, and learn that it's your turn for a first
visit in "two weeks from now" and the actual treatment has a waiting list
of, say, 20-30 weeks.

Certainly, if you're in immediate life threatening danger, specialists
will try and help you right away. But due to the waiting lists, some
patients get to the specialist too late in order for them to be known in
time as 'an urgent case'.


--
Low Countries By Bike - http://lowcountriesbybike.info
Riding on two wheels in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany