On 2005-04-16 17:32:02 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]> said:

    > On 16/04/05 16:42, in article [email protected],
    > "Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> jbk had a nice chat with Earl Evleth:
    >>
    >>> moron
    >>> idiot like you he is a left wing nutbar
    >>> some dumbell like you
    >>> moron
    >>> you're too dumb to know ...
    >>
    >> I'm in need of some genuine pieces of U.S. text for education purposes.
    >> Would you allow me to use your contribution?
    >
    >
    > JBK is intellectually dishonest, which is why he uses insults in the place
    > of arguments. He can't stand up and argue like a "man".

That's why most of us have kill-filed him.

G;

--
Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:39:59 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, The Rev Gaston <[email protected]>
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... On 2005-04-16 17:32:02 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]> said:
...
... > On 16/04/05 16:42, in article [email protected],
... > "Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email protected]> wrote:
... >
... >>
... >> jbk had a nice chat with Earl Evleth:
... >>
... >>> moron
... >>> idiot like you he is a left wing nutbar
... >>> some dumbell like you
... >>> moron
... >>> you're too dumb to know ...
... >>
... >> I'm in need of some genuine pieces of U.S. text for education purposes.
... >> Would you allow me to use your contribution?
... >
... >
... > JBK is intellectually dishonest, which is why he uses insults in the place
... > of arguments. He can't stand up and argue like a "man".
...
... That's why most of us have kill-filed him.

Please, Earl, join us !

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:21:45 +0200, [email protected] (Luca Logi) wrote:

    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >> You
    >> and he conveniently fail to point out that the vast majority of drug
    >> and technological research and development is included in these costs
    >> that the others benefit from and don't have to pay for don't you?
    >How do the Swiss manage to have a lot of technological research at some
    >of the largest drug factories in the world, and at the same time a
    >(mainly private) health care system, much cheaper and efficient than the
    >US one?

Tu stai aspettando una risposta decenta da JBK?

Lui ho plonkato tanti anno fa.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

On 16/04/05 17:35, in article [email protected],
"Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Earl Evleth [on Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:28:44 +0200] wrote:
    >
    >> so give us a list of European countries which do have a waiting list
    >> and how long the wait is for each time of medical treatment.
    >
    > That doesn't appear to be a fair request, because waiting lists are
    > different between hospitals for various medical treatments.
    > Here's a Dutch website showing waiting lists. Even if you don't
    > understand Dutch, you'll see that there is no such thing as "average
    > waiting list size".
    >
    > <http://www.rivm.nl/vtv/object_class/atl_wchtziekenhuiszorg.html>

I looked it over but could not understand the map.

The problem with JBK is that he made a blanket claim and then
did not back it up with facts. What one wants to know is whether
waiting lists are medically important. There are optional procedures.
Is waiting for a breast implant a big deal?

Do delays effect the quality of delivery of medical services? We know in
the USA what the effect of rationing is, a lower longevity, higher infant
mortality rates, a balkanized system of care which is 50% more expensive
than anywhere else. And administrative costs so high as to make one
wonder.

The critical question to you then is whether delays are a big issue?

Earl

On 16/04/05 17:39, in article [email protected], "The Rev
Gaston" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> JBK is intellectually dishonest, which is why he uses insults in the place
    >> of arguments. He can't stand up and argue like a "man".
    >
    > That's why most of us have kill-filed him.

I do this after a point, but mainly to see him twist slowly in the wind.

He comes on this group when he is in the hyper mode of his bipolar
condition. This lasts for a week and he evaporates for a couple of weeks.
He has some sort of mental health problem and tries to share it with us.

Earl

On 16/04/05 18:09, in article [email protected],
"Magda" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > .. That's why most of us have kill-filed him.
    >
    > Please, Earl, join us !


I don't kill file him, I kill him intellectually.

Earl

Earl Evleth [on Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:19:27 +0200] wrote:

    > The critical question to you then is whether delays are a big issue?

Since we're talking about delays in _medical_ service, I would generally
say 'yes'. Even in cases where the illness is not life threatening, a
delay at least causes:
- emotional damage to the patient
- additional costs for compensating drugs
- additional costs because the patient can't fullfill his (job?
voluntary?) obligations

...just to name a few things that come to mind.

With due respect, I will agree that certain delays are 'no big deal'. But
in that case, I wouldn't describe the need for such treatment as "being
sick" (which is what this thread's subject line refers to).


--
Low Countries By Bike - http://lowcountriesbybike.info
Riding on two wheels in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 18:09:36 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:39:59 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, The Rev Gaston <[email protected]>
    >arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ... On 2005-04-16 17:32:02 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]> said:
    > ...
    > ... > On 16/04/05 16:42, in article [email protected],
    > ... > "Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > ... >
    > ... >>
    > ... >> jbk had a nice chat with Earl Evleth:
    > ... >>
    > ... >>> moron
    > ... >>> idiot like you he is a left wing nutbar
    > ... >>> some dumbell like you
    > ... >>> moron
    > ... >>> you're too dumb to know ...
    > ... >>
    > ... >> I'm in need of some genuine pieces of U.S. text for education purposes.
    > ... >> Would you allow me to use your contribution?
    > ... >
    > ... >
    > ... > JBK is intellectually dishonest, which is why he uses insults in the place
    > ... > of arguments. He can't stand up and argue like a "man".
    > ...
    > ... That's why most of us have kill-filed him.
    >Please, Earl, join us !

YES, EARL!!!! PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAASSEEEE!!!!
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:28:44 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On 16/04/05 16:32, in article [email protected],
    >"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:16:07 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >
    >>>
    >>> You made a blanket accusation and now are trying to weasel out!
    >>
    >> Of what ace? Show me any other countries in Europe that do not have
    >> waiting lists, just like I said.
    >You made the waiting list accusation, not really know, you produce
    >those which do.
    >Krugman said Germany and France, so give us a list of European countries
    >which do have a waiting list and how long the wait is for each time
    >of medical treatment.

Drop dead moron. Do your own research. You were the one who
plastered the Krugman article not me. As I said, if there were any he
would have listed them himself.

    >
    >>>
    >>> But let`s move on, now that your exaggeration has been exposed.
    >>
    >> What exaggeration moron?
    >The waiting list exaggeration, stupid. Don't dodge, come up with "a list".
    >Belgium, Switzerland, Austria who?

Do your own moron. It was you and Krugman making the statements not
me.

    >>>
    >>> The most interesting figure in his article was that the administrative
    >>> costs for health care in the US are around 30%. Wow, what inefficiency
    >>> to a know-it-all can-do society of hyper efficient workaholics.
    >>
    >> Only to some dumbell like you who likes false numbers to try to prove
    >> some dimwitted view of theirs.
    >No, the 25-30% figure has been around a long time. I attended a meeting of
    >medical professionals here in Paris in mid-1990s and a figure of 25% was
    >discussed then. If you do a LITTLE research you'll find numbers of this
    >order.
    >And it has been going on a LONG TIME

So what? Anyone who has taken a basic cost accounting (which you
obviously have not) knows there are all kinds of ways of putting out
numbers. Like the Swedes counting people on job training courses with
absolutely no jobs in sight as being employed to lower their
unemployment figures. Pure fiction of course. So you have no basis
at all for knowing whether these are accurate or the Europeans ones
are accurate. You just cut and paste, like someone else earlier said
as if that somehow makes them accurate.

    >FOR INSTANCE
    >New England Journal of Medicine 324:1253-1258 (May 2), 1991
    >"In 1987 health care administration cost between $96.8 billion and $120.4
    >billion in the United States, amounting in 19.3 to 24.1 percent of total
    >spending on health care, or $400 to $497 per capita. In Canada, between 8.4
    >and 11.1 percent of health care spending ($117 to $156 per capita) was
    >devoted to administration."
    >Into the 2000s the situation had not improved,

Means nothing as I said. As one example that ought to be simple
enough even for you to understand, the US does most of the drug
research and development in the world then the drug companies allow
the Canadians among others to pay far less for those than the US.
Guess what would happen if this wasn't the case? The US costs would
drop far faster and lower here than the Canadians wouldn't it?
Because the disproportionate costs would be eliminated that's why.
And, of course, the Canadians wouldn't get the drugs they need would
they? Just as the healthcare costs would shoot up if they had to
provide the services contracted with the US. At one point, the city
of Denver alone had more Cat Scan machines than existed in all of
Canada, which is part of the reason they have waiting lists there. All
this is beyond you, of course.

    >******
    >Administrative Costs in Market-Driven U.S. Health Care System Far Higher
    >Than in Canada¹s Single-Payer System, New Research Shows With National
    >Health Insurance, United States Could Cover the Uninsured
    >WASHINGTON, D.C. * Bureaucracy in the health care system accounts for about
    >a third of total U.S. health care spending * a sum so great that if the
    >United states were to have a national health insurance program, the
    >administrative savings alone would be enough to provide health care coverage
    >for all the uninsured in this country, according to two new studies.

Which they have absolutely no way of knowing of course, because of all
the distortions in these numbers and because they have no way of
knowing what a single payer system would cost here once the
politicians got done with it. Like doing brilliant things that the
Canadians don't do like preventing Medicare by law from negotiating
lower drugs prices.

    >****
    >From http://www.hms.harvard.edu/news/rele...oolhimmel.html
    >we find that in 1999 from a study (New England Journal of Medicine Study)
    >The authors found that bureaucracy accounted for at least 31% of total U.S.
    >health spending in 1999 vs. 16.7% in Canada. They also found that
    >administration has grown far faster in the U.S. than in Canada. Between 1969
    >and 1999, administrative and clerical personnel in the U.S. grew from 18.2%
    >to 27.3% of the health work force. In contrast, the administrative/clerical
    >share of Canada's health labor force rose modestly, from 16.0% in 1971 to
    >19.1% in 1996. These labor force figures exclude the 1.65 million employees
    >at U.S. insurance companies and agencies, as well as the small number of
    >private insurance employees in Canada.
    >
    >>> The next thing is the title of the commentary, "The best places to get
    >>> sick". Why does the US has a several years lower longevity, why is the
    >>> infant mortality rate 50% higher than in Europe.
    >>
    >> Because it has tons of illegal immigrants that Europe doesn't have.
    >That is why American black infants dies at a greater rate?? Look
    >at the numbers do-do.

Who said they didn't moron? This is exactly what I was saying. And
they die at a far greater rate in Africa then they do here which is
the relevant comparison isn't it airhead?

    >>> Gotcha.
    >Gotcha again :-)
    >Have you always been this ignorant??

Talk about the pot calling the kettle back with this leftist bullshit.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:32:02 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On 16/04/05 16:42, in article [email protected],
    >"Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> jbk had a nice chat with Earl Evleth:
    >>
    >>> moron
    >>> idiot like you
    >>> he is a left wing nutbar
    >>> some dumbell like you
    >>> moron
    >>> you're too dumb to know ...
    >>
    >> I'm in need of some genuine pieces of U.S. text for education purposes.
    >> Would you allow me to use your contribution?
    >JBK is intellectually dishonest, which is why he uses insults in the place
    >of arguments. He can't stand up and argue like a "man".

Listen you fat ass effete 4F snob. For someone who A. is an admitted
felon B. is an outright draft avoider C. who never did substitute
service while his fellow Americans were fighting and dying for this
moron's freedom to slander and libel them D. posts endless leftist
bullshit like Krugman's who is at least honest enough himself to
outright tell you he is a leftwing nutbar so you won't have any
problems putting his comments in context and E. is outright being a
parasite off his fellow Americans by sucking up Social Security while
you can be sure is also sucking up the French one, you have no room to
comment. If this is your definition of a man fat ass, you're right.
I'm not one. Please come to our veteran reunion in Virginia this
summer fat ass and make these comments face to face with the veterans
and we'll just see how much of a man you are won't we? Come on. I can
hardly wait.

    >Note, that I usually don't occupy myself with his postings because they
    >lack substance, but I do post if he is so very wrong so that others
    >do not remain uninformed.

No one is uniformed about your bullshit that's for sure. As one guy
already remarked, you are nothing but a mindless cut and paste artist.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:39:59 +0200, The Rev Gaston <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On 2005-04-16 17:32:02 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]> said:
    >> On 16/04/05 16:42, in article [email protected],
    >> "Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> jbk had a nice chat with Earl Evleth:
    >>>
    >>>> moron
    >>>> idiot like you he is a left wing nutbar
    >>>> some dumbell like you
    >>>> moron
    >>>> you're too dumb to know ...
    >>>
    >>> I'm in need of some genuine pieces of U.S. text for education purposes.
    >>> Would you allow me to use your contribution?
    >>
    >>
    >> JBK is intellectually dishonest, which is why he uses insults in the place
    >> of arguments. He can't stand up and argue like a "man".
    >That's why most of us have kill-filed him.
    >G;

Yeah, most of the coterie of idiots, who are obviously reading them
because they A. reply to them as if they are talking to each other and
B. directly address me after saying they wouldn't like Evleth.
HAHAHAHA! Idiots.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 18:09:36 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:39:59 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, The Rev Gaston <[email protected]>
    >arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ... On 2005-04-16 17:32:02 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]> said:
    > ...
    > ... > On 16/04/05 16:42, in article [email protected],
    > ... > "Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > ... >
    > ... >>
    > ... >> jbk had a nice chat with Earl Evleth:
    > ... >>
    > ... >>> moron
    > ... >>> idiot like you he is a left wing nutbar
    > ... >>> some dumbell like you
    > ... >>> moron
    > ... >>> you're too dumb to know ...
    > ... >>
    > ... >> I'm in need of some genuine pieces of U.S. text for education purposes.
    > ... >> Would you allow me to use your contribution?
    > ... >
    > ... >
    > ... > JBK is intellectually dishonest, which is why he uses insults in the place
    > ... > of arguments. He can't stand up and argue like a "man".
    > ...
    > ... That's why most of us have kill-filed him.
    >Please, Earl, join us !

See? Here comes another one. Maggot!

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:23:40 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... On 16/04/05 18:09, in article [email protected],
... "Magda" <[email protected]> wrote:
...
... > .. That's why most of us have kill-filed him.
... >
... > Please, Earl, join us !
...
...
... I don't kill file him, I kill him intellectually.

He is so stupid he is already dead.
Your job is done.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:23:40 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On 16/04/05 18:09, in article [email protected],
    >"Magda" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> .. That's why most of us have kill-filed him.
    >>
    >> Please, Earl, join us !
    >I don't kill file him, I kill him intellectually.
    >Earl

Yeah, always coming to a battle of wits completely unarmed. HAHAHAHA!

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:35:26 GMT, Deep Foiled Malls
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

    >On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 18:09:36 +0200, Magda <[email protected]>
    >wrote:
    >>On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:39:59 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, The Rev Gaston <[email protected]>
    >>arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    >> ... On 2005-04-16 17:32:02 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]> said:
    >> ...
    >> ... > On 16/04/05 16:42, in article [email protected],
    >> ... > "Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> ... >
    >> ... >>
    >> ... >> jbk had a nice chat with Earl Evleth:
    >> ... >>
    >> ... >>> moron
    >> ... >>> idiot like you he is a left wing nutbar
    >> ... >>> some dumbell like you
    >> ... >>> moron
    >> ... >>> you're too dumb to know ...
    >> ... >>
    >> ... >> I'm in need of some genuine pieces of U.S. text for education purposes.
    >> ... >> Would you allow me to use your contribution?
    >> ... >
    >> ... >
    >> ... > JBK is intellectually dishonest, which is why he uses insults in the place
    >> ... > of arguments. He can't stand up and argue like a "man".
    >> ...
    >> ... That's why most of us have kill-filed him.
    >>Please, Earl, join us !
    >YES, EARL!!!! PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAASSEEEE!!!!
    >--
    >---
    >DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
    >---

One more! HAHAHAHAHA!