B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
Jan 3rd 2003 | 3:38 pm
#16
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Posts: n/a
Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
Miguel Cruz wrote:
>
> Joan McGalliard wrote:
> > It seems possible here that the bad mannered ones here could be Colleen
> > and her boyfriend. Perhaps your friend was shocked that you so little
> > appreciated his efforts that you weren't even prepared to offer him the
> > nicer room.
>
> Anyone who presumes to decide what gift they deserve from someone else is
> being rude, in my opinion.
>
> Maybe they were planning to get him a bottle of wine. Maybe he didn't really
> do any work, or found the worst B&B available.
As a child I was taught that, if you do something nice for someone only
because you expect to get something in return, you're doing it for the
wrong reasons! (And perhaps deserve to be disappointed.) Besides, the
friend was staying there too - presumably he was choosing a B&B that
pleased him, as well, wasn't he? How much trouble was it to book two
rooms instead of one, when he'd already done his research to find the
place for himself?
>
> Joan McGalliard wrote:
> > It seems possible here that the bad mannered ones here could be Colleen
> > and her boyfriend. Perhaps your friend was shocked that you so little
> > appreciated his efforts that you weren't even prepared to offer him the
> > nicer room.
>
> Anyone who presumes to decide what gift they deserve from someone else is
> being rude, in my opinion.
>
> Maybe they were planning to get him a bottle of wine. Maybe he didn't really
> do any work, or found the worst B&B available.
As a child I was taught that, if you do something nice for someone only
because you expect to get something in return, you're doing it for the
wrong reasons! (And perhaps deserve to be disappointed.) Besides, the
friend was staying there too - presumably he was choosing a B&B that
pleased him, as well, wasn't he? How much trouble was it to book two
rooms instead of one, when he'd already done his research to find the
place for himself?
Jan 3rd 2003 | 3:42 pm
#17
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Posts: n/a
Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
Barbara Vaughan wrote:
>
>
> If I had organized a weekend getaway for four, I would have made sure
> that the other couple got the nicest room. I think most people would.
> Likewise, when I prepare a dinner for guests, I never take the nicest
> piece of the roast or the biggest piece of the cake.
That's how I was brought up, too! And anyway, if the people are good
friends, you WANT to treat them nicely (if only to let them see that
you appreciate their friendship).
>
>
> If I had organized a weekend getaway for four, I would have made sure
> that the other couple got the nicest room. I think most people would.
> Likewise, when I prepare a dinner for guests, I never take the nicest
> piece of the roast or the biggest piece of the cake.
That's how I was brought up, too! And anyway, if the people are good
friends, you WANT to treat them nicely (if only to let them see that
you appreciate their friendship).
Jan 3rd 2003 | 7:42 pm
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
Padraig Breathnach wrote:
>
> Barbara Vaughan wrote:
>
> >Likewise, when I prepare a dinner for guests, I never take the nicest
> >piece of the roast or the biggest piece of the cake.
> >
> The host always has the advantage of the opportunities in the kitchen.
> It would be excessive to take further advantage at the table.
Were you watching me prepare Christmas dinner?
Barbara
>
> Barbara Vaughan wrote:
>
> >Likewise, when I prepare a dinner for guests, I never take the nicest
> >piece of the roast or the biggest piece of the cake.
> >
> The host always has the advantage of the opportunities in the kitchen.
> It would be excessive to take further advantage at the table.
Were you watching me prepare Christmas dinner?
Barbara
Jan 4th 2003 | 2:27 am
#19
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Posts: n/a
Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
MeraMira wrote:
> My boyfriend and I live in Canada and we recently spent the weekend
> (in Quebec, Canada) with our new friends who moved here last year from
Basically, I agree with what most people are saying - if he's gonna get
all bitchy about something as trivial as a coin-toss for a room, then
he's not much of a friend.
Johnny
> My boyfriend and I live in Canada and we recently spent the weekend
> (in Quebec, Canada) with our new friends who moved here last year from
Basically, I agree with what most people are saying - if he's gonna get
all bitchy about something as trivial as a coin-toss for a room, then
he's not much of a friend.
Johnny
Jan 4th 2003 | 3:13 pm
#20
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Posts: n/a
Competition re B&B Etiquette question
Many replies refer to Ian as a boor, which seems well-merited and
accurate. I wonder, though, if we could generate a little lighthearted
relief from the back-to-work blues by inviting posters to suggest their
own most appropriate term to describe a person like him?
I'll offer "ill-mannered", "offensive" and "a selfish git"- terms can be
phrases or single words.
No prize for the best suggestion, but sender of the worst should be
required to spend a weekend with Ian.
More seriously, this behaviour has nothing whatever to do with
nationality (how sad to see one suggestion that simply because he's
called "Ian" he's probably Scottish and that his behaviour can be
explained by that ill-founded assumption). Ian is simply a boorish,
ill-mannered, offensive and selfish git, irrespective of his race or
nationality.
MeraMira wrote: (snipped)
> …we recently spent the weekend…with our new friends who moved here
> last year from the UK… They booked a lovely B&B and when
> we arrived there was a choice as to which couple would stay in which
> room. … I, in Canadian-style, suggested that we flip a coin. Our
> British friend,Ian, was apalled and insisted, as he had booked the
> rooms, that they would take their choice.
> -- Colleen
accurate. I wonder, though, if we could generate a little lighthearted
relief from the back-to-work blues by inviting posters to suggest their
own most appropriate term to describe a person like him?
I'll offer "ill-mannered", "offensive" and "a selfish git"- terms can be
phrases or single words.
No prize for the best suggestion, but sender of the worst should be
required to spend a weekend with Ian.
More seriously, this behaviour has nothing whatever to do with
nationality (how sad to see one suggestion that simply because he's
called "Ian" he's probably Scottish and that his behaviour can be
explained by that ill-founded assumption). Ian is simply a boorish,
ill-mannered, offensive and selfish git, irrespective of his race or
nationality.
MeraMira wrote: (snipped)
> …we recently spent the weekend…with our new friends who moved here
> last year from the UK… They booked a lovely B&B and when
> we arrived there was a choice as to which couple would stay in which
> room. … I, in Canadian-style, suggested that we flip a coin. Our
> British friend,Ian, was apalled and insisted, as he had booked the
> rooms, that they would take their choice.
> -- Colleen
Jan 4th 2003 | 9:59 pm
#21
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Posts: n/a
Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
Tom Odda - a made-up name if ever I've heard one - said
>valid. A number of British TV series I've seen recently (the 1900's
>house, 1940's house, the Iron Age one, and the one where they try to
>form a society on an isolated island for a year) were somewhat spoiled
>by all the complaining people did.
They were complaining in private though (well, I know it's on TV but
you know what I mean). In public I think the English do put up with
awful service and food that North Americans wouldn't tolderate.
--
Cliff Laine, Flat 798, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster
remove any trace of rudeness before you reply
__________________________________________________ _________
If anyone asked me 'Should auld acquaintance be forgot?' -
on the whole, I would say "yes".
Clement Freud
>valid. A number of British TV series I've seen recently (the 1900's
>house, 1940's house, the Iron Age one, and the one where they try to
>form a society on an isolated island for a year) were somewhat spoiled
>by all the complaining people did.
They were complaining in private though (well, I know it's on TV but
you know what I mean). In public I think the English do put up with
awful service and food that North Americans wouldn't tolderate.
--
Cliff Laine, Flat 798, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster
remove any trace of rudeness before you reply
__________________________________________________ _________
If anyone asked me 'Should auld acquaintance be forgot?' -
on the whole, I would say "yes".
Clement Freud
Jan 5th 2003 | 12:47 am
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
Tom Odda wrote:
> Wow. That certainly goes against the general perceived stereotype,
Pick your stereotype. Don't forget the "keep the home fires burning",
"stiff upper lip", "mustn't grumble", "be polite", "if you can't say
something nice, don't say anything" stereotype.
Or the one favoured by Australians: the English whine and winge, but
don't actually complain in a way that will solve the problem.
If Ian had accepted the coin toss, but spent the weekend complaining to
his girlfriend, and the next week complaining to everyone he knew, that
would have match your stereotype. But as he took immediate action to
try to rectify the problem with the appropriate person, I find it
untypical of English behaviour. Rude? Yes. English? No.
If he's scottish, I haven't lived amongst enough to form a personal
view.
joan
--
Joan McGalliard, UK http://www.mcgalliard.org
> Wow. That certainly goes against the general perceived stereotype,
Pick your stereotype. Don't forget the "keep the home fires burning",
"stiff upper lip", "mustn't grumble", "be polite", "if you can't say
something nice, don't say anything" stereotype.
Or the one favoured by Australians: the English whine and winge, but
don't actually complain in a way that will solve the problem.
If Ian had accepted the coin toss, but spent the weekend complaining to
his girlfriend, and the next week complaining to everyone he knew, that
would have match your stereotype. But as he took immediate action to
try to rectify the problem with the appropriate person, I find it
untypical of English behaviour. Rude? Yes. English? No.
If he's scottish, I haven't lived amongst enough to form a personal
view.
joan
--
Joan McGalliard, UK http://www.mcgalliard.org
Jan 5th 2003 | 4:23 am
#23
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Posts: n/a
Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
> Miguel Cruz wrote:
> > Joan McGalliard wrote:
> > > It seems possible here that the bad mannered ones here could be Colleen
> > > and her boyfriend. Perhaps your friend was shocked that you so little
> > > appreciated his efforts that you weren't even prepared to offer him the
> > > nicer room.
> > Anyone who presumes to decide what gift they deserve from someone else is
> > being rude, in my opinion. [...]
> As a child I was taught that, if you do something nice for someone only
> because you expect to get something in return, you're doing it for the
> wrong reasons! (And perhaps deserve to be disappointed.) [...]
My feelings, as well. If I arrange something with my friends, then
I am doing it out of friendship and to enjoy their company, not
because I expect to get something in return. Similarly, I can
appreciate it if friends bring a bottle of wine when they come to
dinner -- but I invite guests for dinner because I enjoy their
company, not in order to replenish my wine collection.
--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?
> Miguel Cruz wrote:
> > Joan McGalliard wrote:
> > > It seems possible here that the bad mannered ones here could be Colleen
> > > and her boyfriend. Perhaps your friend was shocked that you so little
> > > appreciated his efforts that you weren't even prepared to offer him the
> > > nicer room.
> > Anyone who presumes to decide what gift they deserve from someone else is
> > being rude, in my opinion. [...]
> As a child I was taught that, if you do something nice for someone only
> because you expect to get something in return, you're doing it for the
> wrong reasons! (And perhaps deserve to be disappointed.) [...]
My feelings, as well. If I arrange something with my friends, then
I am doing it out of friendship and to enjoy their company, not
because I expect to get something in return. Similarly, I can
appreciate it if friends bring a bottle of wine when they come to
dinner -- but I invite guests for dinner because I enjoy their
company, not in order to replenish my wine collection.
--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?
Jan 5th 2003 | 5:53 am
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
loobyloo wrote:
>
> Tom Odda - a made-up name if ever I've heard one - said
>
> >valid. A number of British TV series I've seen recently (the 1900's
> >house, 1940's house, the Iron Age one, and the one where they try to
> >form a society on an isolated island for a year) were somewhat spoiled
> >by all the complaining people did.
>
> They were complaining in private though (well, I know it's on TV but
> you know what I mean). In public I think the English do put up with
> awful service and food that North Americans wouldn't tolderate.
Well.... when it comes to food, I'm afraid a great many North Americans
can't tell the difference! (They don't recognize it as "awful".)
> --
>
> Cliff Laine, Flat 798, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster
> remove any trace of rudeness before you reply
> __________________________________________________ _________
> If anyone asked me 'Should auld acquaintance be forgot?' -
> on the whole, I would say "yes".
>
> Clement Freud
>
> Tom Odda - a made-up name if ever I've heard one - said
>
> >valid. A number of British TV series I've seen recently (the 1900's
> >house, 1940's house, the Iron Age one, and the one where they try to
> >form a society on an isolated island for a year) were somewhat spoiled
> >by all the complaining people did.
>
> They were complaining in private though (well, I know it's on TV but
> you know what I mean). In public I think the English do put up with
> awful service and food that North Americans wouldn't tolderate.
Well.... when it comes to food, I'm afraid a great many North Americans
can't tell the difference! (They don't recognize it as "awful".)
> --
>
> Cliff Laine, Flat 798, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster
> remove any trace of rudeness before you reply
> __________________________________________________ _________
> If anyone asked me 'Should auld acquaintance be forgot?' -
> on the whole, I would say "yes".
>
> Clement Freud
Jan 5th 2003 | 8:27 am
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
In article ,
[email protected] (MeraMira) wrote:
> My boyfriend and I live in Canada and we recently spent the weekend
> (in Quebec, Canada) with our new friends who moved here last year from
> the UK (we're all in our mid-30s). They booked a lovely B&B and when
> we arrived there was a choice as to which couple would stay in which
> room. Of course we all slightly preferred one of the rooms and I, in
> Canadian-style, suggested that we flip a coin. Our British friend,
> Ian, was apalled and insisted, as he had booked the rooms, that they
> would take their choice. I thought that he was joking and proceeded
> with the coin toss which, luckily for everyone, his girlfriend won. I
> thought no more of it (the fairness of a coin-toss being
> irrefutable!). Not so he. Would someone kindly provide a British
> perspective of this transgression and explain how it is that one
> recovers from such an offence.
> -- Colleen
When I book a rental villa, make the financial commitments, etc etc and
then share with another couple I generally assume that as the person
doing the work and taking the financial risk that the master bedroom is
mine and my husbands. If we share for long periods, we switch off if
the rooms available are dramatically different.
It doesn't seem odd to me that the person who has done the work should
occupy the better room, although he should have been more gracious and
your suggestion to flip is reasonable. A lot depends on how much work
was involved.
[email protected] (MeraMira) wrote:
> My boyfriend and I live in Canada and we recently spent the weekend
> (in Quebec, Canada) with our new friends who moved here last year from
> the UK (we're all in our mid-30s). They booked a lovely B&B and when
> we arrived there was a choice as to which couple would stay in which
> room. Of course we all slightly preferred one of the rooms and I, in
> Canadian-style, suggested that we flip a coin. Our British friend,
> Ian, was apalled and insisted, as he had booked the rooms, that they
> would take their choice. I thought that he was joking and proceeded
> with the coin toss which, luckily for everyone, his girlfriend won. I
> thought no more of it (the fairness of a coin-toss being
> irrefutable!). Not so he. Would someone kindly provide a British
> perspective of this transgression and explain how it is that one
> recovers from such an offence.
> -- Colleen
When I book a rental villa, make the financial commitments, etc etc and
then share with another couple I generally assume that as the person
doing the work and taking the financial risk that the master bedroom is
mine and my husbands. If we share for long periods, we switch off if
the rooms available are dramatically different.
It doesn't seem odd to me that the person who has done the work should
occupy the better room, although he should have been more gracious and
your suggestion to flip is reasonable. A lot depends on how much work
was involved.
Jan 5th 2003 | 8:47 am
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" - a made-up
name if ever I've heard one - said
>Well.... when it comes to food, I'm afraid a great many North Americans
>can't tell the difference! (They don't recognize it as "awful".)
I agree - the UK and the US are divided on a lot of things, but one
thing that unites us is the awfulness of most of the food.
--
Cliff Laine, Flat 798, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster
remove any trace of rudeness before you reply
__________________________________________________ _________
If anyone asked me 'Should auld acquaintance be forgot?' -
on the whole, I would say "yes".
Clement Freud
name if ever I've heard one - said
>Well.... when it comes to food, I'm afraid a great many North Americans
>can't tell the difference! (They don't recognize it as "awful".)
I agree - the UK and the US are divided on a lot of things, but one
thing that unites us is the awfulness of most of the food.
--
Cliff Laine, Flat 798, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster
remove any trace of rudeness before you reply
__________________________________________________ _________
If anyone asked me 'Should auld acquaintance be forgot?' -
on the whole, I would say "yes".
Clement Freud
Jan 5th 2003 | 5:06 pm
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
loobyloo wrote:
>
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" - a made-up
> name if ever I've heard one - said
Actually, it's NOT - made up, that is. (Except for the screen-name,
which seemed appropriate for a once-upon-a-time opera singer)
>
> >
> >Well.... when it comes to food, I'm afraid a great many North Americans
> >can't tell the difference! (They don't recognize it as "awful".)
> >
>
> I agree - the UK and the US are divided on a lot of things, but one
> thing that unites us is the awfulness of most of the food.
And yet we do have some very good "traditional" fare! For the UK:
roast beef and Yorkshire pudding, shepherd's pie, trifle.... For the
US: Virginia baked ham, pecan pie... even the lowly hamburger (if it's
made with good-quality ingredients - I'm not talking "Big Mac" and its
clones).
>
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" - a made-up
> name if ever I've heard one - said
Actually, it's NOT - made up, that is. (Except for the screen-name,
which seemed appropriate for a once-upon-a-time opera singer)
>
> >
> >Well.... when it comes to food, I'm afraid a great many North Americans
> >can't tell the difference! (They don't recognize it as "awful".)
> >
>
> I agree - the UK and the US are divided on a lot of things, but one
> thing that unites us is the awfulness of most of the food.
And yet we do have some very good "traditional" fare! For the UK:
roast beef and Yorkshire pudding, shepherd's pie, trifle.... For the
US: Virginia baked ham, pecan pie... even the lowly hamburger (if it's
made with good-quality ingredients - I'm not talking "Big Mac" and its
clones).
Jan 6th 2003 | 2:27 am
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
In article ,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
> loobyloo wrote:
> >
> > "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" - a made-up
> > name if ever I've heard one - said
>
> Actually, it's NOT - made up, that is. (Except for the screen-name,
> which seemed appropriate for a once-upon-a-time opera singer)
>
> >
> > >
> > >Well.... when it comes to food, I'm afraid a great many North Americans
> > >can't tell the difference! (They don't recognize it as "awful".)
> > >
> >
> > I agree - the UK and the US are divided on a lot of things, but one
> > thing that unites us is the awfulness of most of the food.
>
> And yet we do have some very good "traditional" fare! For the UK:
> roast beef and Yorkshire pudding, shepherd's pie, trifle.... For the
> US: Virginia baked ham, pecan pie... even the lowly hamburger (if it's
> made with good-quality ingredients - I'm not talking "Big Mac" and its
> clones).
The US has lots of great cuisine -- excellent beef particularly steaks
of far better quality and taste than generally found in Europe, New
England boil, barbecued ribs and assorted varieties of pulled pork
barbecue with various regional touches [and for Europeans in this group
- 'barbecue' is not cooking meet on a grill outside -- that is grilling
[which I believe you apply to frying on a flat grill] it is particular
style of preparation of pork [some apply to beef as well but that is not
generally accepted as barbecue], hard smoked salmon and grilled salmon
in the northwest, fruit and pumpkin pies [not better than European
desert tarts etc but different], creole foods in Louisiana, many
regional lunch foods like Philly cheese steak and a very wide
availability of ethnic restaurants of all sorts.
We love eating in Europe -- many delightful things that are not easy to
come by in the US without a search -- the availability of local fresh
produce is also a great strength of much European cuisine although as
with good bread Europe seems to be heading in the US mass produced and
transported direction there. Neither bread nor produce is as reliably
good as it was even 10 years ago in places like Paris, Florence, Rome.
Cheese is particularly superiod in Europe -- partly due no doubt to the
less restrictive laws on using unpasteurized milks in cheeses. We can
good pretty good cheese in the US but you have to look a bit for it.
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
> loobyloo wrote:
> >
> > "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" - a made-up
> > name if ever I've heard one - said
>
> Actually, it's NOT - made up, that is. (Except for the screen-name,
> which seemed appropriate for a once-upon-a-time opera singer)
>
> >
> > >
> > >Well.... when it comes to food, I'm afraid a great many North Americans
> > >can't tell the difference! (They don't recognize it as "awful".)
> > >
> >
> > I agree - the UK and the US are divided on a lot of things, but one
> > thing that unites us is the awfulness of most of the food.
>
> And yet we do have some very good "traditional" fare! For the UK:
> roast beef and Yorkshire pudding, shepherd's pie, trifle.... For the
> US: Virginia baked ham, pecan pie... even the lowly hamburger (if it's
> made with good-quality ingredients - I'm not talking "Big Mac" and its
> clones).
The US has lots of great cuisine -- excellent beef particularly steaks
of far better quality and taste than generally found in Europe, New
England boil, barbecued ribs and assorted varieties of pulled pork
barbecue with various regional touches [and for Europeans in this group
- 'barbecue' is not cooking meet on a grill outside -- that is grilling
[which I believe you apply to frying on a flat grill] it is particular
style of preparation of pork [some apply to beef as well but that is not
generally accepted as barbecue], hard smoked salmon and grilled salmon
in the northwest, fruit and pumpkin pies [not better than European
desert tarts etc but different], creole foods in Louisiana, many
regional lunch foods like Philly cheese steak and a very wide
availability of ethnic restaurants of all sorts.
We love eating in Europe -- many delightful things that are not easy to
come by in the US without a search -- the availability of local fresh
produce is also a great strength of much European cuisine although as
with good bread Europe seems to be heading in the US mass produced and
transported direction there. Neither bread nor produce is as reliably
good as it was even 10 years ago in places like Paris, Florence, Rome.
Cheese is particularly superiod in Europe -- partly due no doubt to the
less restrictive laws on using unpasteurized milks in cheeses. We can
good pretty good cheese in the US but you have to look a bit for it.
Jan 7th 2003 | 10:40 am
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 18:58:46 GMT, [email protected] (P J Wallace) wrote:
>Would I be right in thinking this guy was also keeping a meticulous
>tally of who ordered what in every restaurant, who paid out more on
>petrol, and so on?
What's wrong with that? I do that everytime I travel with a group
of friends.
--
Ask me for directions.
>Would I be right in thinking this guy was also keeping a meticulous
>tally of who ordered what in every restaurant, who paid out more on
>petrol, and so on?
What's wrong with that? I do that everytime I travel with a group
of friends.
--
Ask me for directions.
Jan 7th 2003 | 3:26 pm
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
Jesper Lauridsen wrote:
> [email protected] (P J Wallace) wrote:
>> Would I be right in thinking this guy was also keeping a meticulous
>> tally of who ordered what in every restaurant, who paid out more on
>> petrol, and so on?
> What's wrong with that? I do that everytime I travel with a group
> of friends.
Have those groups grown smaller over the years?
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest addition: 80 photos from Guatemala
> [email protected] (P J Wallace) wrote:
>> Would I be right in thinking this guy was also keeping a meticulous
>> tally of who ordered what in every restaurant, who paid out more on
>> petrol, and so on?
> What's wrong with that? I do that everytime I travel with a group
> of friends.
Have those groups grown smaller over the years?
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest addition: 80 photos from Guatemala
