B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
 

My boyfriend and I live in Canada and we recently spent the weekend
(in Quebec, Canada) with our new friends who moved here last year from
the UK (we're all in our mid-30s). They booked a lovely B&B and when
we arrived there was a choice as to which couple would stay in which
room. Of course we all slightly preferred one of the rooms and I, in
Canadian-style, suggested that we flip a coin. Our British friend,
Ian, was apalled and insisted, as he had booked the rooms, that they
would take their choice. I thought that he was joking and proceeded
with the coin toss which, luckily for everyone, his girlfriend won. I
thought no more of it (the fairness of a coin-toss being
irrefutable!). Not so he. Would someone kindly provide a British
perspective of this transgression and explain how it is that one
recovers from such an offence.
-- Colleen

Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British
 

On 2/1/03 16:49, in article [email protected],
"MeraMira" wrote:

    > My boyfriend and I live in Canada and we recently spent the weekend
    > (in Quebec, Canada) with our new friends who moved here last year from
    > the UK (we're all in our mid-30s). They booked a lovely B&B and when
    > we arrived there was a choice as to which couple would stay in which
    > room. Of course we all slightly preferred one of the rooms and I, in
    > Canadian-style, suggested that we flip a coin. Our British friend,
    > Ian, was apalled and insisted, as he had booked the rooms, that they
    > would take their choice. I thought that he was joking and proceeded
    > with the coin toss which, luckily for everyone, his girlfriend won. I
    > thought no more of it (the fairness of a coin-toss being
    > irrefutable!). Not so he. Would someone kindly provide a British
    > perspective of this transgression and explain how it is that one
    > recovers from such an offence.
    > -- Colleen

I live in London and know of no "British perspective" on the issue.

Your "friends" seem to me to be boors.

Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
 

On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 16:49:29 GMT, MeraMira wrote

    > My boyfriend and I live in Canada and we recently spent the
    > weekend (in Quebec, Canada) with our new friends who moved here
    > last year from the UK (we're all in our mid-30s). They booked a
    > lovely B&B and when we arrived there was a choice as to which
    > couple would stay in which room. Of course we all slightly
    > preferred one of the rooms and I, in Canadian-style, suggested
    > that we flip a coin. Our British friend, Ian, was apalled and
    > insisted, as he had booked the rooms, that they would take their
    > choice.

Having lived in both countries for 30 years (Canada) and 20 years
(England), your friend's behaviour surprises me.

I'm not at all surprised that he might have been unhappy with your
suggestion of a coin-toss -- the expected alternative would be an
exchange of "you guys have it/no, you guys have it/no, no, you're too
kind/well, OK then, ta' very much -- but I am surprised that he made
his disagreement plain. (I'd have expected him to go along with the
suggestion, even if he didn't like it, and then to complain to his
girlfriend when they were alone.)

    > toss which, luckily for everyone, his girlfriend won. I thought
    > no more of it (the fairness of a coin-toss being irrefutable!).
    > Not so he. Would someone kindly provide a British perspective of
    > this transgression and explain how it is that one recovers from
    > such an offence.

FWIW, I think the severity of the "transgression" is his problem, not
yours, and that all you can do now is to say that you thought your
approach was correct; he clearly disagrees; and that you're very
sorry, but you'll have to agree to disagree on the social conventions
of that situation.

--
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 20 years.

For e-mail, harvey becomes whhvs.

Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
 

MeraMira wrote:
    > My boyfriend and I live in Canada and we recently spent the weekend (in
    > Quebec, Canada) with our new friends who moved here last year from the UK
    > (we're all in our mid-30s). They booked a lovely B&B and when we arrived
    > there was a choice as to which couple would stay in which room. Of course
    > we all slightly preferred one of the rooms and I, in Canadian-style,
    > suggested that we flip a coin. Our British friend, Ian, was apalled and
    > insisted, as he had booked the rooms, that they would take their choice.

I'm not British but his behavior seems bizarrely rude to me, and living in
the UK, I found nothing to make me think that it would be any less bizarre
there. Maybe that's why he had to move to Canada.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest addition: 80 photos from Guatemala

Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
 

"MeraMira" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > My boyfriend and I live in Canada and we recently spent the weekend
    > (in Quebec, Canada) with our new friends who moved here last year from
    > the UK (we're all in our mid-30s). They booked a lovely B&B and when
    > we arrived there was a choice as to which couple would stay in which
    > room. Of course we all slightly preferred one of the rooms and I, in
    > Canadian-style, suggested that we flip a coin. Our British friend,
    > Ian, was apalled and insisted, as he had booked the rooms, that they
    > would take their choice. I thought that he was joking and proceeded
    > with the coin toss which, luckily for everyone, his girlfriend won. I
    > thought no more of it (the fairness of a coin-toss being
    > irrefutable!). Not so he. Would someone kindly provide a British
    > perspective of this transgression and explain how it is that one
    > recovers from such an offence.
    > -- Colleen

I guess it is the Canadian definition of the word friend that needs
explaining.
Or maybe he was intending to take the worse room and give you the better
one.

Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
 

On 2 Jan 2003 08:49:29 -0800, [email protected] (MeraMira) wrote:

    >My boyfriend and I live in Canada and we recently spent the weekend
    >(in Quebec, Canada) with our new friends who moved here last year from
    >the UK (we're all in our mid-30s). They booked a lovely B&B and when
    >we arrived there was a choice as to which couple would stay in which
    >room. Of course we all slightly preferred one of the rooms and I, in
    >Canadian-style, suggested that we flip a coin. Our British friend,
    >Ian, was apalled and insisted, as he had booked the rooms, that they
    >would take their choice. I thought that he was joking and proceeded
    >with the coin toss which, luckily for everyone, his girlfriend won. I
    >thought no more of it (the fairness of a coin-toss being
    >irrefutable!). Not so he. Would someone kindly provide a British
    >perspective of this transgression and explain how it is that one
    >recovers from such an offence.
    >-- Colleen


Good Grief Colleen-------------I think your new friend ( sorry) is
just a boor! It certainly would not happen within our circle of
friends ( did he come from England )
Elma in Glasgow, Scotland, UK
(Remove spex to reply by email)

Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
 

On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 17:13:03 GMT, Scottish Quilter wrote

    > On 2 Jan 2003 08:49:29 -0800, [email protected] (MeraMira)
    > wrote:
    >
-snip re: room choices-

    >> Our British friend, Ian, was apalled and insisted, as he had
    >> booked the rooms, that they would take their choice.

-snip-
    >
    > Good Grief Colleen-------------I think your new friend ( sorry) is
    > just a boor! It certainly would not happen within our circle of
    > friends ( did he come from England )
    > Elma in Glasgow, Scotland, UK
    > (Remove spex to reply by email)
    >

Ah -- but the guy's name is "Ian", which mean's that it's odds on that
he's from......um....well, y'know........ ;))

--
Cheers,
Harvey

For e-mail, harvey becomes whhvs.

Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
 

I don't think this is anything to do with national cultures or
expectations. I'm of an older generation (Ican now admit without
shame) and I was not brought up to behave as your 'friend' behaved.
Most British people would I think have gone all around the houses to
avoid appearing selfish (much though they would have liked to be), and
would indeed simply say 'Toss you for it' and think nothing of the
outcome, one way or the other. If they were real friends they could
indeed joke about it; if they were new friends they would have been
doubly deferential, I think.

Would I be right in thinking this guy was also keeping a meticulous
tally of who ordered what in every restaurant, who paid out more on
petrol, and so on? And that his girlfriend might have moved on by
now....?

PJW

On 2 Jan 2003 08:49:29 -0800, [email protected] (MeraMira) wrote:
    > Would someone kindly provide a British
    >perspective of this transgression and explain how it is that one
    >recovers from such an offence.
    >-- Colleen

Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
 

"MeraMira" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > My boyfriend and I live in Canada and we recently spent the weekend
    > (in Quebec, Canada) with our new friends who moved here last year from
    > the UK (we're all in our mid-30s). They booked a lovely B&B and when
    > we arrived there was a choice as to which couple would stay in which
    > room. Of course we all slightly preferred one of the rooms and I, in
    > Canadian-style, suggested that we flip a coin. Our British friend,
    > Ian, was apalled and insisted, as he had booked the rooms, that they
    > would take their choice. I thought that he was joking and proceeded
    > with the coin toss which, luckily for everyone, his girlfriend won. I
    > thought no more of it (the fairness of a coin-toss being
    > irrefutable!). Not so he. Would someone kindly provide a British
    > perspective of this transgression and explain how it is that one
    > recovers from such an offence.
    > -- Colleen

Challenge him to a duel and because you challenged him you can
choose whether its pistols at dawn or toss a coin !!!

Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
 

MeraMira wrote:

    > My boyfriend and I live in Canada and we recently spent the weekend
    > (in Quebec, Canada) with our new friends who moved here last year from
    > the UK (we're all in our mid-30s). They booked a lovely B&B and when
    > we arrived there was a choice as to which couple would stay in which
    > room. Of course we all slightly preferred one of the rooms and I, in
    > Canadian-style, suggested that we flip a coin. Our British friend,

Had you thanked your friend by this point for going to the trouble of
organising the holiday, and finding such a nice B&B? Had you
acknowledge the effort he had gone to?

It seems possible here that the bad mannered ones here could be Colleen
and her boyfriend. Perhaps your friend was shocked that you so little
appreciated his efforts that you weren't even prepared to offer him the
nicer room.

I've organised weekends away for 4 people. When the other couple just
said "thanks for making this happen", I was really pleased.

Of course, your friend may just be an arsehole, but other explanations
are possible.

joan

ps: I'm not British.

--
Joan McGalliard, UK http://www.mcgalliard.org

Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
 

Joan McGalliard wrote:
    > It seems possible here that the bad mannered ones here could be Colleen
    > and her boyfriend. Perhaps your friend was shocked that you so little
    > appreciated his efforts that you weren't even prepared to offer him the
    > nicer room.

Anyone who presumes to decide what gift they deserve from someone else is
being rude, in my opinion.

Maybe they were planning to get him a bottle of wine. Maybe he didn't really
do any work, or found the worst B&B available.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest addition: 80 photos from Guatemala

Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
 

Joan McGalliard wrote:
    >
    > MeraMira wrote:
    >
    > > My boyfriend and I live in Canada and we recently spent the weekend
    > > (in Quebec, Canada) with our new friends who moved here last year from
    > > the UK (we're all in our mid-30s). They booked a lovely B&B and when
    > > we arrived there was a choice as to which couple would stay in which
    > > room. Of course we all slightly preferred one of the rooms and I, in
    > > Canadian-style, suggested that we flip a coin. Our British friend,
    >
    > Had you thanked your friend by this point for going to the trouble of
    > organising the holiday, and finding such a nice B&B? Had you
    > acknowledge the effort he had gone to?
    >
    > It seems possible here that the bad mannered ones here could be Colleen
    > and her boyfriend. Perhaps your friend was shocked that you so little
    > appreciated his efforts that you weren't even prepared to offer him the
    > nicer room.

If I had organized a weekend getaway for four, I would have made sure
that the other couple got the nicest room. I think most people would.
Likewise, when I prepare a dinner for guests, I never take the nicest
piece of the roast or the biggest piece of the cake.

Barbara

Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
 

Barbara Vaughan wrote:

    >Likewise, when I prepare a dinner for guests, I never take the nicest
    >piece of the roast or the biggest piece of the cake.
The host always has the advantage of the opportunities in the kitchen.
It would be excessive to take further advantage at the table.

PB

Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
 

Miguel Cruz wrote:

    > Maybe they were planning to get him a bottle of wine. Maybe he didn't really
    > do any work, or found the worst B&B available.

Sure, maybe. I just don't think we have enough information to assume
that the friend was in the wrong. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. Maybe
something the original poster didn't mention - because she didn't notice
it or didn't think it was important - is actually the cause of the
problem here.

Anyway, back to the original question: complaining when you don't like
something is certainly not an English trait. When you are talking about
cultural things like this, I wouldn't use "British." I think, for
instance, a Scotsman would be more likely to complain than go away
unhappy, while English (on average) seem resigned to suffering in
silence.

joan
--
Joan McGalliard, UK http://www.mcgalliard.org

Re: B&B Etiquette question -- Need to understand the British perspective
 

Joan McGalliard wrote:

    > Anyway, back to the original question: complaining when you don't like
    > something is certainly not an English trait. When you are talking about
    > cultural things like this, I wouldn't use "British." I think, for
    > instance, a Scotsman would be more likely to complain than go away
    > unhappy, while English (on average) seem resigned to suffering in
    > silence.

Wow. That certainly goes against the general perceived stereotype,
which has been the subject of jokes abroad and within (I recall a Monty
Python sketch...). It's been my perception in travelling with English
that the stereotype is exaggerated (as they usually are), but basically
valid. A number of British TV series I've seen recently (the 1900's
house, 1940's house, the Iron Age one, and the one where they try to
form a society on an isolated island for a year) were somewhat spoiled
by all the complaining people did.