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Another French customer service experience

Another French customer service experience

Old Oct 30th 2004, 11:23 pm
  #76  
nitram
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another French customer service experience

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:13:23 +0100, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >JohnT writes:
    >> I have a pair of Clarks Active Air shoes for which I paid about GBP £50 two
    >> years ago. I have walked at least 300 miles in them and they are showing a
    >> negligible amount of wear.



    >I look upon 300 miles as a break-in period.

Clarks Active Air shoes are comfortable from day one, they need no
breaking in.

So why do you find it acceptable that the soles of Jeremey's shoes are
worn out after 4 weeks of moderate use?
--
Martin
 
Old Oct 30th 2004, 11:30 pm
  #77  
Ellie C
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another French customer service experience

Jeremy Henderson wrote:
    > On 2004-10-31 09:49:40 +0100, Ellie C <[email protected]> said:
    >
    >> Alan (in Brussels) wrote:
    >>> "Jeremy Henderson" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    >>> news:[email protected]...
    >>>> In a continuing series...
    >>>> A little over a month ago I bought a pair of shoes from Minelli - a
    >>>> chain of shoe shops here in Frogland. After 4 weeks of occasional wear
    >>>> to take me from home to the RER station to work and back I noticed that
    >>>> the heels of both shoes were completely destroyed, with holes appearing
    >>>> where the thin rubber had been worn away. It's true that I am hard on
    >>>> shoes, but this is certainly the first time that they've disintegrated
    >>>> quite so rapidly.
    >>>> So I decided to return them to the shop.
    >>> <SNIP>
    >>>> So I will end with a plea for advice from our French readers, and other
    >>>> knowledgeable folk: what organisations exist to look after the rights
    >>>> of consumers in France, what recourse do I have, and where can I inform
    >>>> myself of my options (yes, Google ... :-)
    >>> As this story appears not to involve anything requiring EU intervention,
    >>> IMHO the most appropriate organisation is:
    >>> L'Union fédérale des Consommateurs - Que Choisir:
    >>> http://www.quechoisir.fr
    >>> Regards,
    >>> - Alan (in Brussels - mind the spamtrap)
    >> Hmmm. Looks like a useful site. Maybe I can find something about a 3
    >> year old roof that allowed gallons of water to run into my art studio
    >> this morning. ;-(
    >> I suspect I'll just have to pay to have it redone. The fellow who did
    >> it decided he was tired of working as a handyman and moved back to
    >> Normandy a couple of years ago. Sigh.
    >
    >
    > Another one is http://www.particulier.fr, and also fr.misc.droit. Our
    > friend Google reveals that there is a procedure at the "Tribunal
    > d'Instance" that seems to resemble the UK Small Claims Court that may be
    > worth pursuing, depending on the response to an epistle to their head
    > office that I penned last night and sent by the abysmal "electronic
    > recorded delivery" service at www.laposte.fr
    >
    > What fun!
    >
    > J;
    >
Arrgghhhhh. Don't get me started with LaPoste! They absolutely refuse to
ring the bell when delivering (hah!) packages. What actually happens is
they go around town delivering "you weren't home" notices, whether or
hnot you are home. They don't know because they never ring to find out.
This means you wait a couple of days to get whatever it is at the post
office. Most times this isn't a problem, but I've been ordering plants
and half of them are dead by the time I can pick them up. If I get the
notice on Friday - and for some reason they always seem to arrive on
Friday - the package usually can't be picked up until Monday afternoon.
And god forbid there's a holicay on that Monday...
 
Old Oct 30th 2004, 11:36 pm
  #78  
nitram
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another French customer service experience

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:30:08 +0100, Ellie C <[email protected]>
wrote:


    >Arrgghhhhh. Don't get me started with LaPoste! They absolutely refuse to
    >ring the bell when delivering (hah!) packages. What actually happens is
    >they go around town delivering "you weren't home" notices, whether or
    >hnot you are home. They don't know because they never ring to find out.
    >This means you wait a couple of days to get whatever it is at the post
    >office. Most times this isn't a problem, but I've been ordering plants
    >and half of them are dead by the time I can pick them up. If I get the
    >notice on Friday - and for some reason they always seem to arrive on
    >Friday - the package usually can't be picked up until Monday afternoon.
    >And god forbid there's a holicay on that Monday...

I've heard the same thing from friends living near Nice.

Incidentally the EU directive applicable to guarantees is

Directive 1999/44/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of
25 May 1999 on certain aspects of the sale of consumer goods and
associated guarantees

http://www.europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexapi!prod!CELEXnumdoc&lg=en&n umdoc=31999L0044&model=guichett

It is implemented in national consumer laws of the member states
--
Martin
 
Old Oct 30th 2004, 11:39 pm
  #79  
Ellie C
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another French customer service experience

Magda wrote:

    > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:22:27 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected] arranged some
    > electrons, so they looked like this :
    >
    > ... Meanwhile buy a pair of Clark's shoes before the rush starts :-)
    > ... http://www.clarks.fr/ http://www.clarks.com/
    > ...
    > ... Never buy shoes from a spammer, get them from Al Bundy.
    >
    > Why is it that the FR site has sizes in English ??
    >
    > What's the equivalent to 34 ?
    >
2 - otherwise known as very tiny!
 
Old Oct 30th 2004, 11:42 pm
  #80  
Mxsmanic
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another French customer service experience

[email protected] writes:

    > You have posted getting on for 20 posts saying that Jeremy had no
    > rights. I know what the law is.

No, you do not.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
 
Old Oct 30th 2004, 11:43 pm
  #81  
Magda
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another French customer service experience

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:07:31 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected] arranged some
electrons, so they looked like this :


... Children's size 1.5
...
... http://www.bata.com/just_fun/size_chart.htm
...
... Never mind Cinders you shall go to the ball :-)

The mice have left the house - no one to sew my dress. ;)
 
Old Oct 30th 2004, 11:43 pm
  #82  
Mxsmanic
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another French customer service experience

[email protected] writes:

    > Clarks Active Air shoes are comfortable from day one, they need no
    > breaking in.

All good shoes are initially comfortable, but they tend to become
slightly more so after a break-in period.

    > So why do you find it acceptable that the soles of Jeremey's shoes are
    > worn out after 4 weeks of moderate use?

I don't know whether it is acceptable or not, since he has provided
virtually no information on the circumstances.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
 
Old Oct 30th 2004, 11:45 pm
  #83  
nitram
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another French customer service experience

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:42:14 +0100, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >[email protected] writes:
    >> You have posted getting on for 20 posts saying that Jeremy had no
    >> rights. I know what the law is.
    >No, you do not.

Is this another of your no you don't, yes I do arguments?

Put up or shut up

Hint:
http://www.europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexapi!prod!CELEXnumdoc&lg=en&n umdoc=31999L0044&model=guichett
--
Martin
 
Old Oct 30th 2004, 11:48 pm
  #84  
Magda
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another French customer service experience

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:30:08 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Ellie C <[email protected]>
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :


... Arrgghhhhh. Don't get me started with LaPoste! They absolutely refuse to
... ring the bell when delivering (hah!) packages. What actually happens is
... they go around town delivering "you weren't home" notices, whether or
... hnot you are home. They don't know because they never ring to find out.
... This means you wait a couple of days to get whatever it is at the post
... office. Most times this isn't a problem, but I've been ordering plants
... and half of them are dead by the time I can pick them up. If I get the
... notice on Friday - and for some reason they always seem to arrive on
... Friday - the package usually can't be picked up until Monday afternoon.
... And god forbid there's a holiday on that Monday...

In my case I understand (well, I make an effort) because I live in the 4th floor (no lift)
- but not *ringing the bell* ??

Many times I have written "Liar" in red letters under the mention "absent". They don't
give a rat's.
 
Old Oct 30th 2004, 11:48 pm
  #85  
nitram
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another French customer service experience

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:43:07 +0100, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >[email protected] writes:
    >> Clarks Active Air shoes are comfortable from day one, they need no
    >> breaking in.
    >All good shoes are initially comfortable, but they tend to become
    >slightly more so after a break-in period.
    >> So why do you find it acceptable that the soles of Jeremey's shoes are
    >> worn out after 4 weeks of moderate use?
    >I don't know whether it is acceptable or not, since he has provided
    >virtually no information on the circumstances.

So why did you say he couldn't claim under the guarantee?
--
Martin
 
Old Oct 30th 2004, 11:53 pm
  #86  
nitram
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another French customer service experience

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:48:10 +0100, Magda
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:30:08 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Ellie C <[email protected]>
    >arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ... Arrgghhhhh. Don't get me started with LaPoste! They absolutely refuse to
    > ... ring the bell when delivering (hah!) packages. What actually happens is
    > ... they go around town delivering "you weren't home" notices, whether or
    > ... hnot you are home. They don't know because they never ring to find out.
    > ... This means you wait a couple of days to get whatever it is at the post
    > ... office. Most times this isn't a problem, but I've been ordering plants
    > ... and half of them are dead by the time I can pick them up. If I get the
    > ... notice on Friday - and for some reason they always seem to arrive on
    > ... Friday - the package usually can't be picked up until Monday afternoon.
    > ... And god forbid there's a holiday on that Monday...
    >In my case I understand (well, I make an effort) because I live in the 4th floor (no lift)
    >- but not *ringing the bell* ??

Only the American postman rings twice and that's not because he wants
to deliver letters :-)

    >Many times I have written "Liar" in red letters under the mention "absent". They don't
    >give a rat's.

Our postman/woman delivers by number, but hasn't mastered street names
yet.

--
Martin
 
Old Oct 30th 2004, 11:57 pm
  #87  
Magda
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another French customer service experience

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:39:14 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Ellie C <[email protected]>
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... Magda wrote:
...
... > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:22:27 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected] arranged some
... > electrons, so they looked like this :
... >
... > ... Meanwhile buy a pair of Clark's shoes before the rush starts :-)
... > ... http://www.clarks.fr/ http://www.clarks.com/
... > ...
... > ... Never buy shoes from a spammer, get them from Al Bundy.
... >
... > Why is it that the FR site has sizes in English ??
... >
... > What's the equivalent to 34 ?
... >
... 2 - otherwise known as very tiny!

Tell me about it. I'm tired of being laughed at in shops when I sit down to try kid shoes
on - but my feet adamantly refuse to grow since I was 12. If I cave and ask for a size 35,
they try to sell me a 36 !
 
Old Oct 31st 2004, 12:11 am
  #88  
Ellie C
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another French customer service experience

Magda wrote:

    > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:30:08 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Ellie C <[email protected]>
    > arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    >
    >
    > ... Arrgghhhhh. Don't get me started with LaPoste! They absolutely refuse to
    > ... ring the bell when delivering (hah!) packages. What actually happens is
    > ... they go around town delivering "you weren't home" notices, whether or
    > ... hnot you are home. They don't know because they never ring to find out.
    > ... This means you wait a couple of days to get whatever it is at the post
    > ... office. Most times this isn't a problem, but I've been ordering plants
    > ... and half of them are dead by the time I can pick them up. If I get the
    > ... notice on Friday - and for some reason they always seem to arrive on
    > ... Friday - the package usually can't be picked up until Monday afternoon.
    > ... And god forbid there's a holiday on that Monday...
    >
    > In my case I understand (well, I make an effort) because I live in the 4th floor (no lift)
    > - but not *ringing the bell* ??
    >
    > Many times I have written "Liar" in red letters under the mention "absent". They don't
    > give a rat's.
    >
Yeah, not ringing the bell at all! I *saw* them come here last week but
I didn't get to the door fast enough to yell at them to bring the
package. Interesting to see that it's not just our local LaPoste that
does this. The folks here in the LaPoste office in Espéraza are very
nice, but the package deliveries are done by LaPoste in the next town,
Couiza.
 
Old Oct 31st 2004, 12:21 am
  #89  
JohnT
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another French customer service experience

"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > JohnT writes:
    >> I have a pair of Clarks Active Air shoes for which I paid about GBP £50 two
    >> years ago. I have walked at least 300 miles in them and they are showing a
    >> negligible amount of wear.
    > I look upon 300 miles as a break-in period.
How do you reconcile that statement with your assertion that Jeremy has no claim
against a retailer who sold him a pair of shoes which self-destructed after a
month or so?

JohnT
 
Old Oct 31st 2004, 12:30 am
  #90  
nitram
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another French customer service experience

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:21:48 -0000, "JohnT"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected].. .
    >> JohnT writes:
    >>> I have a pair of Clarks Active Air shoes for which I paid about GBP £50 two
    >>> years ago. I have walked at least 300 miles in them and they are showing a
    >>> negligible amount of wear.
    >> I look upon 300 miles as a break-in period.
    >How do you reconcile that statement with your assertion that Jeremy has no claim
    >against a retailer who sold him a pair of shoes which self-destructed after a
    >month or so?

and


Article 3
Rights of the consumer
1. The seller shall be liable to the consumer for any lack of
conformity which exists at the time the goods were delivered.
2. In the case of a lack of conformity, the consumer shall be entitled
to have the goods brought into conformity free of charge by repair or
replacement, in accordance with paragraph 3, or to have an appropriate
reduction made in the price or the contract rescinded with regard to
those goods, in accordance with paragraphs 5 and 6.
3. In the first place, the consumer may require the seller to repair
the goods or he may require the seller to replace them, in either case
free of charge, unless this is impossible or disproportionate.
A remedy shall be deemed to be disproportionate if it imposes costs on
the seller which, in comparison with the alternative remedy, are
unreasonable, taking into account:
- the value the goods would have if there were no lack of conformity,
- the significance of the lack of conformity, and
- whether the alternative remedy could be completed without
significant inconvenience to the consumer.
Any repair or replacement shall be completed within a reasonable time
and without any significant inconvenience to the consumer, taking
account of the nature of the goods and the purpose for which the
consumer required the goods.
4. The terms "free of charge" in paragraphs 2 and 3 refer to the
necessary costs incurred to bring the goods into conformity,
particularly the cost of postage, labour and materials.
5. The consumer may require an appropriate reduction of the price or
have the contract rescinded:
- if the consumer is entitled to neither repair nor replacement, or
- if the seller has not completed the remedy within a reasonable time,
or
- if the seller has not completed the remedy without significant
inconvenience to the consumer.
6. The consumer is not entitled to have the contract rescinded if the
lack of conformity is minor.

Article 5
Time limits
1. The seller shall be held liable under Article 3 where the lack of
conformity becomes apparent within two years as from delivery of the
goods. If, under national legislation, the rights laid down in Article
3(2) are subject to a limitation period, that period shall not expire
within a period of two years from the time of delivery.
2. Member States may provide that, in order to benefit from his
rights, the consumer must inform the seller of the lack of conformity
within a period of two months from the date on which he detected such
lack of conformity.
Member States shall inform the Commission of their use of this
paragraph. The Commission shall monitor the effect of the existence of
this option for the Member States on consumers and on the internal
market.
Not later than 7 January 2003, the Commission shall prepare a report
on the use made by Member States of this paragraph. This report shall
be published in the Official Journal of the European Communities.
3. Unless proved otherwise, any lack of conformity which becomes
apparent within six months of delivery of the goods shall be presumed
to have existed at the time of delivery unless this presumption is
incompatible with the nature of the goods or the nature of the lack of
conformity.

Article 6
Guarantees
1. A guarantee shall be legally binding on the offer under the
conditions laid down in the guarantee statement and the associated
advertising.
2. The guarantee shall:
- state that the consumer has legal rights under applicable national
legislation governing the sale of consumer goods and make clear that
those rights are not affected by the guarantee,
- set out in plain intelligible language the contents of the guarantee
and the essential particulars necessary for making claims under the
guarantee, notably the duration and territorial scope of the guarantee
as well as the name and address of the guarantor.
3. On request by the consumer, the guarantee shall be made available
in writing or feature in another durable medium available and
accessible to him.
4. Within its own territory, the Member State in which the consumer
goods are marketed may, in accordance with the rules of the Treaty,
provide that the guarantee be drafted in one or more languages which
it shall determine from among the official languages of the Community.
5. Should a guarantee infringe the requirements of paragraphs 2, 3 or
4, the validity of this guarantee shall in no way be affected, and the
consumer can still rely on the guarantee and require that it be
honoured.

--
Martin
 

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