Another French customer service experience
 

In a continuing series...

A little over a month ago I bought a pair of shoes from Minelli - a
chain of shoe shops here in Frogland. After 4 weeks of occasional wear
to take me from home to the RER station to work and back I noticed that
the heels of both shoes were completely destroyed, with holes appearing
where the thin rubber had been worn away. It's true that I am hard on
shoes, but this is certainly the first time that they've disintegrated
quite so rapidly.

So I decided to return them to the shop.

I though that there would be three possible scenarios:
1. The shop assistant would be very charming, appreciate the
disappointment I'd experienced, and refund my money
2. The assistant would be a typical employee, not give a flying ****
about me or my shoes, but would refund the money because it wasn't her
money anyway, and she didn't give a flying **** about her employer
either.
3. The assistant would be an unhelpful miserable sod who would argue
the toss every step of the way.

In fact it didn't take long for me to find out which was the scenario du jour.

Her - Good morning Monsieur
Me - Good morning Madame. I bought these shoes not long ago and as you
can see the soles are completely worn out
Her -What do you want me to do about it?
Me -I'd like a refund, please
Her -You've got to be ****ing joking. That's normal wear.
Me -It's normal for shoes from this shop to be worn out after a month of wear?
Her -Yes - it depends on the wearer
Me -But this has never happened with any othe shoes
Her -Well I'm going to send them to our technical department and they
may decide to replace them but I doubt it. Come back in 2 weeks.

etc etc etc

I suppose I was expecting an unfriendly reception, but I was shocked by
the aggressiveness and abusiveness that I actually received. Just for
comparison, years ago I bought some shoes from Peter Lord in the UK.
After wearing them for ages a split developed in the sole. They were
replaced without question. The same thing eventually happened to the
replacements and again they were replaced without question.

So I will end with a plea for advice from our French readers, and other
knowledgeable folk: what organisations exist to look after the rights
of consumers in France, what recourse do I have, and where can I inform
myself of my options (yes, Google ... :-)

J;

--
Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG

Re: Another French customer service experience
 

Jeremy Henderson wrote:
    > I suppose I was expecting an unfriendly reception, but I was shocked by
    > the aggressiveness and abusiveness that I actually received. Just for
    > comparison, years ago I bought some shoes from Peter Lord in the UK.
    > After wearing them for ages a split developed in the sole. They were
    > replaced without question. The same thing eventually happened to the
    > replacements and again they were replaced without question.

Remember that consumer protection rights are very strong in the UK. The
retailer has an absolute legal responsibility to take complaints
seriously, and not try and pass them off to the manufacturer. Having
said that, these are rights under EC law, and I would have thought
applied equally in France. I hope you pursued this complaint!

Re: Another French customer service experience
 

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:51:51 +0100, Mike O'Sullivan
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Jeremy Henderson wrote:
    >> I suppose I was expecting an unfriendly reception, but I was shocked by
    >> the aggressiveness and abusiveness that I actually received. Just for
    >> comparison, years ago I bought some shoes from Peter Lord in the UK.
    >> After wearing them for ages a split developed in the sole. They were
    >> replaced without question. The same thing eventually happened to the
    >> replacements and again they were replaced without question.
    >Remember that consumer protection rights are very strong in the UK. The
    >retailer has an absolute legal responsibility to take complaints
    >seriously, and not try and pass them off to the manufacturer. Having
    >said that, these are rights under EC law, and I would have thought
    >applied equally in France. I hope you pursued this complaint!

Consumer rights are supposed to be harmonised throughout the EU.
--
Martin

Re: Another French customer service experience
 

On 2004-10-30 17:17:01 +0200, [email protected] said:

    > On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:51:51 +0100, Mike O'Sullivan
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Jeremy Henderson wrote:
    >>>
    >>> I suppose I was expecting an unfriendly reception, but I was shocked by
    >>> the aggressiveness and abusiveness that I actually received. Just for
    >>> comparison, years ago I bought some shoes from Peter Lord in the UK.
    >>> After wearing them for ages a split developed in the sole. They were
    >>> replaced without question. The same thing eventually happened to the
    >>> replacements and again they were replaced without question.
    >>
    >> Remember that consumer protection rights are very strong in the UK. The
    >> retailer has an absolute legal responsibility to take complaints
    >> seriously, and not try and pass them off to the manufacturer. Having
    >> said that, these are rights under EC law, and I would have thought
    >> applied equally in France. I hope you pursued this complaint!
    >
    > Consumer rights are supposed to be harmonised throughout the EU.

Hmm ... surely you know that EU law doesn't apply in France, except in
certain special cases :-)

Now my problem is finding out who to complain to in order to exercise
my rights ... ?

J;

--
Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG

Re: Another French customer service experience
 

"Jeremy Henderson" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
    > In a continuing series...
    > A little over a month ago I bought a pair of shoes from Minelli -

What a whiner you are. You bought bad shoes. Take your loss and go on with
your life.

Sjoerd

Re: Another French customer service experience
 

On 2004-10-30 18:18:58 +0200, "Sjoerd" <[email protected]> said:

    >
    > "Jeremy Henderson" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> In a continuing series...
    >>
    >> A little over a month ago I bought a pair of shoes from Minelli -
    >
    > What a whiner you are. You bought bad shoes. Take your loss and go on with
    > your life.

Yes, I did - but why should I take the loss? Is it "whining" to expect
things you pay money for to fulfil their function? I sure wish I was a
shopkeeper in your town "Here comes that fool Sjoerd. Let's rip him off
again - he's too dumb to open his mouth to complain"

J;
--
Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG

Re: Another French customer service experience
 

Jeremy Henderson writes:

    > A little over a month ago I bought a pair of shoes from Minelli - a
    > chain of shoe shops here in Frogland. After 4 weeks of occasional wear
    > to take me from home to the RER station to work and back I noticed that
    > the heels of both shoes were completely destroyed, with holes appearing
    > where the thin rubber had been worn away.

Buy shoes with better heels. Cheap shoes (cheaply constructed, that is,
which isn't necessarily correlated with price) can be worn out very
easily in that period of time, if you walk a lot.

    > It's true that I am hard on
    > shoes, but this is certainly the first time that they've disintegrated
    > quite so rapidly.

Next time, buy better shoes.

    > So I decided to return them to the shop.

After four weeks?

    > I suppose I was expecting an unfriendly reception, but I was shocked by
    > the aggressiveness and abusiveness that I actually received.

That's pretty typical for French shops. However, whatever her attitude,
it's true that you shouldn't expect replacement or refund of shoes that
you've been wearing for a month. The changes you describe correspond to
wear and tear, not defective workmanship.

    > Just for comparison, years ago I bought some shoes from Peter
    > Lord in the UK. After wearing them for ages a split developed
    > in the sole. They were replaced without question.

Maybe Peter Lord makes better shoes, and the split was due to a defect.

I've had shoes resoled after several years in Paris for free--French
shoes sold at a French shop. I had been willing to pay for it, but I
was not charged. However, these were very good shoes that were quite
expensive.

    > The same thing eventually happened to the
    > replacements and again they were replaced without question.

How many times does it have to happen before you switch to better shoes?
How many times do you think a shoe store should replace shoes? Should
it replace shoes simply because you wear them out, or only for defects
in manufacturing?

    > So I will end with a plea for advice from our French readers, and other
    > knowledgeable folk: what organisations exist to look after the rights
    > of consumers in France, what recourse do I have, and where can I inform
    > myself of my options (yes, Google ... :-)

It's impossible to give any advice without looking at the shoes in
question, and knowing what you paid for them.

I don't think the store owes you anything if you simply wore them out,
no matter how quickly you did so. Unless there's a defect in
manufacturing, it's up to you to buy replacements.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Re: Another French customer service experience
 

Jeremy Henderson writes:

    > Now my problem is finding out who to complain to in order to exercise
    > my rights ... ?

You don't have rights when it comes to normal wear and tear.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Re: Another French customer service experience
 

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:18:58 +0200, "Sjoerd"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Jeremy Henderson" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> In a continuing series...
    >> A little over a month ago I bought a pair of shoes from Minelli -
    >What a whiner you are. You bought bad shoes. Take your loss and go on with
    >your life.
    >Sjoerd

As you can easily see, there isn't one whit of difference between a
French moron and a Dutch one. Best to avoid both places like the
plague.

Re: Another French customer service experience
 

Jeremy Henderson writes:

    > Yes, I did - but why should I take the loss?

Because you wore them out.

    > Is it "whining" to expect things you pay money for to fulfil
    > their function?

Yes, if you expect them never to wear out in doing so.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Re: Another French customer service experience
 

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:34:50 +0200, Jeremy Henderson <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On 2004-10-30 18:18:58 +0200, "Sjoerd" <[email protected]> said:
    >>
    >> "Jeremy Henderson" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >>> In a continuing series...
    >>>
    >>> A little over a month ago I bought a pair of shoes from Minelli -
    >>
    >> What a whiner you are. You bought bad shoes. Take your loss and go on with
    >> your life.
    >Yes, I did - but why should I take the loss? Is it "whining" to expect
    >things you pay money for to fulfil their function? I sure wish I was a
    >shopkeeper in your town "Here comes that fool Sjoerd. Let's rip him off
    >again - he's too dumb to open his mouth to complain"

Oh, he does lots of complaining but he is surely completely dumb
alright, this having been indicative of his usual posts.

Re: Another French customer service experience
 

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:34:50 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, Jeremy Henderson
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :


... Yes, I did - but why should I take the loss? Is it "whining" to expect
... things you pay money for to fulfil their function? I sure wish I was a
... shopkeeper in your town "Here comes that fool Sjoerd. Let's rip him off
... again - he's too dumb to open his mouth to complain"

What do you do to destroy shoes so fast ?

If you didn't have shoes, would your feet be destroyed by now ?

Re: Another French customer service experience
 

Jeremy Henderson wrote:

    > On 2004-10-30 18:18:58 +0200, "Sjoerd" <[email protected]> said:
    > >
    > > "Jeremy Henderson" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > >> In a continuing series...
    > >>
    > >> A little over a month ago I bought a pair of shoes from Minelli -
    > >
    > > What a whiner you are. You bought bad shoes. Take your loss and go on
with
    > > your life.
    > Yes, I did - but why should I take the loss? Is it "whining" to expect
    > things you pay money for to fulfil their function? I sure wish I was a
    > shopkeeper in your town "Here comes that fool Sjoerd. Let's rip him off
    > again - he's too dumb to open his mouth to complain"


Hehe...there's only *one* thing Sjoerd opens his mouth for...

--
Best
Greg

Re: Another French customer service experience
 

On 2004-10-30 19:07:01 +0200, Mxsmanic <[email protected]> said:

    > Jeremy Henderson writes:
    >
    >> Yes, I did - but why should I take the loss?
    >
    > Because you wore them out.
    >
    >> Is it "whining" to expect things you pay money for to fulfil
    >> their function?
    >
    > Yes, if you expect them never to wear out in doing so.

Remind me where my post used the word "never".

Oh yes, it didn't. So, just another of your little straw men, eh?

J;

Re: Another French customer service experience
 

On 2004-10-30 19:08:33 +0200, Magda <[email protected]> said:

    > On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:34:50 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, Jeremy Henderson
    > <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    >
    >
    > ... Yes, I did - but why should I take the loss? Is it "whining" to
    > expect ... things you pay money for to fulfil their function? I sure
    > wish I was a ... shopkeeper in your town "Here comes that fool Sjoerd.
    > Let's rip him off ... again - he's too dumb to open his mouth to
    > complain"
    >
    > What do you do to destroy shoes so fast ?

You haven't seen my feet :-)

    > If you didn't have shoes, would your feet be destroyed by now ?

That might be a good thing. The smell would be better, anyway.

J;