In article , Jerry
Johnson writes
    > Actually, I have always found the UK to be more flag conscience than here
    >in the US. A trait to which I will tip my hat.


You are absolutely wrong.
--
Marie Lewis

On 8 Feb 2003 12:46:31 -0800, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected] (Jerry Johnson)
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

(By the way, France,
... next time you are on your own).

There *IS* a god !!...

base of operations ............ command and control .................
logistics ..............



"Charles Hawtrey" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Mika wrote:
    > >
    > > Go Fig schrieb:
    > >
    > >>Hopefully there to tell them the U.S. is shutting down Ramstein and
    > >>taking the billions eslewhere.
    > >
    > >
    > > Unlikely, as it is in the US interest to be there.
    > Why? This isn't 1946, or even 1989. I can't imagine why it's in the US
    > interest to station troops in a country that is obviously no threat, has
    > no foreseeable enemies ranged against it, and has the means to defend
    > itself. The US has to get out of the mentality of being the world's
    > security guard.
    > > And the Germans are paying stationing costs. Good luck in convincing
Poland to pony up a few
    > > hundred million for the privilege of having US bases there.
    > "A few hundred million" is less than the cost of a single modern bomber
    > or submarine. It's doubtful this tiny amount of funding could be a
    > serious consideration in deciding where to base troops.

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > hobart xaxinojo wrote:
    > >
    > > i disagree. tourist locales are prime targets for terrorists. if you
go to
    > > europe on vacation you usually end up in the bigger cities like paris.
    > > there is a danger. there have been bombings in the past. there have
been
    > > shootings in the past. in the US you can go many places and, in my
opinion,
    > > have less to worry about. the danger, i believe, is not an angry mob in
    > > oslo. it is a terrorist attack against a place where foreigners,
    > > particularly americans, congregate.
    > Which would hold equally true for "tourist attractions" we might visit
    > in our own country. So maybe we should all vacation in our own back
    > yards (gardens) and hope our home town has not been selected as a random
    > target? Terrorists thrive on disrupting "normal", civilized life - the
    > only way to combat that is to refuse to be intimidated.

Not the only way.

As the British found out the hard way, terrorism can be controlled by
removing the reasons for people to sympathise with the offenders, and to
keep people talking at all costs. That, lots of time and patience to allow
wounds to heal.

I can see precisely nothing in the forthcoming war that will reduce the
possiblility of future attacks on the west. But I am in a democratic
country, so apparently my opinion doesn't mean anything anymore.
---
DFM

Deep Floyd Mars wrote:
    >
    > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...

    > > target? Terrorists thrive on disrupting "normal", civilized life - the
    > > only way to combat that is to refuse to be intimidated.
    > >
    >
    > Not the only way.
    >
    > As the British found out the hard way, terrorism can be controlled by
    > removing the reasons for people to sympathise with the offenders, and to
    > keep people talking at all costs. That, lots of time and patience to allow
    > wounds to heal.

Well, yes, of course, but the post to which I was replying was not
suggesting reasonable solutions.

    >
    > I can see precisely nothing in the forthcoming war that will reduce the
    > possiblility of future attacks on the west. But I am in a democratic
    > country, so apparently my opinion doesn't mean anything anymore.

I think quite a few of us feel that way . (And some of us on this
side of the pond are beginning to wonder whether we ARE still in a
"democratic" country.)

Jerry Johnson wrote:
    > Actually, I have always found the UK to be more flag conscience than here
    > in the US. A trait to which I will tip my hat.

I don't get this. In the abstract, what is good about being flag-conscious?

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

"Marie Lewis" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article ,
    > "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
    > >Well, I admit that, after the events of 11 September, I joined with a
    > >great many Americans across the country in displaying a flag on my car's
    > >radio antenna. I
    > The only time I have seen such things in the UK was during the last
    > World Cup (soccer.)

Yes we're not big on flag flying. Always seems a bit "heart on sleeve" to
us!

In article ,
"Mike O'Sullivan" wrote:

    > "Marie Lewis" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > In article ,
    > > "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
    > > >Well, I admit that, after the events of 11 September, I joined with a
    > > >great many Americans across the country in displaying a flag on my car's
    > > >radio antenna. I
    > > The only time I have seen such things in the UK was during the last
    > > World Cup (soccer.)
    >
    > Yes we're not big on flag flying. Always seems a bit "heart on sleeve" to
    > us!
    >
    >

I think the PM of Italy said last week what many people think; 'when I
see the U.S. flag I not only on see a proud nations flag, but a symbol
to all of the world of freedom'. He went on to say that it was the U.S.
that gave his country it's freedom back.

jay
Sun, Feb 9, 2003
mailto:[email protected]

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Yes he did.
Of course people can be grateful for somethings...that has nothing to do
with flag waving!
It's good to be proud, but over-proud : NO !
I mentioned ex-communist flag waving, just before the land of million flags
was nazi Germany...and they certainly were proud of their country!
And just what is a flag?
Just a symbol! It could depict a red nosed reindeer or a mickey mouse with
red stars around it...A sort of logo that's supposed to mean things to a
community, but doesn't mean a thing to the others.
So we let people who enjoy putting them everywhere do it, and people who
don't use that as a sign of recognition not to do it.
OK...We stop now?

"Go Fig" a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
    > In article ,
    > "Mike O'Sullivan" wrote:
    > > "Marie Lewis" wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > In article ,
    > > > "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
    > > > >Well, I admit that, after the events of 11 September, I joined with a
    > > > >great many Americans across the country in displaying a flag on my
car's
    > > > >radio antenna. I
    > > > The only time I have seen such things in the UK was during the last
    > > > World Cup (soccer.)
    > >
    > > Yes we're not big on flag flying. Always seems a bit "heart on sleeve"
to
    > > us!
    > >
    > >
    > I think the PM of Italy said last week what many people think; 'when I
    > see the U.S. flag I not only on see a proud nations flag, but a symbol
    > to all of the world of freedom'. He went on to say that it was the U.S.
    > that gave his country it's freedom back.
    > jay
    > Sun, Feb 9, 2003
    > mailto:[email protected]
    > --
    > Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
    > Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Quite right

"David Gascon" a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
    > Runge wrote:
    > >
    > > Well yeah you certainly don't deserve to go to France!
    > > It's not your colony and as you like history never forget they helped
the US
    > > get free from british rule
    > > I've seen 2 places in the world where people hang flags all over the
place :
    > > Ex-communist countries and the US.
    > > That makes me feel uneasy.
    > > I wonder what happens to the guy who doesn't hang his flag all over the
    > > place...I rather enjoy Xmas trees better than flags.
    > >
    > Mike appears to be just another of those poor souls who identify the
    > legitimate interests of the US & its people with the machinations of the
    > Bush administration. The French government, while taking exception with
    > the latter, has done nothing against the former.
    > > "Mike O'Sullivan" a écrit dans le message de
    > > news: [email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > "Jerry Johnson" wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > I am interested in the groups' take on this----we recently
returned
    > > from
    > > > > > France, and although treated well, could clearly sense the growing
    > > > > > anti-American position on Iraq, and didn't enjoy having to hear
it,
    > > > > > defend our country, avoid the discussion or agree with them.
    > > > > > Anyways.....
    > > > >
    > > > > Which is why we altered our family spring vacation plans from
France
    > > to
    > > > > the UK. And although we have had many more trips to the UK than to
    > > > France,
    > > > > our vacation dollars will not be going to France anytime soon. I
    > > believe
    > > > that
    > > > > the current attitude of the French is the recognition that, aside
from
    > > an
    > > > > underserving seat on the UN Security Council, the country no longer
    > > > influences
    > > > > world affairs. Like the kid who says that you have to play by my
rules,
    > > > or I
    > > > > will take my baseball and go home. France wishes to direct a game
in
    > > > which
    > > > > it will not play.
    > > >
    > > > France has never forgiven America or liberating their country. As has
been
    > > > said, no good deed remains un-punished.
    > > >
    > > >

Poor jerry you treat blood spilling as a trade and "payments".
And England is certainly not as mad as you....AND their flag is nicer to
look at than yours!
But it's not all over the place, no sir! Except during the 70's campaign
"i'm backing Britain" to help the country get out of the economic crisis.
You still see it in football stadiums and on T shirts, though
About the trash you want to remove, well most of it has been supported by
your fellow flag conscious country...remember the Talibans during soviet
occupation?
Have you succeeded in removing the north vietnamese "trash"?
What about North Korea, why didn't you remove it in the first place?
Why do you support oil rich countries and such a shame when your soldiers
fled from Somalia!
How about China? Nice country to live in,eh?
Are you going to attack the 3/4 of the world?
You are being manipulated by free world propaganda and you are a poor little
thing that doesn't always know what he's talking about.
But you sure need to express yourself, I suggest a lil more sport? I mean
more than flag hanging !
My guess is you're too old for that now and you just eat your peanuts in
front of the TV...
Have an nice end of life.


"Jerry Johnson" a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
    > > Well yeah you certainly don't deserve to go to France!
    > > It's not your colony and as you like history never forget they helped
    > > the US get free from british rule
    > As early as our grade school, ages 5-12, we learn about Lafayette and the
    > French fleet at Yorktown. Although in the current politically left bias
and
    > political correctness in US education, I'm not sure if that is still the
    > situation. And during WWI, Captain Rickenbacker's squadron was, in fact,
    > named "Lafayette Escadrille". After two world wars in which more American
    > and UK blood was spilled on French soil that that of its' own 'Army', I
would
    > say we paid back Lafayette more that several times over. (By the way,
France,
    > next time you are on your own).
    > > I've seen 2 places in the world where people hang flags all over the
place :
    > > Ex-communist countries and the US.
    > > That makes me feel uneasy.
    > > I wonder what happens to the guy who doesn't hang his flag all over
    > > the place...I rather enjoy Xmas trees better than flags.
    > Actually, I have always found the UK to be more flag conscience than here
    > in the US. A trait to which I will tip my hat.
    > And I don't believe that the current circumstances is something akin to a
    > 'Pax Americanus'. Rather, it's time to remove the trash which should have
    > been taken out years ago. And after Saddam it's time to send North Korea
    > Kim into early and mandatory retirement. Don't think that despot won't
sell
    > a nuke to the first terrorist which waves enough cash in his face.
    > The United Nations can either decide to make a difference, or rename
itself
    > the League of Nations.

On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 20:26:39 -0000, in rec.travel.europe, "Mike O'Sullivan"
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

...
... France has never forgiven America or liberating their country. As has been
... said, no good deed remains un-punished.


If I had saved a friend's life and then spent the next 10, 20 or 60 years reminding him,
at every opportunity, how much he owed me, I would *not* wonder why he would hate/despise
me and never lift a finger to help me.

======
Where are we going to and why are we in a handbasket ?

On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 05:08:56 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:

    >Jerry Johnson wrote:
    >> Actually, I have always found the UK to be more flag conscience than here
    >> in the US. A trait to which I will tip my hat.
    >I don't get this. In the abstract, what is good about being flag-conscious?

It helps alleviate global poverty by providing a market in textiles
one of the few commodities that the poorer countries can sell.

Jim.

You got the point
Maybe UK and Russia took also a part in all that?

"Magda" a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
    > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 20:26:39 -0000, in rec.travel.europe, "Mike O'Sullivan"
    > arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this :
    > ...
    > ... France has never forgiven America or liberating their country. As has
been
    > ... said, no good deed remains un-punished.
    > If I had saved a friend's life and then spent the next 10, 20 or 60 years
reminding him,
    > at every opportunity, how much he owed me, I would *not* wonder why he
would hate/despise
    > me and never lift a finger to help me.
    > ======
    > Where are we going to and why are we in a handbasket ?

    >I don't get this. In the abstract, what is good about being flag-conscious?

The United States is a diverse country populated with people from different
ethnic backgrounds and different religious/philosophical traditions. The flag
is one of the few things that we all share in common. I see nothing wrong with
displaying one's national flag.