kiwi_child

This is one of the things I will be looking at when I head to NZ in March for a couple of months. The labour party when in gov in NZ in late 80s started to screw the people and it has continued it would. I need to assess the current situation, but regardless, OZ is heading down the same path now with potentially huge wage cuts and conditions not only looming but already happening here. UK is looking decidedly attractive it would seem.

SecretSquirrel

well im here

southerner

small countries on the other side of the world from their major markets will always struggle to pay top wages. Perhaps what is so surprising is that Australia seems to been a high wage country for so long.

Maybe sitting on the best minerals in the world, and with a decent climate to attract more expats, thats what makes the difference.

sky

It's not always been like that though has it Southerner, NZ had some very good prosperous times so I have been led to understand. I get told lots by the older folk here that things were a lot better not so many years ago.
We have a mate here who came over with his new partner and he settled on his block given to him by his parents and was thinking he could carry on breeding dogs (like he'd done in the uk) for farm work but he says that the whole attitude here has become a lot more mercenary and hard hearted since he last was here fifteen yrs ago.
They're off back to the uk soon.

southerner

Sky,
NZ was for much of the post war period one of the richest per capita countries in the world. The country was really good at producing what people wanted and what they were prepared to pay handsomely for (meat and dairy products).

The UK joining the EEC in 1972 changed all that, tarrifs and quotas were introduced and the oil shock and some poor government spelled the end of the golden years. It was only after some serious restructuring of the economy (mainly farming) in the 80s, and targeting of alternative markets and product development, that NZ has started to reclimb the OECD tables in recent years.

"More mercenary and hard hearted...." it probably is, my experience would probably say it has had to become more like that, the days when your country owes you a living have long gone. Like everywhere, the gap between the haves and have nots seems to keep increasing, but I think there is still plenty of compassion in NZ on the whole.

BEVS

Yes Southerner.
It is hats off to New Zealand for coming back from that UK Common market 'Yes' vote all those decades ago.
I can quite see why many of the older Kiwis felt they had been abandoned by the UK & looked to the east.
Given its small population I think New Zealand has done well. One has to admire its grit.

Y'know, I didn't vote Yes for entry into the common market and have yet to meet any UK person that admits to doing so.

southerner

Who knows, it maybe turned out for the best. Would be interesting to see whether NZ would send men into battle for the UK if a European war was to break out now.

kiwi_child

The problems with low wages in relation to cost of living has developed in NZ (and now OZ) due to embracing economic rationalism and globalisation. These policies did not need to be implemented but pollies were sucked into Reaganomics/Thatcherism.

OZ always waits to see what happens in NZ before it adopts simialr policies.

The fact is things could be improved by the reintroduction of tariffs etc. Both countries lost industries such as footwear, textile and clothing that employed many many people. And what did we get for it? Cheap shoddy crap from asia that falls apart after a few washes.

I never made heaps in NZ (was working in retail or manufacturing ), but I got by okay. Stimulating the economy by driving down wages as NZ and now OZ are doing simply creates a great working underclass.

Only today I read that the property rises that are preventing/making it harder for people to get ont he housing ladder is largely due to the continual drive to artifically hold inflation down to low single figures. OZ, NZ and UK have among the worst housing affordability in the world.

I'm not advocating mass inflation, but moderate inflation (say 10-15%) never prevented people maintaining a decent standard of living in the past. It's only when it creeps up past that that it becomes a real issue.

People decry taxes, but yet scream there's poor health, education and other services etc. Where do they think govt gets the money to fund these things?

Privatisation only works when there is genuine competition and affordability across all income brackets, and then only to a degree.

As for small countries, Denmark has done well yet maintained healthy social justice and welfare policies. Even when the US threatened to bankrupt it if it didn't play the game. And the US is the most protective tariff ridden nation of all when it coems to protecting its domestic markets yet in the same breathe tries to force all other countries to adopt this globalisation crap.

kiwi_child

Yeh, How's thing going for you guys back there? What's the jobs, housing and cost/standard of living areas like?

I know you r just relishing those sausages At least in NZ and UK you can get decent chow chow/picalilli unlike in OZ where its all 'sweet mustard pickles' (makes ya want to puke, all sugar and no bite )

Kippers

I'm afraid NZ was sold a pup over market reforms.
We pride ourselves on our subsidy-free production but still face an up-hill struggle to compete with protectionist markets in Europe, US and Asia etc.

Small countries like NZ will never get a fair go against larger economies who have the ability to out-muscle us in all areas and in all negotiations.

Globalisation sure produced cheap products in the Warehouse but did little for wages. That's why we have slipped down the scale. The promise that we should abandon our manufacturing to asian countries and concentrate on "what we do best" was a big con job to line the pockets of wealthy investors as assets were sold off.

NZ businesses are still being gobbled up (and closed down) by leveraged take-overs by overseas investment funds, using borrowed money! The result is we all end up working for others and watch as the profits we make are enjoyed by others.

And just as in Britain where the super-rich (eg Branson) pay no tax, the manipulation of the world-wide monetary system by the powerful bleeds the poor, and relatively poor countries of their wealth.

example:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/busin...994976,00.html



Kip

kiwi_child

Top post. karma on its way

Dirk1971

but isn't NZ the best place in the world?

mumomonty

Yes we noted that too! What is more, lemon meringue pies were not tart - they were sickly sweet! Urgh!

uk+kiwi

Hmm, I'm interested as to what makes you think this is the case? Obviously such people are likely to be asset rich and not cash rich, thus using the tax laws to their advantage, but highly unlikely to pay no tax at all.

Would be lovely!

eeagles

uk+kiwi, I agree, Richard Branson (apparently...) invest profits from one venture into the next, and the next — which reduces his tax bill. He has offshore trusts that allow him to avoid paying capital-gains tax on sales of his assets if he reinvests the proceeds. He also gives a lot to charity.

But to state what is now blatantly obvious, rich ppl can well afford to employ specialised teams of top accountants, financial analysts / investors, etc., to play money games to reduce their tax bill, and a lot of them do. They just work a system that seems to allow what they do to continue. While regular people remain ignorant of the knowledge and exerience of such money game playing (because they're not well off enough to do it), research and documentaries presenting the facts become lost / yesterdays news, because no-one is informed enough to make a huge enough fuss, unlike they can with health, education, crime, etc., which most people have knowledge and experience of... so most govt policies presented to the public relate to those things. etc., etc.

Now to re-focus on positive things.... off for a walk - it's lovely outside.