jennifer45

I gave up, what would have been a very lucrative career in law, when I became pregnant with my first child. I felt it just wasn't compatable with raising a family. I stayed at home until my first child started school because I wanted to be with my children as much as I could be and was quite content with my old washer/cooker/suite/TV. They worked fine, just like me.Extra money which we desperately needed was earned by 'party plan' and private tuition.
When I opted for a new career path which would fit in with school holidays- there was only one choice- Education. 4years later both children were now in school-I chose part time-mornings only.This was fine as I was a specialist teacher and my courses only ran in a morning.
Not until they reached upper school age did I take on extra responsibilities and begin to work full time.
None of what I have achieved could have been done without the help and support of my other half. Regards salaries, some male colleagues having greater responsibility, earned more than me but then I earned more than a lot of male colleagues, who had less responsibility.
I say that I was lucky- not to get to raise a family and have a career. but to have a husband who supported my efforts and stepped in when ever he could.
The men of past generations put up with a lot of injustices. My husband was not allowed to leave his night shift on the night our first son was born-even though we both nearly died. He wasn't entitled to paternity leave but took his annual holiday instead.
I am not saying everything was rosy in the 60s just that I preferred motherhood in the early 70's than to today.
I had a very ambitious female colleague, who had literally mapped her life out into stages where she would achieve each of her goals.
A Levels/ Degree/ career/ promotion and Engaged by 24/
further promotion by26/
further promotion and marriage by 28/
deputy headship by 30/
Headship by 34 followed by children.
When asked why children came last in her goals- "nothing else left to achieve".
BB
It's marvellous that you are going to Uni next year- You will have a ball.
All of a sudden you become a REAL PERSON. I'm sure your husband and the rest of your family will support you and be so proud of your achievements.
Even at my age I envy your journey!
Jennie

newkiwi

Remember 2 -3 years ago Paul Holmes, well known NZ presenter and at the time the highest paid TV personality in NZ opened his breakfast show by saying "Have you heard what Kofi Anan has been up to overnight, been a bit of a cheeky darkie hasnt he?" ..... To be fair he did get some stick for it but still....

Kiwiprincess

The cheeky darkie commment was an interesting one though. I am no fan of the speaking gnome but even I thought he very deliberately used that expression. It was a deliberate ploy to get people to consider how that wasn't an acceptable way of referring to peole. I really doubt that he genuinely would have thought of him as a 'darkie'.

Like I said, Paul Holmes irritates the hell out of me. But I do think the use of that word was very very deliberate.

Cape Blue

I'm pleased you posted - this thread looked like it was going the way of women chaining themselves to the kitchen sink Looks like it will be another generation before some women value equality over a door being opened for them.

However I don't agree with the comment about women not getting equal pay (in the UK) - if numbers are corrected for age, qualifications, work sector and duration in sector then I believe they are.

Frequently reports compare, for example a 35 yr old woman with a 35yr old man in the same job - but do not take into account that typically the woman has not worked as many years due to child rearing (far higher percent of women take time off for birth and early years than men) and has less years of work exp.

Or they compare a degree qualified woman with a degree qualified man - but not with the same degree and women historically have chosen subjects that do not pay as well as those the men have chosen.

Or they compare jobs which aren't really comparable - i.e. male coal miner with female cleaner.

Or they do not take into account that frequently women are more balanced and manage their work:life balance better - great for their sanity but not as good for the company as the blokes who work 60+ hrs pw (at least in the short-term, and short-term seems to be the way).

I think you'll find that in a direct comparison women are paid the same (within a margin if error tolerance).

pascalr

Yep, ok...sure it was deliberate.

Not sure who Mr. Holmes is but I think he's the one with the lovely, smart and intelligent daughter, correct?

How could a doof like him not naturally make a comment like that???

Back to PC. Heard a chap on national radio talking today about a serious incident to which his final words were 'shut happens.' This was at 8.30am.
My friends youngest was in the car with us, I was dumbfounded

bourbon-biscuit

I think that's the point!!! Women bear the brunt of the early childcare that cripples their career and pay prospects- why should that be so for the majority? The stats that make that comparison show that it is still women who make that sacrifice is the huge majority and there is no reason for that to be so.

As an aside, I've no idea whether it was representative but in NZ I knew three families where the female was the wage earner and the male was the SAH parent for years. I envied those kids at times- men and children also suffer from historical rigid roles. Men have so much to offer kids and families beyond a wage and the bath and bed routine.

luvwelly

You beat me to it..this is the first weird un pc thing I noticed...golliwog dolls on sale in Kirks in Wellington and elsewhere iu.
At the moment there is also a strange exhibition on in Lower Hutt at the New Dowse (council owned I think) of a display of rag dolls which all have uniform black features and curly hair and the artist is/was a middleaged white guy...maybe it is totally cool and PC but I couldn't be bothered to stay and look..it felt creepy like the golliwogs in Kirks. http://www.dowse.org.nz/en/Exhibitio...mily-Occasion/
Yes and I grew up with the Robertsons jam badges/pot golliwog figures etc but it was my Grandma who saved the labels for me from the jam jars not my PC parents!

jennifer45

Spare a thought for all the men chained to the kitchen sink!
Dare I dare to say that some men are actually better at some things than women and visa versa! My son's and my husband are fantastic cooks- early training works wonders-
As for equality or having a gentleman; man; lad; boy
open a door for me -I would choose both any day- and get it.
No-one says we have to have children. It really isn't a pre-requisite of 'success'. If the thought of everything children bring to a mother or father's life is viewed as an incumbrance, a nuisance, something to tolerate or endure, then for goodness sake opt out! They really don't belong on a list of acquisitions or achievements.
Until men can be altered so that they carry and deliver babies, then women just have to accept the 'burden' of motherhood and all the terrible injustices and career path suspension or changes it inevitably brings.
There are plenty of men out there who do more than a full days work and come home to face a full evening of baby/toddler chores and nighttime calming.
I sometimes think that my generation has created some moddle-coddled demanding women, who site child minding/rearing as the most tiresome, stressful, demanding, unfulfilling JOB in the world and woe betide the poor man who dares to complain about his lot!
Ah- that's nice!
Hubby has just arrived with my first drink of the evening on a tray with some nibbles.
He's prepared the evening meal and asks when I would like it.
Depends how many of you begin to attack me!
jennie

jmh

No one's going to attack you Jennifer - we just grew up at different times with different values. It doesn't mean one is better than the other, we all have a valid point of view.



I don't think it is the fact that the doll is black that makes it racist. It is the use of the term 'golliwog' as a racist insult that has led people feel uncomfortable about black dolls that look like the Enid Blyton character of that name. Black dolls are often found in countries where there is a dark skinned native population. It would be questionable if the only dolls permitted were of the fair skinned variety. I think the discomfort over the 'golliwog' is particularly British, but I am happy be corrected on this.

jennifer45

Thanks,
one thing I have learnt over the past few years is to consider very carefully how 'what one says' might be interpreted. My dear mother used to say the one thing that she enjoyed about growing old, was being able to be totally honest and speak one's mind and people accepted that it was all due to 'age'!
I am relieved that you realise that different generations see things differently.
I know there are lots of injustices and inequalities in today's world and I do admire the steps taken to adjust them.
I'm amidst the injustices perpetrated on your senior citizens at the mo, so I guess we all have a cross to bear.[please don't read christian connotations into that last sentence.]
I am experiencing genuine injustice at the mo. For my Green credentials!
I sold my beautiful 1.8is MX5!
The one thing I really, really miss is my own car! Independence!
Also it was an absolute gem! but insurance, tax and cost of laying her up 6 months of the year + imminent emigration, meant she had to go, especially when offered 1500 above list price!
I missssssssssssss!
I hate sharing a CAR!
Never shared a bank account never shared a car!
My own car was a sign of total independence!
A car was far more important than equal pay in the 60's.
You were able to take yourself home!!!

Hokey-pokey

I heard that too on NZ National Radio. Totally unprofessional.

luvwelly

No black dolls are absolutely fine - I had a gorgeous one in the 1960s and she had a really pretty face, I loved her..it is the distortion of the image that is the problem I think...under Ofsted rules nurseries have to have dolls from other ethnicities and quite right too (but not distorted versions like golliwogs).
You are maybe right to some extent, in the Netherlands, their version of Father Christmas 'Sinterklaas' often comes in for intense criticism from expats....Sinterklaas a red- robed white Bishop type figure is accompanied by 'Zwarte Piet' (Black Peter) and white Dutch people black their faces and put on afro wigs and red lipstick and parade in the street handing out sweets to kids. Don't think Obama would be too impressed if he visited Holland at that time of year!

bourbon-biscuit

I bought my daughter a black doll (and an asian one)- but not white ones with black skin, black dolls with black features bought from an online supplier to schools and nursery care etc. We lived in quite a white area and we purposely bought books and toys that reflected a more varied ethnic mix, just the way we are I suppose, but why wouldn't you? It must be weird for kids from non-white backgrounds living in UK, NZ etc and to see all white dolls in shops and white characters on TV and in books (although I think the latter two are improving).

Anyway, I was horrified beyond belief when a Kiwi guy told me he wouldn't let his little son play with my daughters black doll- and the little boy was clearly really interested and brought it through to the lounge to show his dad. Really upset me for ages that scene.

bourbon-biscuit

With the greatest of respect Jennifer I think you miss the point. I would never swap having had my children, nor for that matter having stayed at home with them for ten years but I do think society could be better organised to enable women to have children AND careers. I think you are coming from the perspective of children being the sole responsibility of parents, but I see children and child rearing (essentially making the citizens of tomorrow's society) as also a collective responsibility. It's unrealistic to essentially say to women that they put up with the status quo (and if they're "lucky" enough to land an accommodating partner then that can include a compromised career!) or don't have children!

Geelong Gent

I agree bourbon.

Things have also changed which means wider society needs to be more accountable for future generations.
- Longer working hours, including higher stress levels during those hours
- More knowledge has brought withit more expectations of the next generation and unfair stress put on parents too cope with said expectations.
- "User pays" is now forcing families into 2 income homes - I say this versus families deciding to be 2 income for luxury purposes ie holidays, clothes, toys etc.
- Dwindling extended family networks - where the mothers/fathers could rely on their parents (the grandparents) and other siblings (uncles/aunts).