MartinC

Hi everyone, I have just discovered this board and thought I would introduce myself and talk about my feelings towards Oz and the UK.

I am 36, married with one child (2) and another due in October. My wife and I have been in Perth (Joondalup) since Nov 2002. We have a 2 bed flat in SE London which we are renting (I am so glad we did not sell it). We bought a 4-bed house in Joondalup for $350K last Nov, 10 mins walk from train station. I work in IT in the city, wife works as part-time secretary and kid goes to daycare 5 days a week.

Sounds idyllic? Well, how come I am not happy? It is strange, we came to Perth for the usual wooly reasons, like "better quality of life" and "better for kids". But honestly, I am not sure that the quality of life is better here for me.

I find the suburbs to be soulless and depressing. The landscape (bush) looks identical wherever you go. I miss the variety of Britain. The hills, mountains, lakes, fields, valleys. I miss the chance to go to Barcelona, Paris, Rome and all the other great European cities.

I miss the culture and history of Britain. I like old buildings. I like the great radio and TV programmes in Britain. Try and find a radio station in Perth that doesn't sound like "Smashy and Nicey".

I miss proper pubs. I never thought I'd say that, but I really do.

Barbies are overrated. Public ones are covered in crap so you need to spend 10 mins cleaning it before using it. I would rather be indoors in the cool than standing sweating round a BBQ.

As for the "laid back lifestyle" myth - baloney. My hours are 8:15 to 5:15, a 40-hours week. In UK it was 35 hours. The work is just as stressful. Deadlines have to be met like anywhere else. Why should Oz be more "laid back"? I also took a pay cut to come here, but on Oz wages things aren't cheaper, including houses.

I honestly think I was having a better time living in London, especially as I find lying on beaches boring!

I also don't buy the argument that Perth is better for kids. I know plenty of kids who spend all day indoors because it is too hot to play outside in the summer. I don't see why kids can't have a great time in the UK. It's up to the parents to ensure that they do!

I feel that Perth also has other problems. The work environment is nepotistic and racism rears it's head in the attitudes of co-workers and the increase in racist graffiti. Aborigines are treated like scum. Isolation breeds intolerance and ignorance.

Oh yes, and taxes are much higher than the UK!

Anyway, what I will probably end up doing is staying until my two years are up so I can get an Ozzie passport and dual citizenship. My wife insists on this. After that I will have to try and persuade her to come back to the UK.

Thanks for listening. Do you have any comments on my feelings?

Martin

Don

Welcome to reality, why did you ever imagine it would be different to what you post?

You don't actually say much about your FEELINGS so how exactly do you feel about all this?

Not very long to go for 2 years, anyway.

Would a 'better' part of Australia (Perth seems an odd choice to me given you can go anywhere) been any different?

dotty

Yes for gawds sake dont post them on the living in OZ forum, doing so has endangered many a life


Seriously you have only found what so many before you found, the bit that worried me was you and the wife dont quite agree on it? Always a nightmare.

What about a differnt part of OZ, east side has more employment, well Syd melb bris anyway, might cost a few more thousand but at least you would come back more sure if it was not for you.

I always liked Melbourne but it had so many of the same problems as the UK I guess you would really have to check it out for yourself.

Herman

Your views about Oz mirror my personal feelings after we had been there a few years, and we were living in Sydney. Its certainly not the best place for everyone and as someone who, like you, finds beaches pretty boring and sweating unappealing I certainly prefer life in the UK. Fortunately for me my wife felt the same things, but more so.
We came back to London a year ago. Probably the best consolation you can have is that you are not a freak for feeling like this, plenty do. I don't have any problem with telling people who have never been to Oz and think its paradise that its not for everyone. The latest incident for me was just this week in fact. I had tonsilitis and went to the doctors. He was asking me for previous addresses and when he discovered I had been in Sydney for 3 years he asked me all about it as emigrating had crossed his mind before now. He then started chellenging me fairly aggressively on why I came back and before I knew it I was trying to justify my decision to a total stranger who had never been to Australia in his life. His arguments were pretty standard "its got to be better than the UK - people have big houses, pools, a laid back lifestyle and the climate is great" and he inisisted on trying to get me to admit that "leaving was difficult" and kept on saying "you must have at least seriously considered staying for good" etc. The debate made him late for his next appointment and I left him in a somewhat puzzled state of mind.

MikeStanton

If you're a religious man, drop to your knees and thank God that you didn't sell your flat in SE London! That was a very wise move.

As far as your views on Perth and Oz are concerned, you get a big 'ditto' from us. As dotty indicates, Sydney and Melb are better...a bit. They are not as parochial as Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane etc.

As you've seen for yourself, there is so much rubbish talked about Oz (eg along the lines of "it makes heaven look second-rate" - to continue the religious theme) This is not aimed at you, but I understand why aborigines refer to the Dreaming - that's just what too many people do before they go to Oz.

It is worth hanging out for citizenship, if only to keep your wife happy.

Hang on in there! I hope you can get your wife to see sense.

And concentrate on other really important things. Like cheering England on against France

dotty

We had a Doctor out to my Dad at 4am, he sorted out the medical emergency then stayed 35 minutes to challenge my views on climate, job opportunites, ie rural would be best cause there is a doctor on every city corner because you pay for everything medical, beachside housing costs he simply would not believe a house with a beach view could quite easily be between 2 and 10 million, then he found it totally hard to believe stuff like food was the same price or more, or that airfares could be double for the same thing from the UK, by the time he got on to trying to convince ME that airconditiong was standard we almost had to push him out the door in case the next emergency dropped dead while he was debating with me in my jamies.

I get challenged almost daily but coming from a Doctor it was hard to believe that someone so intelligent/educated could also fall for the entire OZ spin thing.


I'm getting so sick of it now I would love to host a quiz show take 10 brits ask them their opinion on say what Perth or Brisbane etc would be like, ask them questions, like house price, wages, temp in summer, temp in winter, food prices, dental costs, klms needed to drive each week etc etc etc then get them answered by an someone actually living in OZ.

Can you see it, picture of beachside mansion in Sydney, nice harbour view, me how much, contestant 250,000 dollars me wrong again! correct answer is 7 million.

Show a piccy of glue sniffers on the gold coast but give them a clue by putting a surfboard next to the glue.

Smiling blonde freckled kid, with braces - how much.

See if they can name the 23 shot dead Melbourne underworld gangsters.

We could add some props too put real wild koala in pen, enter fellow brit for a cuddle, see how long contestant goes without being ripped to death by koala claws and teeth.

Prizes could be aus themed, suped up magna for your 16 year old, matching nylon spf 2000 outfits for the entire family, 3 bbq's a weekend for the next 10 years Or aus's version of a new car a 15 year old camray.

My next enterprise wonder if the beeb is up for it.:scared:

Edited for animal activists I totally respect wild koalas and no way would I really put one in with a OZ struck brit .

HiddenPaw

I think it's 28 now

CPW

Love it or hate it, Perth is extraordinarily isolated - a truism, I know, but true nonetheless. As others have hinted, you might find Sydney or Melbourne more to your liking - they are more in the 'real world', there is more going on there and, in Sydney in particular, there is a sense of being in a place that is somehow significant. Although Sydney has a beach culture (Melbourne not so much), plenty of people in Sydney would never go near a beach, except perhaps to walk along one on a cool sunny winter's morning, and there are plenty of other things going on there. (Maybe worth considering if you and your wife can't agree on where to go if you move from Perth!)

I'd say it's definitely worth waiting to apply for your citizenship - and make sure that you do the same for your (soon to be two) children - the one yet to be born might be Australian by birth, of course. They might well thank you for that in the future! There's nothing to be lost.

Anyway, if you do return to the UK to live, you can at least say that you gave this a good go - if you hadn't, you might have spent the rest of your life wondering if you should have. Whatever happens, you'll probably find that your life has been enriched by the experience - even negative experiences, or not wholly positive ones, can have their benefits later.

PS: I have always thought that eating out of doors is a greatly over-rated past-time!

mr mover

Why , do you want an Aussie passport , Martin ??. SO when the muslims, make life so unbearable in europe and the UK, with their bombings , and unpredictable killings, you have some were to flee............... MM

MartinC

Thanks for all your replies, many valid points raised.

CPW - good point about the soon-to-be-born. He will be born in Oz, that makes him an Oz citizen. I wonder if he is a British citizen as well, considering we (his family) are all British citizens? I must do more research

Moving elsewhere in Oz. I would consider it. The thing is that my in-laws live in Perth and it is handy to have them around to help with the kids, but I guess that shouldn't hold us back from moving on!

So true. The secret is not to pretend you are having a great time, but to realise when you aren't, and doing something about it.

Mr Mover - very crass statement my friend. I am from Northern Ireland and know all too well about bombs and shootings, believe me. I don't intend to "flee" anywhere. Getting a dual passport is simply commonsense considering I only have to wait another 6 months. It means that my kids have the opportunity to come to Oz when they are older, and who knows, they may like it! And yes, it means my wife and I keep our options open. And there's nothing wrong with that.

angelica

Hi Martin, you are very brave to write what you really think about Perth/Oz, I wish more people would so that those who are in the same situation dont feel so isolated.

Trust your instincts & do what is right for you, its your life so dont be unhappy with it, make things happen!!

CPW

Your child soon to be born in Australia will be British by descent, assuming that either you or your wife are British otherwise than by descent (i.e. one of you either was born in the UK or is a naturalised UK citizen). As long as you are permanent residents of Australia, the child born in Australia will be Australian by birth. (Not sure that you will be citizens by the time of the birth?) Therefore, the child is likely to be a dual national from birth - both British by descent and Australian. (Don't forget about naturalising your first child, though - therein would lie the possibility of future sibling disharmony!)

MikeStanton

Mr Mover,

You may like to spend some of your next 22 years looking up the word 'apostrophe'.

If you think that Oz is relatively isolated from terrorism, epecially the extreme Islamic kind, you're living in a fool's paradise.

Is your memory so short that you have forgotten the horrors of the Bali bombing - sometimes referred to as "Australia's September 11th" - where Aussies were deliberately targeted?

And Australia's nearest neighbour - Indonesia - just off the north coast of Oz has a population of 200 million - who are mainly Muslim.

JAJ

What's posted below is completely correct. Child will be an Australian citizen by birth. For information on British citizenship for non-UK born children visit:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/default.asp?PageId=38

and download leaflet BN4. This gives a fairly good overview of the law, except it doesn't mention the registration options for children of British fathers who are not married to (non-British) mothers. It doesn't sound like that applies in this case.

Martin - staying to get citizenship is a good idea. I know of a number of cases where families have abandoned their PR and gone back to the UK, with one of their children having been born in Australia (and hence Australian). One day they may have to explain to their other children why they've not got the same freedom to go back to Australia as their sibling has.

You need to stay settled in Australia until you're sworn in - you can freely change your mind after that. Your older child needs to be added to one of your citizenship applications.

Before you finally decide to go back, you may want to consider somewhere like Melbourne that may be more to your liking. Australian citizens can also live freely in New Zealand.

As your Australia born child's birth certificate won't be proof of citizenship, you may want to spend AUD55 and fill out form 119 (from the DIMIA site) to get a Certificate of evidence of Australian citizenship for him or her, as well as an Australian passport.

Jeremy

MartinC

Thanks Jeremy, that's very helpful.

Martin