Alternatively, you can go back to the UK, where gas is just shy of being on par with solid gold, and your idea of 'urban living buzz' involves exploding transit systems. We got enough whiners born here, no need to import new ones.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure no one's idea of 'urban living buzz' includes being involved in a horrific act of terrorism. What an insensitive thing to say!

Chris

[QUOTE=iaink]An unnecessarily racist sentiment in my opinion. If you are smart enough to get a good degree, you are smart enough to learn at least one more language. After all, how hard can it be, even the most uneducated among us were able to learn at least one language at some point.

Iaink - Thanks for the comments and I know 'in your opinion' you think this has a racist tone, but it certainly wasnt meant that way. It just seems from my extensive reading of the immigration sectrion of the board, a great deal of the applicants who have degrees to obtain entry through the far east, do not hold sufficient grasp of correct English....it's one of my needle points even with colleagues at work, but there you go ! It was an observation, pure and simple, and as you insist on putting on the end of your sentences.... "in my opinion".

Anyway, keep those posts coming Iaink and I withdraw that comment as a gesture of goodwill ( frustration I guess ). As an old advert used to say ... it's good to talk !

I agree Tom. Please keep the posts respectful and to the point. This should be a healthy discussion.

Quite. I am considering leaving the UK, and I am trying to evaluate between Canada and Australia. I am lucky enough to qualify for entry to both, but in a way this makes the choice so frustrating.

The one thing that keeps coming up again and again on the Canada threads is this business about scarce jobs and trouble with foreign qualifications. There isn't too much of this on the Aussie threads, I have to say. This in my opinion is the main factor in moving abroad - especially if that move is intended to be permanent. I want to know I can get work when I arrive in my new country, and not face months of drifting about like something out of a Steinbeck book.

Things like the price of chocolate bars or cabbages or petrol or how many nightclubs there are to go to just shouldn't be a consideration. But good job... this is important stuff. On this score, Canada seems less secure than the UK.

I wonder what line of work these people who struggle so much on arrvial in Canada are in?

T.

This is a very important issue. It took my husband 7 months to find a job. We live in London Ontario with a population of about 350 000 so we didn't think it would take him that long to find a reasonable job. He is a chartered accountant with 20 years experience (including international experience). He has to sit an exam to be recognised as 'chartered' over here so that isn't too bad. Eventually he got his job through a contact of our neighbour!

I am a primary teacher and have a Master's degree and international experience. I have not yet found a job. About 500 teachers apply for most of the teaching jobs around here. I will have to sit some sort of assessment when my professional body (the Ontario College of Teachers) decide what that will be! Apart from that though, my qualifications have been recognised. One teacher friend was telling me that 70% of the teaching jobs here are not advertised - they mostly go to friends of friends.

We intend to settle here in Canada, but the first year was tough regarding jobs and the feeling of being a second class citizen! I am now optimistic that I will find a decent job - probably through one of my friends - not based on my qualifications.

We like Canada despite it's faults (ultra beaurocratic) but we would not have done anything to live here. We were not prepared to give up our professions/careers for the sake of living here. Obviously if you can find work here before you come over it will make a world of difference. It is difficult to do but can be done.

Chris

Hi, I'm from NS and living in Toronto, and I find good reason to hate it. I call it the "can't do city" as it seems impossible to get anything done without running into a barrage of obstacles. One example - my husband tried to go to our local job centre to get tips on resumes and interviewing and any help they might offer in finding employment. Was told that branch didn't deal with immigrants (keep in mind he wasn't looking specifically for immigrant programs, just regular job search assistance), and was sent to another branch. Arrived there and was told he has to be tested so they could provide him with skills-specific help, and was given an appointment 2 weeks away. Went to that and had to go back later to an appointment with an employment counsellor who had previously been away for several weeks (in Toronto no one seems to get replacements or additional help when people go on vacation for weeks at a time). Was told they had a course for him but it was only offered a few times each year and the next was filled - could he call back in 3-4 months' time and see if they can fit him into the next course? At this point he gave up.

This is only one example, but I have seen similar situations time and again here. The thing that makes it intolerable is that Toronto has spent so long calling itself "world class" and convincing itself it is the most fantastic place on earth, that no one is able to see any of the faults and correct them, which would move the city towards its goal of "world classness." Add to that the fact that most native-born Torontonians have the most naive, uninformed psyche I have encountered and seem utterly unable to conceive of the world outside their city and province.

And yes, many people find Toronto boring. It has no character in and of itself. It has a lot of individual communities with their own characters, but as a whole does not have a cohesive personality, if cities can be said to have them.

OK, rant over!

Hi Chris

The phrase "second class citizen" has popped up one or two times on the Canada thread too. I must say I expected none of this (2nd class citizen, scarce jobs, massive amount of red-tape) before I started to research Canada.

Another thing that concerns me - and something I have seen innumerable times on these threads is Canada's predilection for nepotism in the employment market. Of course this sort of thing goes on all over the world, but it's mentioned so often on the Canada threads that it seems to be an accepted modus operandi for Canadian employers. Hardly immigrant -friendly.

Our Australian researches have come up a little more positive. There appears to be no similar problem with employment, the waiting list is three times shorter, there is a special provision for newly-arrived immigrants and many other benefits. Plus they get twice as much annual leave and plenty of sunshine.

Canada was our first choice (we have family there in two provinces), but some of the stuff on here - the jobs stuff - is making us think twice.

I think some people are finding Australia easier than maybe Canada is that the Australian Government also wants skilled labour at the moment so are trying to make things as attractive as possible.

With regard to some people made to feel like second class citizens you will find many who are also entering the UK workforce from other countries are also going through this unpleasant process of having their qualifications verified etc. So UK can seem just as beaucratic to many from overseas as well. I think until we emigrate none of realise how some who come to UK must feel as well in a system we are all used to. The fun of emigrating. LOL.

I think the 36+ month waiting list for a prospective Canadian Federal Skilled Worker is also part of the problem. Making the decision to settle in another country permanently is tough enough without having to forecast whether or not it will be the right thing for you so far away in the future. Who can honestly say how they will feel about something so momentous in so many years' time?

I think a lot of people underestimate how difficult it can be to find work in Canada. Being an immigrant is not great for your self-esteem. Australia certainly appealed to us in many ways. We chose Canada in the end because we quite liked the idea of having a snowy winter as well as hot summers and it isn't as far away as Australia! Ideally I would have a go at living in them both, but I don't think this would go down too well with the hubbie and kids - they are fed up of moving!!

I agree that 36 months is a huge amount of time to wait but you have to be fairly sure you are doing the right thing (don't know if you can ever be 100%) and be unbelievably patient!!

Good luck with whichever country you decide upon.

Chris

Thats true, often our needs also change. I also looked at Canada before I went to Australia and have looked at it since. But the cold put me off LOL. I think every country has it pluses and minuses, and until we live in a place we dont' always know what to what extent they will be. Some places I haven't liked intially but then as I get settled, get work, make friends etc my perspective changes. But nothing is worse than waiting for work and watching savings dwindle and the fear whether you will get work or not and if you have enough to return to your home country if you can't. When I went to Australia I got sponsored and someone I had met introduced me to an immigration advice person and that helped me quite a bit, especially how to get around certain rules. I had to wait 2 years before I knew for sure whether I had residency or not and anytime during that time they could have kicked me out. So everything I had was temporary, ie car, accomodation etc. Even the job was based on results so had I not done well that could also have jepodised my application. It was a very stressful time.

I must agree. Toronto is often described as 'Multicultural' but the fact is, as you state, it is far from it!

Keep telling yourself that something is so, and eventually, you will believe it. Wake up Toronto's 'truely multicultural pushers', your living in a land of make believe. Would be marvellous it it was so, but it;s not...and doubt it ever will be.

Rant over too

Would you like a list?

1) No character whatsoever, it's just a 'generic' North American city with a few boxy skyscrapers surrounded by a vast suburban sprawl. Crap compared to places like Halifax, Montreal & Ottawa.
2) People here think Toronto is the centre of the universe.
3) The air quality is terrible.
4) Torontonians are rude and stuck up.
5) It's supposedly 'multi-cultural' accept all the 'cultures' live in their own areas and seemingly want nothing to do with eachother. London is far more integrated than this place.
6) People here think Toronto is the best city in the world but most have never been anywhere else.
7) Much of the city is horrendously ugly.
8) It's mind numbingly boring.
9) Torontonians have a big downer on every other part of Canada, especially the maritimers and 'Newfies' who they slag off for being welfare scroungers.
10) Most people here are dull business types who have a no sense of humour whatsoever.
11) The traffic here is dreadful.

In short, Toronto is a city with a highly overinflated opinion of itself. It's a sow's ear that masquerades as a silk purse.

Can't imagine why anyone with such a poor opinion of the place would ever select it as a destination.

Perhaps the opinion was formed after he arrived in Toronto.