Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
Aug 27th 2005 | 5:02 am
#16
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Posts: 903
From: Rochdale, then Toronto, then Preston now Tampa, Florida.
Re: Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
Originally Posted by JoolsG
Ok, I think we fit this bill! We have been here for just over 12 months now and are returning to the UK as soon as we can sell our house.
So, what are some of the reasons we are returning/regretting leaving the UK? Obviously some of these could be province related, some are just down to us and what are expectations are or were. Everyone is different and what will bother one person won't bother someone else and vice versa:
1. You know that you will miss your family and good friends but the reality of it can be far harder than anything you can even begin to imagine. We have young children and rationalised that hey, we will be able to chat over the webcam, they can see their grandparents, their grandparents can see them, it'll be fine, no problems. That's not the reality, no matter how good the connection or how great a camera you have, conversations are stilted at best. Children lose interest and get easily bored trying to chat. We have realised more and more that we want our children to have a relationship with their grandparents, not for them to be some face they see on a television screen.
Fair comment, I moved to Canada to get away from family so can't really imagine mising them!
2. Things are far more expensive here than we imagined they would be. Don't even get my DH started on car insurance! I personally find food very expensive and from talking to others I know I'm not alone in this. My husband earns a pretty good salary but we are still struggling to make ends meet each month, we don't have an extravagent lifestyle. I think we are guilty before moving out of converting the cost of items from canadian dollars to pounds and thinking it's all really cheap. However, that only works if you are earning the equivalent in C$ as you were in pounds, not many immigrants can expect to earn anywhere near that in Canada. Also all prices are quoted exclusive of taxes not something you necessarily realise until you move here.
Car insurance...wait till you get home!!!!
You convert dollars to pounds for 2-3 years, when you get back to the UK you will do the reverse for at least 12 months.
I found cost of living on a par with UK, if you stay long enough you will find out where to go to get the best deals. fuel is a lot cheaper in Canada, plus houses, plus cars, these are your three biggest outgoings, so you either get bigger for the same money, or get cheaper items and save, you say you live on three acres and have a big house...look at this and wonder why your skint.
3. Travel in and around Canada is prohibitively expensive, whereas this isn't a problem in the UK and getting to europe is relatively inexpensive and pretty easy.
Dont understand where your coming from on this as its very cheap to fly to the US, Mexico and the Islands.
4. Trying to get anything done is such an uphill struggle. We recently were looking in to having some decking put in at the back of the house. We asked around the area, friends, neighbours, to which we were told it will probably be a task in itself just getting someone out to do a quote! We eventually did get someone (only 1 mind you!) who then told us we would need the equivalent of planning permission to build a small, ground level deck at the back of our house. The red tape here is something else. There seems to be very little cross over of duties. For example when we first moved in to our house we bought a new oven, from Sears, it took almost 10 days to get it up and connected. We couldn't connect it ourselves as it would invalidate our house insurance. The guy who came out to connect it could only deal with the gas connection and it turns out that there was some problem with the electric socket but he was not allowed to touch this, someone else had to come out and sort that problem out. Unbelievable, I'm not sure if this is a knock-on effect of the "sue-em" attitude from America, which could explain the high cost of insurance?
This type of thing could happen anywhere in the world, it seems to you your using every little setback to justify to yourself you dont like the country...which is normal, and fine.
These are just some of the reasons, there are more I could mention, perhaps we've just had some bad experiences? Perhaps it's just that Nova Scotia is not for us? We've made the decision to move back and it's been a big relief.
What will I miss? The space we have here, our house is set on 3 acres on a lake, we would never be able to have that in England. Friends we've made here, one of which I know will always be in my life. But for us we know it's right to move back. We had to do this, we had to give it a go, if not we would always have been wondering...
So, what are some of the reasons we are returning/regretting leaving the UK? Obviously some of these could be province related, some are just down to us and what are expectations are or were. Everyone is different and what will bother one person won't bother someone else and vice versa:
1. You know that you will miss your family and good friends but the reality of it can be far harder than anything you can even begin to imagine. We have young children and rationalised that hey, we will be able to chat over the webcam, they can see their grandparents, their grandparents can see them, it'll be fine, no problems. That's not the reality, no matter how good the connection or how great a camera you have, conversations are stilted at best. Children lose interest and get easily bored trying to chat. We have realised more and more that we want our children to have a relationship with their grandparents, not for them to be some face they see on a television screen.
Fair comment, I moved to Canada to get away from family so can't really imagine mising them!
2. Things are far more expensive here than we imagined they would be. Don't even get my DH started on car insurance! I personally find food very expensive and from talking to others I know I'm not alone in this. My husband earns a pretty good salary but we are still struggling to make ends meet each month, we don't have an extravagent lifestyle. I think we are guilty before moving out of converting the cost of items from canadian dollars to pounds and thinking it's all really cheap. However, that only works if you are earning the equivalent in C$ as you were in pounds, not many immigrants can expect to earn anywhere near that in Canada. Also all prices are quoted exclusive of taxes not something you necessarily realise until you move here.
Car insurance...wait till you get home!!!!
You convert dollars to pounds for 2-3 years, when you get back to the UK you will do the reverse for at least 12 months.
I found cost of living on a par with UK, if you stay long enough you will find out where to go to get the best deals. fuel is a lot cheaper in Canada, plus houses, plus cars, these are your three biggest outgoings, so you either get bigger for the same money, or get cheaper items and save, you say you live on three acres and have a big house...look at this and wonder why your skint.
3. Travel in and around Canada is prohibitively expensive, whereas this isn't a problem in the UK and getting to europe is relatively inexpensive and pretty easy.
Dont understand where your coming from on this as its very cheap to fly to the US, Mexico and the Islands.
4. Trying to get anything done is such an uphill struggle. We recently were looking in to having some decking put in at the back of the house. We asked around the area, friends, neighbours, to which we were told it will probably be a task in itself just getting someone out to do a quote! We eventually did get someone (only 1 mind you!) who then told us we would need the equivalent of planning permission to build a small, ground level deck at the back of our house. The red tape here is something else. There seems to be very little cross over of duties. For example when we first moved in to our house we bought a new oven, from Sears, it took almost 10 days to get it up and connected. We couldn't connect it ourselves as it would invalidate our house insurance. The guy who came out to connect it could only deal with the gas connection and it turns out that there was some problem with the electric socket but he was not allowed to touch this, someone else had to come out and sort that problem out. Unbelievable, I'm not sure if this is a knock-on effect of the "sue-em" attitude from America, which could explain the high cost of insurance?
This type of thing could happen anywhere in the world, it seems to you your using every little setback to justify to yourself you dont like the country...which is normal, and fine.
These are just some of the reasons, there are more I could mention, perhaps we've just had some bad experiences? Perhaps it's just that Nova Scotia is not for us? We've made the decision to move back and it's been a big relief.
What will I miss? The space we have here, our house is set on 3 acres on a lake, we would never be able to have that in England. Friends we've made here, one of which I know will always be in my life. But for us we know it's right to move back. We had to do this, we had to give it a go, if not we would always have been wondering...
Sorry but just had to comment.
Aug 28th 2005 | 5:50 am
#17
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 557
From: Toronto
Re: Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
Originally Posted by Tangram
Would love to hear your views, I know all the positives ( otherwise we wouldnt be looking at it ) but would like to get a balanced view altogether.
There are some good points to living here, the streets are safer and Canada isn't afflicted by a huge underclass, not yet anyway.
However there are lots of bad points and for me, these outweigh the good things.
The job market here is total rubbish as I've said many times before. Employers are highly protectionist and the attitude to foreign experience borders on absurd.
It's also very boring, the TV/radio etc. is complete tripe and most towns and cities here are charmless to say the least.
Toronto has almost 5 million people, but has no edge whatsoever. It feels just like a vast overgrown suburb.
I find the 'strip mall' characteristic of many towns here very depressing. Especially when you compare it to the Victorian arcades and grand buildings in British cities.
In short, if you enjoy architecture, history, the buzz of urban living and are seeking challenging employment, you will hate Canada.
If you like the suburban lifestyle and a peaceful, uneventful life you will probably love it.
Aug 28th 2005 | 6:23 am
#18
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Posts: 2,062
From: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
Originally Posted by seacreature
In short, if you enjoy architecture, history, the buzz of urban living and are seeking challenging employment, you will hate Canada.
If you like the suburban lifestyle and a peaceful, uneventful life you will probably love it.
If you like the suburban lifestyle and a peaceful, uneventful life you will probably love it.
Maybe you should rephrase it from "Hate Canada" to "Hate Toronto".
Aug 28th 2005 | 6:35 am
#19
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Re: Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
Originally Posted by seacreature
In short, if you enjoy architecture, history, the buzz of urban living and are seeking challenging employment, you will hate Canada.
If you like the suburban lifestyle and a peaceful, uneventful life you will probably love it.
If you like the suburban lifestyle and a peaceful, uneventful life you will probably love it.
Sorry seacreature, I've seen lots of your posts being so negative about Canada and I do understand where you're coming from, especially re: the job situation and attitudes towards foreign credentials and experience. But please do not overgeneralise by saying that they will hate all of Canada and that there is no architecture, history and so on in this country. Okay, so maybe you find Toronto soulless, unfriendly and boring, and that wouldn't be the first time I've heard it being described so. That doesn't mean the rest of Canada is like that. Try coming to Montreal, it is full of all of the above, old buildings (especially churches) right next to skyscrapers and if someone can't find a buzz here, they must be braindead.
Remya's Canadian Anchor, aka Significant Other, adds;
Seacreature, you're in Toronto. Contrary to most Torontonians' opinion, this city isn't the whole of Canada. It's actually the funnel channeling Americans into the country, and I'm afraid they've left their mark as they rampaged through. If by uneventful, you mean that there's an actual delay between the football-originating riots, then you're right. And if you find Toronto itself to be uneventful, you just haven't visited the right places in it. Granted, when on a budget, the GTA is about the worst place to be. You'd be better off in Quebec City, if you can make yourself clear in French at least once in a while, or downgrade the History and Architecture to the still impressive Montreal if you'd rather stick to Shakespeare's.
Alternatively, you can go back to the UK, where gas is just shy of being on par with solid gold, and your idea of 'urban living buzz' involves exploding transit systems. We got enough whiners born here, no need to import new ones.
Aug 28th 2005 | 6:43 am
#20
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From: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
Originally Posted by Remya
You'd be better off in Quebec City, if you can make yourself clear in French at least once in a while, or downgrade the History and Architecture to the still impressive Montreal if you'd rather stick to Shakespeare's.
Alternatively, you can go back to the UK, where gas is just shy of being on par with solid gold, and your idea of 'urban living buzz' involves exploding transit systems. We got enough whiners born here, no need to import new ones.
Alternatively, you can go back to the UK, where gas is just shy of being on par with solid gold, and your idea of 'urban living buzz' involves exploding transit systems. We got enough whiners born here, no need to import new ones.
Many people living in the UK probably don't appreciate the architecture, history and buzz. They just take it for granted.
Aug 28th 2005 | 8:28 am
#21
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Toronto
Re: Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
I realise Montreal is probably much better than Toronto, but that isn't much of a help since my French is very poor, hence it's highly unlikely I'd be able to land a job in Quebec.
As for football riots etc. I think that's very unfair and is rather typical of the sort of Britain-bashing that happens on this forum.
Sure there is a scum element in Britain, however there are lots of very friendly people there too. We're not all shaven headed football hooligans.
In fact, in terms of friendliness, England is no different than Canada. Go to rural North Yorkshire and people are extremely friendly and will happily chat to strangers and say hello as you pass.
Rural people are friendlier in general whichever country you're in.
Likewise, the larger the city, the colder and less friendly the people and that's no different in Canada.
As for football riots etc. I think that's very unfair and is rather typical of the sort of Britain-bashing that happens on this forum.
Sure there is a scum element in Britain, however there are lots of very friendly people there too. We're not all shaven headed football hooligans.
In fact, in terms of friendliness, England is no different than Canada. Go to rural North Yorkshire and people are extremely friendly and will happily chat to strangers and say hello as you pass.
Rural people are friendlier in general whichever country you're in.
Likewise, the larger the city, the colder and less friendly the people and that's no different in Canada.
Originally Posted by Remya
Sorry seacreature, I've seen lots of your posts being so negative about Canada and I do understand where you're coming from, especially re: the job situation and attitudes towards foreign credentials and experience. But please do not overgeneralise by saying that they will hate all of Canada and that there is no architecture, history and so on in this country. Okay, so maybe you find Toronto soulless, unfriendly and boring, and that wouldn't be the first time I've heard it being described so. That doesn't mean the rest of Canada is like that. Try coming to Montreal, it is full of all of the above, old buildings (especially churches) right next to skyscrapers and if someone can't find a buzz here, they must be braindead.
Remya's Canadian Anchor, aka Significant Other, adds;
Seacreature, you're in Toronto. Contrary to most Torontonians' opinion, this city isn't the whole of Canada. It's actually the funnel channeling Americans into the country, and I'm afraid they've left their mark as they rampaged through. If by uneventful, you mean that there's an actual delay between the football-originating riots, then you're right. And if you find Toronto itself to be uneventful, you just haven't visited the right places in it. Granted, when on a budget, the GTA is about the worst place to be. You'd be better off in Quebec City, if you can make yourself clear in French at least once in a while, or downgrade the History and Architecture to the still impressive Montreal if you'd rather stick to Shakespeare's.
Alternatively, you can go back to the UK, where gas is just shy of being on par with solid gold, and your idea of 'urban living buzz' involves exploding transit systems. We got enough whiners born here, no need to import new ones.
Remya's Canadian Anchor, aka Significant Other, adds;
Seacreature, you're in Toronto. Contrary to most Torontonians' opinion, this city isn't the whole of Canada. It's actually the funnel channeling Americans into the country, and I'm afraid they've left their mark as they rampaged through. If by uneventful, you mean that there's an actual delay between the football-originating riots, then you're right. And if you find Toronto itself to be uneventful, you just haven't visited the right places in it. Granted, when on a budget, the GTA is about the worst place to be. You'd be better off in Quebec City, if you can make yourself clear in French at least once in a while, or downgrade the History and Architecture to the still impressive Montreal if you'd rather stick to Shakespeare's.
Alternatively, you can go back to the UK, where gas is just shy of being on par with solid gold, and your idea of 'urban living buzz' involves exploding transit systems. We got enough whiners born here, no need to import new ones.
Aug 28th 2005 | 11:00 am
#22
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Posts: 2,466
From: Formally Scotland. Now Bay of Quinte...Ontario
Re: Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
Originally Posted by flashman
Maybe you should rephrase it from "Hate Canada" to "Hate Toronto".
Aug 28th 2005 | 11:08 am
#23
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From: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
Originally Posted by macadian
Agreed! Have said it before and will say it again. Toronto is not Canada...as Dublin is not Ireland...etc. Spent first 6 months in Canada living in Toronto out of necessity and am now in eastern Ontario. No comparison...I love it here but would not contempalete returning to Toronto...It's big, its noisy, anonymous and not very comfortable to be in. At least that's how I perceive it. Then again, I dislike cities.
Using an experience in one city to describe a whole country is simplistic and misleading generalisation.
Last edited by flashman; Aug 28th 2005 at 11:19 am.
Aug 28th 2005 | 11:24 am
#24
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Re: Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
What's with the Toronto bashing!!??? Why does the rest of Canada have such a problem with Toronto and Torontonians?
Personally I have never had a problem getting a job in Canada/Toronto, despite my English/foreign qualifications. Infact most employers seem very interested in the fact that I'm British, seems to almost work in my favour! I work in a fairly big office (70 people) and I'd say about 1/3 are expats from somewhere in the world, so apparently it's not that difficult to get a job with "foreign" qualifications!
If you come to Canada to watch the T.V and listen to the radio then I think that's pretty sad! If anything the crap T.V encourages me to enjoy the outdoors and discover what a great, yes GREAT city Toronto is!
How on earth anyone can find living in Toronto boring I don't know, it's a very diverse place with tons going on. Admittedly the architecture is very modern, it's a relatively new city compared to European cities. What do you expect? this is North America after all, not Italy!
Seacreature, you're attitude is the problem, you just like to blame everything else. Once you adjust the attitude I'm sure things will work out for you.
Personally I have never had a problem getting a job in Canada/Toronto, despite my English/foreign qualifications. Infact most employers seem very interested in the fact that I'm British, seems to almost work in my favour! I work in a fairly big office (70 people) and I'd say about 1/3 are expats from somewhere in the world, so apparently it's not that difficult to get a job with "foreign" qualifications!
If you come to Canada to watch the T.V and listen to the radio then I think that's pretty sad! If anything the crap T.V encourages me to enjoy the outdoors and discover what a great, yes GREAT city Toronto is!
How on earth anyone can find living in Toronto boring I don't know, it's a very diverse place with tons going on. Admittedly the architecture is very modern, it's a relatively new city compared to European cities. What do you expect? this is North America after all, not Italy!
Seacreature, you're attitude is the problem, you just like to blame everything else. Once you adjust the attitude I'm sure things will work out for you.
Aug 28th 2005 | 11:30 am
#25
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,466
From: Formally Scotland. Now Bay of Quinte...Ontario
Re: Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
Originally Posted by Interested
What's with the Toronto bashing!!??? Why does the rest of Canada have such a problem with Toronto and Torontonians?
Personally I have never had a problem getting a job in Canada/Toronto, despite my English/foreign qualifications. Infact most employers seem very interested in the fact that I'm British, seems to almost work in my favour! I work in a fairly big office (70 people) and I'd say about 1/3 are expats from somewhere in the world, so apparently it's not that difficult to get a job with "foreign" qualifications!
If you come to Canada to watch the T.V and listen to the radio then I think that's pretty sad! If anything the crap T.V encourages me to enjoy the outdoors and discover what a great, yes GREAT city Toronto is!
How on earth anyone can find living in Toronto boring I don't know, it's a very diverse place with tons going on. Admittedly the architecture is very modern, it's a relatively new city compared to European cities. What do you expect? this is North America after all, not Italy!
Seacreature, you're attitude is the problem, you just like to blame everything else. Once you adjust the attitude I'm sure things will work out for you.
Personally I have never had a problem getting a job in Canada/Toronto, despite my English/foreign qualifications. Infact most employers seem very interested in the fact that I'm British, seems to almost work in my favour! I work in a fairly big office (70 people) and I'd say about 1/3 are expats from somewhere in the world, so apparently it's not that difficult to get a job with "foreign" qualifications!
If you come to Canada to watch the T.V and listen to the radio then I think that's pretty sad! If anything the crap T.V encourages me to enjoy the outdoors and discover what a great, yes GREAT city Toronto is!
How on earth anyone can find living in Toronto boring I don't know, it's a very diverse place with tons going on. Admittedly the architecture is very modern, it's a relatively new city compared to European cities. What do you expect? this is North America after all, not Italy!
Seacreature, you're attitude is the problem, you just like to blame everything else. Once you adjust the attitude I'm sure things will work out for you.
You can keep it! 
You are enyoying Toronto...and thats what counts!
Aug 28th 2005 | 1:21 pm
#26
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 557
From: Toronto
Re: Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
Originally Posted by Interested
What's with the Toronto bashing!!??? Why does the rest of Canada have such a problem with Toronto and Torontonians?
Personally I have never had a problem getting a job in Canada/Toronto, despite my English/foreign qualifications. Infact most employers seem very interested in the fact that I'm British, seems to almost work in my favour! I work in a fairly big office (70 people) and I'd say about 1/3 are expats from somewhere in the world, so apparently it's not that difficult to get a job with "foreign" qualifications!
If you come to Canada to watch the T.V and listen to the radio then I think that's pretty sad! If anything the crap T.V encourages me to enjoy the outdoors and discover what a great, yes GREAT city Toronto is!
How on earth anyone can find living in Toronto boring I don't know, it's a very diverse place with tons going on. Admittedly the architecture is very modern, it's a relatively new city compared to European cities. What do you expect? this is North America after all, not Italy!
Seacreature, you're attitude is the problem, you just like to blame everything else. Once you adjust the attitude I'm sure things will work out for you.
Personally I have never had a problem getting a job in Canada/Toronto, despite my English/foreign qualifications. Infact most employers seem very interested in the fact that I'm British, seems to almost work in my favour! I work in a fairly big office (70 people) and I'd say about 1/3 are expats from somewhere in the world, so apparently it's not that difficult to get a job with "foreign" qualifications!
If you come to Canada to watch the T.V and listen to the radio then I think that's pretty sad! If anything the crap T.V encourages me to enjoy the outdoors and discover what a great, yes GREAT city Toronto is!
How on earth anyone can find living in Toronto boring I don't know, it's a very diverse place with tons going on. Admittedly the architecture is very modern, it's a relatively new city compared to European cities. What do you expect? this is North America after all, not Italy!
Seacreature, you're attitude is the problem, you just like to blame everything else. Once you adjust the attitude I'm sure things will work out for you.
There is good reason why most Canadians despise the place, it's horrid.
Aug 28th 2005 | 2:56 pm
#27
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Re: Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
Originally Posted by seacreature
I was warned many times from friends in Nova Scotia about Toronto, frankly I should have listened to them!
There is good reason why most Canadians despise the place, it's horrid.
There is good reason why most Canadians despise the place, it's horrid.
I guess the anti Toronto thing is the same thing you find anywhere in the world! The rest of England hates London and the South East, the rest of France hates Paris etc etc.......
Have your friends in Nova Scotia ever lived in Toronto? Please, do tell me what these reasons are to hate Toronto?
Aug 28th 2005 | 8:01 pm
#28
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Joined: May 2005
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From: Rochdale, then Toronto, then Preston now Tampa, Florida.
Re: Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
Originally Posted by seacreature
I was warned many times from friends in Nova Scotia about Toronto, frankly I should have listened to them!
There is good reason why most Canadians despise the place, it's horrid.
There is good reason why most Canadians despise the place, it's horrid.
In your opinion????
Aug 28th 2005 | 11:09 pm
#29
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,309
From: Fredericton, New Brunswick CA
Re: Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
I'm glad this thread is promoting healthy debate. Thats what we want, not big arguments, just opinions.... and obviously anything any individual says is " their opinion"....it really couldnt be anyone elses unless they are "quoting" them. Thats a gimme !! ( like saying 4 am in the morning ... superfluous ).
Thanks for all the posts - keep 'em coming.
PS Its nice to get them from people who can string a sentence together. Seems a lot the successful applicants on the immigration boards can't do this in correct English, although their degrees seems toi get them in....
in .... my .... opinion
Thanks for all the posts - keep 'em coming.
PS Its nice to get them from people who can string a sentence together. Seems a lot the successful applicants on the immigration boards can't do this in correct English, although their degrees seems toi get them in....
in .... my .... opinion
Aug 29th 2005 | 10:10 am
#30
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,771
From: Upstate South Carolina
Re: Returning from or Regretting going to Canada
Originally Posted by Tangram
PS Its nice to get them from people who can string a sentence together. Seems a lot the successful applicants on the immigration boards can't do this in correct English, although their degrees seems toi get them in....
in .... my .... opinion
Its easy to jump to conclusions, maybe Seacreature is sticking it out because of family considerations like a lot of other unhappy expats. Its never as simple as it seems in my opinion.
