Mistake

Oh, yes, aren't they? Loevly, I mean. I'd forgotten – it's ages since I lived with a kitten. I could easily become a my-kitten bore. He is a for adortable, b for brilliant, bliss and Best, c for charming, d for delightful, e for etc. I was afraid he wouldn't even survive, he was so so skinny and sad and dirty and at first I had to feed him water and Rescue Remedy witha dropper and he cried if he wasn't touching my bare skin and all cuddled up, but by yesterday he was a normal, happy, confident kitten. I'm luckly, because I was the person who rescued me (unintentional but apt slip of the fingers – we rescued each other) so he likes me a lot and looks to me for reassurance, guidance, food, cuddles and play. he's sort of cream-coloured witha hint of ginger ancestry... he's lying on his abck, with his enormous, round tummy speading out and his enormous, round eyes gazing at me and his little paws folded.. I'm besotted.

Baytril is a FQ and lots fo vet medecines are.

Mistake

[QUOTE=Easterndawn;8645051] I'm sorry to do this, Easterndawn, and it's not my custom, but I'm not going to reply to you any more, unless you have some objective point to make. You seem to want to reduce this thread to a quarrel about personalities or individuals, or merit and fault, as well as to generalisations, all of which, in my opinion, are misplaced and worse than useless. Of course, there may be otehrs who feel they can communicate successfully and usefully with you, but I ceratinly can't and shan't try any more.

Mistake

P.S. In fact, a lot of people say that acupuncture helped wit the pain - not with other things, but with pain. i may try it, but had two encounters with acunpuncurists in teh apst and Aaaargh! i found it really aggressive and invasive. hated it. But a lot of people swear by it, for lots of things.

Easterndawn

[QUOTE=Mistake;8645094] Oh, please do not appolgise, I disagree with you on my trying to reduce this to a quarrel about personalities, I am just giving you my opinion and giving light to the other side of the coin. Again good luck in your quest.

scrubbedexpat097

[QUOTE=Mistake;8644843]
Chill out dude.

I didn't miss the point and I have read all your threads and to me they seem a little bit biased against doctors and drug companies in general.

I agree about medication effects (I'm living with the consequences re: my husband) but as I stated there are a lot of the drugs you call "bad" that are life lines for some people.

Not sure about your rambling on about me taking quinolines.....but actually I have taken them and have lived to tell the tale


BTW, we are all entitled to our own opinions you know, this is a DISCUSSION board...

Easterndawn

Mistake, I know you still wil be reading this thread even though you have made the decision to not comment on my contributions and that is okay. I just wanted to say that I am glad you found the kitten, I think he chose a person who truly loves animals and I think he is a very lucky little cat. Animals can help heal not only the mind, body but also the soul, so please enjoy each other.

Mistake

[QUOTE=Sugarmooma;8645173] I don't know why two of you feel the need to be so rude and unpleasant and I must admit that, for the first time, I'm starting tio feel a bit sorry for myself. i think manamama was right, about having some compassion - real compassion, which doesn't mean you shouyldn't discuss or argue, but does mean trying to walk even six incheas in another man's shoes, rather than depsising him for not having better shoes, like you. However, I think empathy and compassion are rare qualities nowadays and perhaps you can't choose to develop them - I don't know.

What bothers me, though, and what leads to my feeling sorry for msyelf, isn't the little, subtly inserted snideries or unpleasant turns of phrase - I can easily ignore those - what is getting me down is screaming ruddy frustration, because you both keep arguing against things I haven't written (or ever even thought!) and ignoring things I have written and not following any ,lñinks I give to illustrate or explain - yet you call it a discussion! What are we discussing, in your opinion? Because you cerftainly aren't and haven't been discussing any of the same things I have!

I'm trying to prepare a report for the Ministry, a website in French and Spansih, thingas like that. All of that is hard enough and tiring enough, in my bunk in this hot, windowless van, but it would help a lot of people - people who need and want it. If I have to keepo arguing with two people, just two people, who apparently can't even read, understand or use English properly, let alone separate in their minds two or more entirely different entities or conceopts (quinolones vs other meds, life-saving vs often used, doctors vs drug companies, are a few examples) then I can't do the much more impratant things. Much, much more imporattant. just answering the two of you this morning has finished me for the day - I feel like hell, physically, and it won't diminish unless I rest completely for hours and do manage to sleep - and by then it'll be eevning. And boy, does iot depress me, trying to talk to people who either don't know how to think logically or discuss informedly, or aren't capable of it, or can't be bothered - people who refuse to enquire, learn or think.

that's why I'm not going to bother. I made information available. If you want to look at it, do. If you dont want to, don't. If you want to discuss it, why not do so? (You haven't so far.) If you want to do whatever it is you're doing, which you imagine to be discussion, go ahead. But don't aim iot at me - for start, that isn't discussinga subject, it's aiming at a person, shrieking, “You're wrong,” instead of, “I disagree,” and secondly, it's not interesting or useful. And if you dow ant to do that - what you call discussing - well, why not? It's an open forum and you're free to express your opinions, but don't keep aiming them at me - it's a subject of global importance, not particular to me (it's in your tap water, probably.) Or you could chat together about how wrong Mistake is, but refer to her in the 3rd person, rather than aiming ity in such a way that i jhave to waste time answeribng. And don't expect me to ruin yet another day - this one's kaput and it was a day of my, er, half-life - in order to satisfy your need to have a quarrel a day online - find someone else.

Englishmum

Well it looks like the UK Govt. is likely to soon be closing a loophole where British expats (many living in Spain) are receiving Incapacity Benefits:

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/182036

scrubbedexpat097

[QUOTE=Mistake;8645981]

I also think you should read other posts as well before you comment.


I have a husband that until a year ago was super fit and healthy and could do just about anything. Then he had an accident, seemingly not too bad to start with. He had surgery, then a bad infection from the surgery and was then given medication for the pain and the infection that gave him life threatening Pancreatitis. Pancreatitis is not a very good diagnosis to be given, it will be an ongoing thing for the rest of his life. It was caused by medication but if he had not been treated with the medication he probably would have had half his leg and foot amputated....possibly more. So what were we supposed to do refuse emergency treatment because we don't know the side effects?

I'm sorry you are in the position you are in and I hope you make it back to the UK and seek more adequate medical attention, but you shouldn't wash your hands completley to pain management and medication. There are alot of medicines out there that can help you. You need to talk to a medical professional that is interested in helping you and it seems the only way you will find that is returning to the Uk.

Also no-one was quarreling with you, just giving opinions and alternative ideas/suggestions.

Mistake

Why I have been trying to get back to Britain
(as well as because one would prefer to die at home.)

As people are kindly taking the trouble to suggest various things such as sheltered housing, NHS care, holistic therapies and having someone to talk to and hear me, I think I'd better clarify:

I would rather die in a ditch than go into sheltered housing, let alone a nursing home. I've always said that and don't feel any differently now this has suddenly been imposed on me.
I can't live independently, or not without deliveries and someone to lift heavy objects and so on. With such things, I could manage for a while, but very, very soon I'd be into the broken-hip, hosputal-infection, rotting-old-person syndrome and you never escape after that.
That isn't living. It isn't being alive. I loved life and living, eevn though I had a tragic life. I do not love this half-life existence, with the prospect of continuing deterioration.
I always said that, if I ever had any condition for hwich I were offered chemotherapy, I would refuse, absolutely. They gave me chemotherapy, wityhout asking me or telling me, and for nothing. It's too late top refuse and stop it happening, but ii can refuse to support the consequences, by simply leaving. They can't touch me once I'm a just a spirit..
I was very fond of my body. It wasn't glamorously beautiful, but it was a jolly good body, did me proud, and I loved it. This thing that has been put in its place makes me feel sick. I refuse to stay in it.
I'm not een slightly afraid of death, of dying, or of being dead. I know perfectly well that it'll only be release and that we just come here for a while and then go home – and that is even more home than any earthly land. I've always known that. So why be afraid? It's this modern, slow, rottuing away, stuffed with meds in order to stave off the right and proper end, that I find intolerable and immroral.
We're murdering the world anyway. I'm no different from any other roadkill in the race for profit and control, no different from a coral reef dying because of sunscreen lotion, or a rainforest tree murdered and pulped to make way for palm oil plantations. No reason I should spared, when they aren't. In fact, a rainforest tree is a lot more worth saving than you or I.

So why bother to try to move back to England? Well, partly the snetiment of dying at home, but the main reason is just that I want to disinherit my children and I cna't do that as long as i'm still resident in France. Well, i could, but only by putting all my money in an offshore “tax wrapper” life insurance investment thing – then I can name a friend as beneficiary and she can pass the money on to Survival International, Rainforest Action Network and World Land Trust, which is where I want it to go.

I did take out the life insuarnec, signed for it and everythjing, but I haven'tt transferred any money yet, as I feel very hesitant about it, though am not quite sure why. I thionk it's because it wouldn't be really under my control. Also, I don't really approve of capitalism or offshore wossnames. I eamn, I know it's all legal and declared
, but it's not what I really like. Some would be invested in metals and I know what that can mean – mining is so destructive. Any profitable investment nowadays is probably harmful, e.g. pharmaceuticals! Also, 30% would be tied up, so i couldn't use it if I didn't die soon and wanted the money.

But, if I cvould get to Engoland and put all my money into buying a one-bedroomed house or bungalow or hovel, then I could claim Oension Credit in order to survive as long as I had to and I could make a Will that really was my will. But it'd be a lot of hassle, just to make a Will, so perhaps teh offshore insurance thing would be better. If I weren't in this state, I wouldn't do either, so am a bit lost. I don't like all that stuff and don't know about it.

Also, i would like to die by morphine, rather than some violent method, and I think it'd be easier for me to get morphine in the U.K.

However, it may be too diffcilult to get there and if i can't take the van I'd have nowheer to go – it's all very complicated, expensive and difficlut.

But deciding to euthanise oneself is not something one does lightly, so I'm hardly likely to change my mind because of a few words from strangers on a message board! You spend months deciding and planning, then soneome says, “Oh, don't do that!” and you reply, “Oh, right, I won't then.” Not a likely scenario.

It's so disappointing, you can't imagine, but the sooner I can sort everything out and do it all, the sooner this will be over and the less time i'll have to spend being disappointed and sad. It's no different from deciding you have to get your horse “put down.” You're sad, you blame yourself bitterly for not having been more careful, you can hardly bear it, but those aren't reasons not to do it – you just have to eb practical. It takes a lot longer with a person, though, because horses don't have bank accounts, Wills, things in strorage, etc. and because I can''t just get a vet to come and do it for me the way he would for a horse.

If anyone is still reading thios more-and-more-boring thread and if they know anything about those offshore insurance investments, I'd appreciate knowing, but sheltered housing and so on, however kndly meant the suggestions are, is not something I could bear. I just want to get out of this horrible object that's replaced my own body, I want to do it as soon as possible and I want only the natural and innocent to gain by it.

Easterndawn

After reading this, I really think you need help with your mental and emotional status. However like everything this is your decision, I feel sorry for you in as much as the fact that help is available as many of the readers of this thread has informed you and yet you come up with reasons why you will not accept this help. I am not sure and have never been sure of what you wanted from this thread, obviously you have your mind made up in regards to why and what you want to do. I also feel sorry for you also in the fact that you wish to disinherit your children. My last word to you is please get the help for not only your physical problems but your mental and emotional problems as well!!!!!!

manamama

The mind and body both need care...

..unfortunately Spain does not provide care like the UK in terms of the mind as well as the body.

I think that as hard as it seems, the sooner you make plans to go back the better. The longer you leave it, the harder your body will cope. One step at a time....I can´t see how your situation will get better here in Spain. I don´t want to see you "give up" yet!

Has this thread helped you in sorting out your thoughts and decisions?

Wub

Mistake - you're angry, hurt, upset, very ill and understandably - not thinking straight. Where's that fighting spirit of yours today? Come on! Get organised, get home, sort out a place to live and then decide what you want to do.

What about getting back in touch with those kids of yours and showing them this thread? You never know, they just might want to help out a little....give them at least the chance to..people can surprise you...

Mistake

[QUOTE=Sugarmooma;8646503] But you (plural) weren't giving alternative opinions to anything I had written. You were giving alternative opinions to things you imagined i'd written. That's not a discussion – it's a series of non-sequitors, unrelated remarks. I don't mind if people disagree with me – why shouldn't they – but it drives me mad to keep being told I'm wrong about something i've never written, said or even thought!

I don't see how pain control would help. It wouldn't shrink my skin back to its proper size, restore veins or eyesight, regrow cartilage, mend damaged nerves... in fact, pain is the least of my problems. Anyway, there's perfectly good pain control in France, where I'm already resident and where there's no waiting list. And why d'you keep insisting taht theer a lots of medications that would help? If theer are and you know about them, you should get in touch with all teh hundreds of floxed doctors and tell them asap – they'll be so glad to have your knowledgeable advice. How silly of them not to have known it, when you do.

I can't see any pointful comparison between your husband, who took an informed decision to risk pancreatitis rather than lose a foot and part of a leg, and us FQ victims, most of whom didn't even have a bacterial infectiion, none of whom weer informed of the risks, and for whom even a serious bacterial infection could have been more safely treated. The two situations are totally different and the FQ damage is far worse than pancreatuitis, for most of us.

You seem to be congratulating yourself, almost boasting, about the fact that you took quinolones and “lived to tell the tale.” You seem to think that it was due to some kind of merit, some cleverness or virtue, on your part. You were lucky, not clever – just lucky. You should be saying, “Gosh, I was lucky to get away with it – I never knew. There but for fortune.. Thank you for the warning; now I know, I'll make sure I never take them again.”

Do you mind telling for what infection you weer prescribed the FQ and at what dosage and how many times? Or is it a secret? And are you saying that the doctor(s) who prescribed the FQ did warn you of all the effects I've listed and more, and told you that they are often irreversible and progressive, taht they might not appear until months or even years afterwards, when it'd be too late to not take the Fqs? And you still decided to go ahead and swallow them? Was it a matter of life or death, then?

As for all these people who keep doggedly repeating and believing that doctors know the side-effects of medecines and always warn their patients, if that is so, all the doctors who prescribed Vioxx to the 140,000 patients who died of it in the USA and to the 40,000 in France and to the tens of thousands in other counyries, must have been intentional murderers! And all the patients concerned must have been intentional suicides, if they all knew and had discussed the effects... And all the doctors who have “floxed” themselves with fluoroquinolones must be masochists. And the doctors who prescribed thalidomide actually wanted the babies to born with stump-limbs. It souns awfully unlikely.

Doctors don't know and, on the whole, do care – drug companies do know and seldom or never care. You may not differentiate – I do.

Mistake

Brilliant! I wondered how long it'd be before someone told me I needed either a psychiatrist or anti-depressants. I laid a bet about it yesterday and I think we're there, so I've won a euro. In fact, i should really get several euros, for the several replies.

Umm, well, I never asked for help or asked anything about help, did I? If you read my O.P., you'll see that I only asked a straightforward, practical question about the possibility of buying a flat/house/summat with nearly all my money (it would need all iof it, as I haven't much) and whetehr I would then be refused Pension Credit or other benefits. I asked that question, Bristol UK answered it and I was delighted by the reply. Simple. If you've forgotten, have a look. I neevr asked anything about sheltered accomodation or other help, I nevevr asked for any advice abouit my affairs, in any way – I just asked for that info. After that, i explained about FQ toxicity and we entered the land of well-meant-but-inapproriate-and-unwanted advice and of illogical undebate and and that's what made me frustrated – nothing to do with my own life.

In fact, I can't even see what the help is that I'm supposed to have refused...
Oh! D'you mean sheltered housing? But I'd already said waht I wanted to do and wanted to know and it didn't include anything about sheltered accommodataion or other help, just that one question about buying a place and then claiming pensionj credit. I don't want anything else and didn't ask for anything else. That's why i've just written - politely I thought - to explain that I wouldn't go into sheltered housing or any kind of nursing home or anything, as it's my idea of hell, though I am grateful for the suggestions, or rather the kind thoughts behond the suggestions. It may not be your idea of hell, but it is mine. I can't see why that means I need psychiatric help. You might as well say I need psychi help because I don't eat meat and loathe chocolate cupcakes, whereas you like them, or because I prefer wearing flip-flops to shoes. It's just a matter of personal preference.

Help I've refused... the otehr help i've been offered is by the people I mentiioned who came here – and I've accepted that, so where's your problem? I couldn't accept their offer of drivibng all teh way in two days, as am nit well enough and it would have been expensive and a mistake, but have accepted the offer of renting an old house near them as an interim step and a base from which i hope to be able to arrange things more easily. (I didn't know I was suppiosed to report to you on this, immediately and fully.) I only asked a simple question and then I only told you about Fqs. If people want to suggest other ideas, that's fine, but as I hadn't asked, I don't see what's wrong with refusing.

So what is teh help i've refused?

D'you mean that i've pointed out that the NHS or holistic therapists can't cure or help FQ damage? Well, that's not refusing help – it's just telling you facts. If you don't believe me, all you have to do is join the FQtox forums and ask, Or ask anywhere. Theer is no cure, there is no effectyive treatment, so why pretend there is? And why insist taht there must be, if you know noithing about it, whereas I've had eleven months of learning about it and watching all teh victims race from one therapist to another and from one teratment to another, wth none doing any good whatsoever?

If I'd asked what help was available in teh U.K. and then refused it... but i didn't ask, did I? If I can and do go back, I already knew why and wheer and what I'd do - and it didn't and doesn't include anything of that nature. Why should it? If i'd aksed about joining the Girl Guides and someone told me and then i refused, that'd be annoying for the people who had answered, but if I asked about where to buy hypoallergenic lipstick and were given informatuon about joinibng the Guides, I'd be justified in pointing out that it wasn't what I'd aske d about or wanted, wouldn't I? I didn't ask about any kind of shetered thingy, i know it was kind of people to suggest it, but i would hate it. So i need a psychiatrist? Because I don't want top live in shetkered accomodation and because it drives me mad trying to havea discussion with `people who can't discuss logically?

Well, guess what, easterndawn, so do I! Strange as it may seem, so do I. Mainly because it's so complicated, whereas in England you just write a Will and it's done. You don't know the erasons, of course, but then, why let total ignorance of teh facts stop you from passing judgement?
On the other hand, it's the same for many, many French people and many foreign residents in France, who have to find ways round the inheritance laws, and i doubt you'd tell them all to see psychiatrists, or think taht they needed mental and emotional “help”. Theer are many reasons for wanting to leave more to one child than to the others, or none to any – all sorts of reasons, including, fro instance, one child being handicapped, or three being in agreement and one not, or one being rich and the others in need, or previous divorce and remarriage, or.. lots more. The point is that there aren't many ways to do it. One is life insurance, which is separate and can be for any named beneficiary, but ties up your money. Another is to buy a house, then sell it “en viager” (bad idea.) Another is to move to the U.K!

Really? Is that a promise?

You only need one exclamation mark, in fact you should never use more than one.

I have already explained, again and again and again, that there is no effective medical treatment for FQ toxicity damage.
Why do you all find that so difficult – impossible – to believe? I mean, really – I would really like to know. Why?

My "mental and emotional" problems at this moment are caused by teh fact taht i'm at screaming point after trying to have a logical discussion here. And it's bluddy hot in the van and am stifling. Nothing else. Just ebcause someone doesn't thionk or feel the way you do, it doesn't necessarily mean they're mentally ill, you know.