Mistake

This is really complicated. I am in a bad position and a complicated one and I have several questions, which are all linked or interdependent.

Am British, have British passport, but left in 1985 and have lived in France since 1989. However, in 1991, I became too ill to work and have recieved Benefits in France since then, but still it's a very small income, well below the official "poverty line." I had a house (hovel) in France, but my life was miserable, for years and years. Eventually I managed to sell and come to Spain and was much, much weller and happier. I was starting to look for a cheap place to buy or rent, when i foolishly went to a Spanish doctor and took what he prescribed, without checking on the internet. Now, I am utterly crippled - it's been ten months and am getting worse and still stuck in the back of my old van on the same campsite where I was when I arrived. (It was Norfloxacino, a very toxic antibiotic.) I can't drive and never will again, I can walk, but slowly and painfully, I have sight loss, tremors, disastrous shortness of breath, all sorts of foul effects. I'll never be able to live completely independently again, as far as I can see.

I'm 62 and have a tiny pension from the U.K. - about £75 a week. I also have the money from my place in France, but it's not a lot and is diminishing.

Obviously, I can't go on as I am. The campsite people would like it, a steady income till I die, but it's intolerable.

The logical thing, i know, would be to return to France, where I'm still legally resident and where I receive an extra 270€ a month in Benefit, as well as a few other rights. But I was so miserable there, all that time, and so were my children. I desperatley don't want to go back. I would love to stay in Spain and somehow make it work, but I don't see that it would be possible, as I'm not going to get better and will probably get worse.

An extra reason that I don't want to return or to stay resident in Frnace is that I would have to spend all my money or nearly all on a place to live and then I'd be stuck again; also, very importantly to me, I'm not allowed to make a Will as I want to, but have to follow French inheritance law, unless I put it all in a life insurance policy, in which case I wouldn't be able to buy a house!

My only Spanish friend has offered to drive the van to the ferry at Santander, with me in the back, and an English friend has offered to collect me at Plymouth and take me to his place, where I can park in the garden and sleep in my van and use the house and have some friendship and help, but of course that's just a short-term plan, to give me a chance to see what's possible.. I think my son would help, too, but he's not in a good position himself, so that's not an option. Same applies to daughter.

I hope to go at the end of June. I was going to write and post the change of residence letters before I go, but now I wonder whether i should wait. I wanted to do it quickly, because you have to be resident in britain for three months before you cn make a valid Will – you can't just write the Will the day after you've arrived and declared that you're now domiciled there. I may want to commit suicide, seeing what my future is likely to be, so i'd like to get the Will sorted out asap, if nothing else. However, I've now discovered a possible reason for waiting, as I will explain below, and I don't mind waiting a while before commiting suicide, as long as I don't get to the point where I have to go into a Don't-Care Home.

My questions are.
Supposing I were to return, find a cheap enough house or flat (very cheap) and buy it, keeping just enough money to top up my income for six months or a year – would I then be entitled to Pension Credit and Community Tax rebate (and whatever else you can have if you're old, ill and porr) or would they say that, as I'd had enough money to buy a house when I returned, I shouldn't have spent it on buying a house, so am not entitled to anything (as opposed to someone who's had their house for longer and then falls on hard times, because they could say that i had obviously known I wouldn't have enough, so I shoulñdn't have spent it on buying.) Does anyone know the answer to this or where I can find out?

I should be able to claim DLA, but I believe that it takes ages – up to two years – and that they're very harsh if it's something that's diffcult to classify. or prove. Can anyone tell me more?

Obviously, i can't live on £75 a week, especially now I'm so handicapped.

I don't see that renting would be any better. I doubt I'd find anything affordable and that I could bear and it'd just use up my money for nothing.

I had been going to invest most of my money in an offshore “tax wrapper” life insurance. I actually took out the policy a couple of months ago, after much hesitation, but I can cancel it if I want, as I haven't yet paid in any money. If I go ahead, it should give me enough yearly gain to more than equal what i get from the French Benefit agency or what I'd get in Pension Credit in the U.K. However, I wouldn't be able to buy a house or flat, so in a way I'd be no better off. I don't really know how owning such a policy would be viewed if one wished to apply for Benfit. Nor do the advisor people – they know about tax, but not about benefit. If they ask on an application form whether i have any capital, I'd have to say Yes, wouldn't I? So presumably I'd lose my Benefit anyway. Therefore, the main advantage, or one of the main advantages, of a “tax wrapper” would be useless to me – it's useful to people who would be paying more income tax or capital gains tax, but it's not useful, or is less useful, to me, as I'd hardly pay any tax anyway and I don't mind paying income tax – I'm all for it – I would just like to have enough to live on and a place to live.
Does anyone know the answer to this? I know that a normal life insurance in France is exempt from declaration and can be left to whomever one chooses as benficiary(ies9 but one which was an investment might be different. I don't know the answer to this in either country.

I have now learnt that, if I am going to declare residence in the U.K. and if I do want to invest in the Tax Wrapper, it will be vastly advantageous to pay in the money before I declare residence. The way he put it in a brief email was,
“You can cancel it as you have not made any payments, you can also reduce the amount you want to invest as well. Also if you wait till you get back to the UK you would then have to get an onshore wrapper where you will be taxed on the growth each year where as if it is done before returning you only pay tax when you make a withdrawal and there are many tax breaks as well.
For example, 5% per year tax deferred withdrawal,”

but I don't understand and don't think he's explained clearly. In fact, I don't understand the way tax works on the “wrappers” and have a feeling that it may not be as wonderful as it's made out to be. I wonder whether anyone can explain it more clearly.

If i do pay the money into this insurance wrapper, it'd be a 5-year plan and 30% would be tied up the first year, diminishing to 10% in the last year, so if i regret it or need the money, I'd only ba able to withdraw 70% and presumably theother 30% would be enough to stop me from claiming benefits, so i'd be in an even worse position.

Wherever i go, if I don't die soon, I desperately want a place of my own.

The climate in the U.K. will be horrific for me and so will lots of things – what I mess most is people who know what I'm talking about. (I don't mean language – I speak very fluent French and now quite good Spanish – i just mean attitudes and culture – I'm no good at being in grpoups pf expats and one is never compeletly integrated, unless by marriage or something, though a lot of people pretend to be.)

I can see that it'd be a mistake to rush to cancel my fremnch residence and declare residence in the U.K., in case I do want to invest in this “wrapper”, but how can i understand and discover whether it is a good idea to invest in it? And what about teh questions of buying a house and then claiming benefiots and of whether owning a “tax wrapper insurance” would exclude one anyway?

The last questions is about litigation, but perhpas I shopuld address that question directly to lawyers in the three countries.

Any information and advice will be welcome. I still want to return at the end of June and spend the summer there, but don't really see what next, bearing in mind taht I'm so crippled.

sonlymewalter

Hello Mistake, I just came across your post by chance and whilst I'm not able to answer any of your questions, I just wanted to say hello

I'm bloody hopeless I know, but your post made me sad. You sound a lovely person who requires much needed help and I'm sure there is some sort of organization in UK that can help you. For a start off maybe ring the Samaritans [or email them] to ask for advice on who might be able to give you the answers you need.

Whilst your body is giving in, your mind is still sharp. You sound far too vibrant to let go of life just yet mate. Suicide is never the answer as someone somewhere loves you and will find this leaves a big hole in their heart

Good luck mate. Where there's a cloud, there's a silver lining

LisaP

I'm sorry you're in a situation like this. When you have a very complicated situation the best thing to do is break it down into manageable parts.

It sounds to me like the first thing you need to do is get into the NHS system and have your condition fully evaluated. There may be a treatment which will help you to feel better, after which you will be in a better position to make some decisions about where, and how, to live. Get fully informed about living before resorting to dying.

Good luck.

Mistake

You are so kind. I really do appreciate it and I'm very sorry I made you sad. I probably shouldn't have mentioned the suicide option - I always forget that most people are horrified by the idea and think it's always inadvisable, whereas to me it is totally reasonable. If I had a horse, dog or goat in this state, I'd have asked the vet to euthanise the poor creature months ago, Unfortunately, humans don't think that applies to them, but I don't feel that way. Nor do I believe that being not-dead is a worthwhile state in which to exist. I always said that when I realised I was getting to the old-people's-home stage, I'd opt out - it's unnatural, it's horrible and, in most cases, it's not being done for the sake of the invalid, but to salve the conscience of society - and, often, to make even more money. My aunt always said she would and she had, very sensibly and luckily, been able to make a store of barbiturates (they don't giove those out any more) and when the time came, she rang my mother, who went to keep her company, then she just took the tablets, fell asleep and never woke up. That's my choice as well, only I didn't expect it to happen so soon, so suddenly or for such a foul reason. The sad thing is not that people do commit suicide, but that they are pushed into situations that make them decide to. That is our Compassionate Society. (My mother didn't make provision, although she agreed that it was the best way, and she ended as a stroke victim dying slowly and torturously in hospital.)

I shouldn't have mentioned the suicide option, because I forget taht it upsets people and that they may think I'm just upset or want or need to be comforted, persuaded or otherwise helped. I mentioned it because, to me, it seems very relevant, and I can't delete it now!
If I stayed here, i'd have to do it by hanging - not much fun and I think I deserve better. (I've been practuising a lot and can do a beautiful knot, noose and everything – I've even practised with it round my neck, though of course I did it so that my feet wouldn't be off the ground. I like to do things properly and it's a great skill, as you can mess it up and die slowly and horribly, or you can get it right and break your neck at once. Honestly, it's very interesting and it may come in usefully one day.) If I go to the U.k., there'll be a few (very few) doctors who know about quinolone toxicity and I reckon that, for this amount of pain, they'll give me morphine - that way, i'll have some relief from the pain and will also be able to save up enough to leave gently when i decide to. Personally, i think it should be standard issue to all old people, when they get their pensions - here's your pension and here's a ticket to eternal sleep for when it gets too unpleasant. Or, if no doctor-morphine, I bet i could buy something similar, illegally, a lot more easily than i ever would be able to in Spain. (Apparently it's easy where I used to live in France, but i never thought - missed my chance!) Also, i believe totally in the survival of the spirit, so it's no big deal for me. The way I see it is that I'd never have accepted to take this poison if I'd known what it was, but as they didn't inform me and I was too stupid and irresponsible to check carefully on the internet before taking it, the only way I can refuse the consequences is just to say, “Right, this isn't my body any more and I refuse to remain in it.. You've turned it into a sick, ugly, creepy thing – you can have it!” It upsets me terribly that I took the stuff and that I'm so destroyed, but leaving it doesn't upset me.

I do agree, thougjh, that if theer's someone who needs you, then that's a reason for going on – noty just someone who loves you or cares about you, but someone who actually needs you. That is one thing I may do – try to sue or make a big fuss, in order to save some Spanish people, as they are totally uniformed and all the available information is in Englsih. But then, you know, there's always aniother Good Cause waiting and I'm rather worn out by trying to do good against such a rising tide of harm. Rainforests, bauxite mines, GM seeds, horrendous wars, toxic everything – it's beena long nearly-63-years and I am tired. People are so greedy nowadays and they're greedy for the wrong things and for quantity rather than quality.

Everyone should be aware, because it can happen so easily, even one tablet can wreck some people. You can read about it on http://www.fqresearch.org and http://www.levaquinadversesideeffect.com/ and many other websites. Also http://www.askapatient.com/ is good for checking people's reactions to various medications. I try to warn people, but very few really believe it could happen to them, or at all. I only had cystitis and it wasn't even an infection – didn't need any antibiotic. Considering that pharmaceuticals are the fourth richest industry in teh world, we're pretty dumb not to investigate further into why and how.

Where was I? Oh yes... Well, just tos ay thank you, I'm sorry I made you sad and please don't worry.


Hi Lisa, yes I garre – agree - about manageable parts. That's why I need to find out the answers to those questions – they are the manageable parts.

No, unfortunately, there is absolutely no antidote and no teartment for quinolone or fluoroquinolone damage. For most peopel, if they're badly affected, it goes on for many years or for the rest of their lives. I've spent ten months reading literally thousands of pages of information and research, as well as reading the forums where people are desperately trying one thing after another – there's nothing, which is not surprising once you know how teh FQs do their damage. It's ace for the sickness Industry, though, because they can turn healthy people into lifelong invalids who need one operation after another, one drug after another, and so on. This is chemotherapy, but they're giving it in vast doses to people who just need a couple of anti-inflammatories or a soothing syrup!

Howeevr, I would ecratyinly prefer to be under the NHS than amny doctor in Spain – it's truly shocking what goes on here. For instance, without haveing seen me, a doctor sent a nurse to give me benzo-diazepine tranquiliser and when I refusde, she very nearly forced it into my mouth! Then, in the hospital, a nurse tried to give me an injecyion of Warfarin or similar and I had to physically hold her off to stop her. Not only didn't i need it, but it was contra-indicated with the meds that ahd alredy damaged me. She said that give one to every patient, even if they only stay for a night, as you might have a blood clot from lying down all that time!

Oh look – that'sm one of teh effects – I'm starting to reverse letters. It can get so bad that you can' understand anything I write.

Thank youf or teh reply, though.

Easterndawn

Wondering why you are not trying to get the Dr. or the drug company to assist you, if your health problems are caused by wrongfull precription of drugs or drugs that can cause such severe health problems, there must be something that can be done legal wise to help you.

Also do you have your children with you?, as you mentioned that they hated France and that was one of the reasons you did not want to return.

Also benefits in UK are only refused if you have over £16,000 in savings.

Mistake

The drug company wouldn't assist me! nor would anyone, on those grounds. It'd take a successful court case, which is nigh-on impossible and would cost a zillion and last till doomsday. If you look at the websites, you'll see. I would like to sue or claim out iof court and I've already been down two dead-end avenues - this is Spain, remember, and the most Andalusian part, more like Africa in some ways. I have other avenues to explore, but not because it'd get me any help, only to make them take notice for the future.

The chi,kdren are grown-up. I meant that they hated it when they were there.

So d'you mean that i could buy a house and six months later I'd be entitled to all the same benefits as if I'd always lived there? Pension credit, Community tax rebate, etc? Are you sure, after I've been away for so long? That'd be great.

Presumably an offshore insurance tax wrapper would count count as savings?

Mistake

I've just realised that my last post hasn't appeared. It was a long reply to sonlymewalter and a shortyer one to LisaP. I think it's been moderated because I discussed the subject that dare not speak its name, umm, euthanasia of self. I won't try again, but will just say thank you very much for your kindness and don't worry - i'm not suffering from depression or despair, just don't agree with all this lingering on half-alive.

Lisa, I agree about breaking it into chunks and that's why I've put a list of questions, but they're all related, which is why I started with the background. No, there will be a few U.K. doctors who know or want to know, but there is absolutely no treatment, because of the ways in which these molecules affect human cells. They would be more understanding, though, or at least some would. Cetainly, I'd rather be in the NHS than in teh Spansih system.

BristolUK

While it is possible that one can be treated as still having capital for Pension Credit claims (and Income Support/JSA) that happens where someone spent it deliberately in order to qualify.

Most commonly it would be where someone had a claim turned down because the capital existed and then went on a spending spree before making another claim.

These Benefits can actually be paid to someone who has capital from a property sale if those funds are to be used for the purchase of another property. So they're not going to say you shouldn't have bought a home.

Unless you bought a Palace or something.

There need be no waiting period for the benefits either. They'll consider Habitual Residency but selling up so you can return to the UK are obvious signs of intention to reside in the UK. That particular aspect might not run as smoothly as you'd like but the Citizens Advice Bureau could help.

DLA needn't take that long either.

Pension Credit is £132.60 minus any existing income.
Not only is DLA in addition to the £132.60, it could trigger a higher award of Pension Credit.

Mistake

Oh WOW! That is such amazingly good news. Honestly, I had exactly the opposite impression. Oh, it would be amazing if i could have a place of my own to live in. I haven't had a proper home for soo long. I should think i'd get DLA, as I can hardly walk, let alone the rest. That would be just wonderful. So i was right to hestitate about the tax wrapper, because i'd far rather have a home of my own. I'd seen discussions on a Brittany forum in which people complained that they'd returned and found they had no rights, or hardly any, but perhaps they were expecting too much.

Now I can fantasise and search for the cheapest house in Britain. I have seen one I love and that is nearly cheap enough, so there must be a few.
And I needn't do that tax wrapper, which was giving me the creeps. How very cheering, for a change. Gosh, i'm chuffed - thank you, Bristol UK and thank you to the others as well.

Also, I'll be able to open a Co-op bank account, which will be less immoral.

Sue

It was because there were links in it. Posts by new members containing links go directly to a moderation queue. This is to deter spammers who target the site. However, your post is now live.

Sue

BristolUK

You might want to consider getting some advice on how to do the form. CAB...Disability Alliance...someone in the welfare advice line of work.

Sometimes people are a little too positive when completing the form and focus on what they can do or the 'good' days rather than the problems and the 'bad' days. That is a very good outlook to have normally but not if it adversely affects some level of independence.

Mistake

Oh, I see. thank you. This is an amazingly efficient and polite from, not like the other expat ones I've seen.

I'm glad the post has appeared, as I want to make the links available. It's terrible that not only patients, but doctors to,o are so misinformed. The only thing left when it's too late for oneself is to try to use it in order to warn other people.

An amazing thing happened. I had been so down (because the campsite owner had cut off the internet and refused to restore it, so i had no contact at all, and Mercadona wouldn'ty deliver any more, so I'd been living on tinned peaches and rice from the horrible little campsite shop and no-one spoke to me and it was all too dire, as I couldn't even walk to get the tinned peaches most days) that I used my last mobile 'phone credit to ring the church (I'm not catholic) and ask the priest to come, as I wanted to speak to someone in confidence about moral sort of stuff. So the priest came and he decided I should have avisit from a social worker and next day there was one and six policemen. they were all very nice, but not very bright. Of course, they had a copy of my passport, because i'd registered that months ago. Four or five days passed, then the internet suddenly came back on and then there was a 'phone call and it was my son, rining from England. We used to be best mates as well as mother and son, but his father is amn evil creature and manages to some between everyone and what or whom they love, so we'd hardly spoken for years and it was a bitter thing. Anyway, apparently h0d come home to find a message on his answerphone, from the Foreign Office! They said that his mother was being held prisoner on a campsite in Spain! Apparently, that was what the social worker had said, but it can't be - I think it was Spanish Chinese whispers.

So things are looking up. Well, they couldnt have got a lot worse, really. What a pity, though, because if I'd known I could go to England and manage, I'd have done it quite some time ago and then I wouldn't be crippled. Still, at least I can go home, to my land. My friend who's going to collect me has been panning for gold in the Dart with his children. they've found 3 grains of gold!

I never heard from the priest or the social worker again, but isn't that impressive of the Foreign Office? I didn't tell them anything - they just had his Christian name from my passport, nothing else, yet within hours they'd found him and found his telephone number.

Thank you. Yes, i will definitely do that. I know that it makes a big difference, knowing just the right things to put.

Mummy in the foothills

Some one was just talking about UK sheltered housing in IN THE OVER 50'S AND 60'S post.
You might want to google that and look at what is available. I know there are bungalows and flats near my Mom like this and even she was going to sell her house and move into one, it's based on age 60 for women and 65 for men. probably a good option for you, you can opt for as little or and much help as needed.

LisaP

What about those shared ownership schemes with housing associations? I don't know much about it, I'm sure someone on here does.

Good luck, good to hear you sounding a bit more positive. Best not mention the suicide option...

Mistake

Thanks, everybody. I had to start my own thread, in order to ask about what appeared to me to be complicated, difficult, perhaps impossible, but now i have the answers and it turns out to be not complicated, not very difficult and absoultely possible, if I want to discuss more, I should join the Over %0's and 60's thread.
In fact, I can see that I'll be even iller in England, because this morning is damp and misty and rather British weather and am in anigony and can hardly move - but I'll be in agany and hardly moving on my own home ground - that's the difference.

No, I won't mention it in public again - I just always forget taht most people don't share my ultra-practical attitude to it ! (Am allergic to smileys, or would put a laughey-grinney here.) To smell the air on Dartmoor and listen to the tiny crickling sound that the earth there makes at sundown... Just now, I can't think of anything more wonderful.

Thanks again.