Norm_uk

Very well put - whatever happened to personal responsibility, expat or not?

N.

slapphead_otool

It may be a generational thing, but its very sad to see.

Norm_uk

Perhaps - then again, credit wasn't so easily available to our grandparents...they didn't have the media bombarding them with things they don't need but must buy and I suppose there was more of a general sense of shame of being someone insolvent than there is today.

Hard to say but whatever the reason personal responsibility remains a core virtue everyone should be trying to achieve.

N.

slapphead_otool

To be honest Norm I think it goes further than just Credit. I think its a protected generation who had the UK to mother them, and always had someone else to blame no matter what happened.

Norm_uk

Can't argue with that - the enemy of hard work and personal responsibility has always been the welfare state. People simply do not value what they are given for free as much as that which they have earned by hard work.

N.

Eeyore

There's little point comparing the world of our grandparents to the one that exists today. In our grandparents' time, people mostly bought only what they could pay for in cash, saving for years if necessary, and the economy was entirely based around that concept. Consumer credit as we understand it today didn't really come into existence until the late 1960s, and lenders were very picky about who they lent to and how much they lent them until only about 15 years ago.

These days, the nature of the consumer economy has changed so much that it depends, absolutely 100% depends, on people buying goods and services on credit. If consumers suddenly switched to buying only what they could afford to pay for in full in cash, many retail industries would find themselves on the skids virtually overnight. All the consumer technology companies would be utterly screwed.

The car retail business in Dubai would be a good example. Hardly anybody buys new cars with cash, they do it on finance (and Emiratis are particularly keen on getting the longest-term finance they can and rolling it over to get another new car every time their free service contract runs out).

Vikingman

Hi

I left Dubai in 2010 and the banks have got my number, I told them I have no means to pay them back. They charged me an amount for credit card insurance yet they say they cant use that and I must pay, or they will take legal action. Can anyone lend some value to my question.

Welivehere

What question?

TGFKASE

No question mark, no question......

slapphead_otool

I fully agree, and I would add that this deliberate easing of credit came as a result of free trade agreements. These wrecked the Wests manufacturing base, and removed employment for a large slice of the population. Without work they couldn't afford to buy products - either locally made or cheap imported goods made in the new economies.

To get over this the West started low cost easy loans, and we became consumer nations, living on cheap credit. We still enjoyed the same standard of living, we simply didn't pay for it. We just borrowed to maintain it.

Now of course the debt is being called, and both as individuals and as nations we cant pay up. Greece and its high level of debt is one end of the spectrum, an unemployed American with a new car and house on credit is the other end.

Now we are stuffed. We don't make anything, and we cant pay back what we owe. Greeks protest in Athens, and there are sit ins in Wall Street. We are trying to ignore the obvious. The West is going to have to lower its standard of living, and its going to happen sooner rather than later.

You know those whole families you see riding on a single rusty Honda scooter in third word Asia? Well you will see it in the West before long.

Why did it happen? Well the socialists thought it was a great idea to give all of out wealth to the third world, and the capitalists thought it was a great idea to source cheaper goods in nations that didn't have strikes, industrial action, and where workers earn $20/day at best. So both sides of the fence pushed for it. We were sold out to greed and politics...

typical

It's not the third world that's holding all the wealth

We've seen massive, massive wealth concentration in the West in the past years. Whatever you say about free trade, the "capitalists" broke the social contract, and at some point that is going to come back to haunt them.

slapphead_otool

I dont agree. The problem is the massive population difference between third world nations like China (who are hardly third world these days anyway) and the west.

For each chinese citizen to lift their standard of living by a small percentage the west must drop its standard of living by a huge percentage.

China now holds most of the worlds wealth. The shirt, socks, trousers and shoes that I wear as I type this were all made in China. My money for them flowed out of the west and into China, and it only comes back when they buy up cheap assets here.

Capitalists were just fed up with the idiotic attitude of workforces in the West. I remember "Red Robbo" in the 70s, destroying the UK car industry with his political agenda. I wouldn't invest in any business that had workers like that, and no one else would either.

Either way, its off topic for this thread. suffice to say we are all going to be a lot poorer in 10 years time. Enjoy the new car and the Spanish holiday, cos you wont get another one anytime soon.

typical

Economic development is demonstrably not a zero-sum game.

No, it really doesn't. Latest estimates (2010) I saw said it held about 8% of it - compared to 31% for North America and 32% for Europe.

My shirt was made in Vietnam, my trousers in Mauritius and my socks in Bangladesh. So what?

The Chinese aren't only buying cheap assets, either.

Never bought a new car and doubt I ever will, but I'm confident we won't see an end to Spanish holidays.

Vikingman

Is it true they cant use the insurance I paid, and what can they do to me as I moved over to OZ for work ?

Norm_uk

Pretty much spot on.

The problem we are most spoiled babies now who will whine and whinge we don't have all the latest gadgets, furnishings and cars even though we can't afford them without credit - and we can't afford to pay back the credit.

Our trade deficits are so askew it's shocking. How on earth can we expect to keep importing stuff yet we don't produce enough to pay for it - so borrow money from ourselves and then wonder why things are not so good.

Yup - we will have to start living within our means, finding more goods and services we can export and start looking at things like friends, family and hobbies to have a fulfilled life rather than stuff.

N.