Leslie

Really?!?!? I thought it was in the constitution........ Life, liberty, and the pursuit of mail-order-brides...........

Folinskyinla

Hi:

I am NOT unsympathetic to your argment, but --

You are repeating an argument that was made back in the 1970's and was UNIFORMLY rejected by the courts -- in regards to the "right" of US citizen CHILDREN to have their parents live with them and take care of them.

The "immediate relative" classification includes not only the spouses, but also the parents of US citizens. In 1976, Congress amended the law to require that the US citizen be at least 21 years of age.

There were many challenges that this was depriving the US citizen children of their rights and was the de facto deportation of innocent US citizen children.

Look at what the law does to children, and most people might agree that the children would probably have more "rights" than spouses.

mystie888

I think you are all missing my point, which is not that I have the right to marry a non-US citizen. I am in no way trying to say that. My point is that the government should not be in the business of evaluating the quality of my relationship with my fiance unless that standard is applied to all marriages in the US.


~Mystie

Leslie

They are held to a different standard because they include a non-citizen. That is not convenient for most of us. It is the fair and right way when you consider the amount of fraud and abuse that there is. Two US citizens marrying each other, cannot possibly by the nature of the relationship be committing immigration fraud. Why would they be scrutinized for it?

Leslie

DCMark

Then your point is severely flawed. The government does not care about the genuineness of a marriage to a USC becasue that does not create an immigration situation. A marriage to an alien represents a certain immirgration and possible citizenship application somewhere in the future.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

The government doesn't care about your marriage unless YOU bring it to issue -- and you have.

Also, they don't care about the "quality" of the marriage -- they just make sure its "real." A bona-fide low quality marriage is fine as far as the government is concerned.

Dekka's Angel

I agree. But you already have this right. You have no limits on your ability to marry and then live outside of the United States (subject of course to the relevant foreign country's own limitations on immigration) with your chosen partner. I have yet to see the US government interfere in anyone's exercise of this right.

If you are honest and reflective for a minute, you will realize that you are not asking for the right to marry, which I agree everyone in a US-US match has and thus, so should you. You are instead asking for a different right which is *not* possessed by most USC-based marriages: the right to marry anyone of your choosing and then remain as a couple in the United States when only *one of you* has that pre-existing right. You are asking for the right to have your spouse granted in a rapid fashion unique rights that he could not have but for your relationship, rights that people in USC-USC matches already have when they get married (such that there is no extra set of rights conferred to them, at least not those grounded in lawful resident status in the US).

That's not an equal protection analysis. Equal protection is a doctrine which says that similarly situated people are to be treated the same. You are not similarly situated to a couple both of whose participants have free reign to reside in the US, as you must concede. To the contrary, you're asking for *favored treatment* (grant to your partner rights he would not otherwise have) merely because you as a USC fell in love.

Well, in a world of open borders that would be fine. But in this one, it is not. Thus, if you wish to marry *and* remain on US soil, you have to go through this process. It is not easy, but now having been with my beloved day to day for 5 months, it was worth every minute of it.

Believe me, as the USC spouse of a foreign national, I wish the process were faster. I missed my husband horribly while we were waiting for his fiance visa to process. But I also respect the right of the US government to decide how to control its borders, even if I do not agree with that government in all of its particular decisions in this area. And I do not think my individual, admittedly biased and love-lorn and non-objective perspective on the matter should dictate how the best interests of the nation as a whole are handled, where immigration is concerned.

mystie888

I am very frustrated by my inability to make a point. I guess I should give up. I seem to have sparked quite a fury. My response was to the original post that said the BCIS should perhaps slow down and look at these cases more closely to validate that both parties truly love each other. And my point was that the last thing I want is the same agent that will send me an RFE for writing N/A instead of NONE is not the same person I want deciding if I truly love my fiance based on a few pages of narrative and some emails. AND that the long wait we are all enduring has nothing to do with this anyways.

I repeat... I never said I had the right to marry a non-US citizen and have him immigrate here, just the equal right like all other US citizens to decide for myself if I loved him.

~Mystie

Dekka's Angel

You have yet to explain how you are deprived of this right through the process. You are not. I cannot recall a single post on the NG to the effect of "my fiance/spousal visa petition for my foreign spouse/fiance was denied/RFE'd because USCIS says I don't love my foreign spouse/fiance even though he/she loves me".

What people have reported is real suspicion about the legitimacy of the *foreign* fiance's stated love quotient and motivation for marriage (except in rare circumstances). It is of course possible for USCIS to also question the USC's motives but I have yet to hear of it being a serious factor in the entire time I've been on the NG. Proof on the fiance's intent -- through "relationship evidence" -- clearly varies depending on where the foreign fiance/spouse is from taking into account a number of things we as one-time users of the process do not see -- i.e. the incidence of immigration fraud based on far too many historical indicia to list.

This has nothing to do with your process of deciding whether you are in love, does it? If so, I guess I'm missing your point about how this is so.

lpdiver

And exactly how would you apply parameters to legally validate love? The sad fact is that a lot of people will do just about anything to immigrate and marriage falls into that catagory. A lot of hearts have been broken by this simple fact.

jeffreyhy

Mystie,

I disagree with you in 2 respects.

First and foremost, the issue of this thread is not a failed marriage, but an alleged fraudulant marriage. Two very different things.

Second, an alien who gains US Permanent Resident status in the US gains many of the rights of citizens, obligations of the US government (and in turn we the citzenry) to which they wouldn't otherwise be entitled. This certainly can be a burden that we wouldn't otherwise have to bear, hence the I-864.

On the otherhand, such alien could be a benefit to our society. Whichever it is - burden or benefit - once they're in we're stuck with the consequence so, although one can never be sure, it's important to make the best determination that can be made ahead of time.

Regards, JEff

jeffreyhy

Mystie,

The government is not evaluating the quality of your relationship with your fiance. Again, the issue that started this thread is fraud. The government does and should have a responsibility to determine if your foreign fiance has the same relationship with you that you have with him.

Regards, JEff

jeffreyhy

mystie,

Maybe the last thing you want is the CIS evaluating whether you and your fiance truly love each other, but the last thing I want is for an alien to be sneaking his way into the US by claiming that he loves you when in fact he doesn't give a hoot about you and is merely using you as a way to get in.

Indeed, I don't want my wife to be pulling this trick on me, either. But I can't look at her objectively because I love her whether or not she loves me. But the rest of you folks, and the BCIS, can look at my situation a little more objectively than I can.

Regards, EJff

Andrew Defaria

Folinskyinla wrote:

    > The government doesn't care about your marriage unless YOU bring it to
    > issue -- and you have.
    > Also, they don't care about the "quality" of the marriage -- they just
    > make sure its "real." A bona-fide low quality marriage is fine as far
    > as the government is concerned.

Of course the government cares about your marriage to a foreigner. For
example, just try to marry somebody of the same sex! Won't fly. Just try
to submit a petition for somebody that you agree to marry based on
something other than love, something like money or the like. The
government won't buy it.You have to meet the government's definition or
"bona-fide" and "marriage" which is not the same all over the world.
There is little doubt that the government is in the "martial bedroom" so
to speak in this instance.



--
Hard work has a future payoff - Laziness pays off now.

Leslie

Mystie,

Don't get discouraged and don't think your stance is an unpopular one to take. My mother was shocked when she found out my husband wouldn't be flying back with me after we got married overseas. I can't tell you how often people comment to me how horribly they think I'm being treated by my government during this immigration process, because of the lengthy and difficult separation we are experiencing. These are intelligent well educated folks, they just don't know anything about marriage based visas. Truthfully, there is room for improvement within the system. Nobody will argue with that. (Well somebody might, but it's probably just somebody that likes to argue).

On this thread you are dealing with several legal minds, myself excluded of course (). They are not trying to shoot you down. They are simply trying to explain why things are the way they are. Believe me it's hard to get your brain around it all, but when you do, it gives you some peace.

Leslie