What a cop out...
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/8582478.stm

How disappointing that the police officer accused of assaulting a G20 protestor (the incident infamously caught on TV cameras) has resorted to a pathetic excuse that he "thought a carton of orange juice in her hand was a weapon".

Have a look at the video again. Isn't that a rubbish defence?

Come on, Officer Smellie, just admit that you gave shrieking hippy exactly what she deserved.

Re: What a cop out...
 

Surely, then, that will give all chavs an excuse for accosting people with a carton of orange juice in their hands?

Edit: I've just noticed that the verdict hasn't been given yet. Here's hoping he gets convicted.

Re: What a cop out...
 

That does seem a rubbish defence, I don't suppose anyone involved believes it.

Re: What a cop out...
 

Wasnt there a python sketch where soldiers "armed" with fruit were shot by an overenthusiastic authority figure? Life imitating art perhaps?

For some reason the classic "Constable Savage" NTNoCN sketch comes to mind, although its entirely inappropriate to this thread!

Re: What a cop out...
 

I hope he's convicted too - beating a girl half his size with a stick; jeez some hardened copper that is. I guess we should be thankful they weren't armed with tazers on that occasion.

Re: What a cop out...
 

Was the orange juice organic/fairtrade?

The following quote conjures up a certain stereotype.....

The court head Ms Fisher, of Brighton, was depressed and "unwilling" to attend proceedings over fears the defence would focus on her lifestyle and background.

Re: What a cop out...
 

It will be interesting to see if this goes anywhere due to the last few paragraphs stating the victim would not attend court. If it was any other case it would be thrown out straight away!

"The court head Ms Fisher, of Brighton, was depressed and "unwilling" to attend proceedings over fears the defence would focus on her lifestyle and background.

District Judge Daphne Wickham ruled her statement to independent investigators could not be admitted in evidence, but turned down an application by the defence to throw out the case."

Tim

Re: What a cop out...
 

Her concerns were valid. The prosecution doesn't need her evidence - he's bang to rights in the video.

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Nonsense. The officer was just dong his duty to protect the elite against a carton of orange juice.

Re: What a cop out...
 

He may appear to be bang to rights in the video but the copper has been charged with common assault which means that the person he hit is the victim.

Normally at court when the victim fails to turn up for whatever reason the case is simply thrown out.

Tim

Re: What a cop out...
 

there is another side to this. firstly the complainant/aggrieved party and witness is not willing to appear and the statement she submitted will not be presented in evidence. yet the trial goes ahead? i sincerely doubt this would be the case in any other arena apart from a very public trial of a police officer.
now thats not saying i don't believe the police should be held to higher account, because i do. however, you can't have one set of trial rules for the general population and another for the police.

on the orange juice thing, yes that does sound like bollox, however again, the court has ruled all his actions up until this point lawful, so it begs the point if he was acting lawfully up until this point are we are quibbling over a very very fine line in the heat of the moment. i'm not saying he should not be held accountable, but how would you feel if you were about to lose your job, pension, house, relationship all for what appears to be a minor error of judgement under extreme pressure. cops are human you know, sometimes we get it wrong, this is when i object to a public lynching. though i appreciate he appears not to be helping with this defence.

Re: What a cop out...
 

Err, I rather suspect it would be the case anyway if the assault was recorded live like this one. The flip side is if that hadn't been the case, the complainant could show up as often as she liked but a complaint against a policeman would never have a chance.

Re: What a cop out...
 

One should try not to judge people by appearances.

Re: What a cop out...
 

It was a container of acid.








ascorbic acid

Re: What a cop out...
 

Was she in possesion of thick lips and wearing a loud shirt in a built-up area?

Re: What a cop out...
 

It's her decision to not appear in court and the reasons given which appear to indicate she is aware of her own lack of credibility as a witness.

Obviously the policeman made a mistake.

No one comes out with a great deal of credit.

Re: What a cop out...
 

I don't think that indicates her lack of credibility at all. It indicates what she said - that in court the defence will try to discredit her to gain the upper hand and that any information released in court will become public knowledge. Would you want details of your life in the national newspapers?? You would want it even less if you were depressed.

Re: What a cop out...
 

That's my reading of it too. I fully understand her reasons for not wanting to appear in court.

Re: What a cop out...
 

If she was a credible witness she would have no trouble at all in appearing in court. The defence would only be able to successfully discredit her if there was a basis upon which to discredit her.

She has the opportunity to appear in court to project herself as a reasonable person who was a victim of assault but has declined to do so.

Re: What a cop out...
 

you are saying then that only reasonable persons can be victims??

I have a few skeletons in my cupboard that I would not want publicised, plus an ex or two that I wouldn't want to know where I lived. I suppose in your view I would be an unreasonable person with no credibility as a witness.

Your prejudices are showing.

Re: What a cop out...
 

I always thought that the accused had the right to face his/her accuser, or is that just in the movies or on TV.

Re: What a cop out...
 

.

Re: What a cop out...
 

I don't see what difference it makes either way. That copper is guilty of assault as can be seen from the video. Maybe the consequences don't merit the crime as rae suggests, but you can't say he didn't do it - cos he did. Dragging that young girl into court isn't going to change that.

Re: What a cop out...
 

Surely he was just afraid of being squashed!

Re: What a cop out...
 

I wouldn't claim to be able to judge on that - I expect the judge (or jury?) will come to the correct decision.

Clearly he hit her but whether or not there are valid mitigating factors is for the judge to decide based on all the evidence not just the video.

She is over 18 isn't she?

Re: What a cop out...
 

What evidence more can there be beyond than that shown? We see a shrill harridan baiting the cop to hit her. He does. The question is whether or not it was reasonable of him to do so, how much restraint can one expect from the police?

Introducing more considerations such as, for example, her drug taking and her sexual history, is just about muddying the waters. Either it's reasonable force or it isn't, it's not unreasonable force against a Conservative and reasonable force against an organic vegan.

Re: What a cop out...
 

I see two attempts by a good for nothing (self confessed leach on UK society) making two approaches at said cop who rightly brushed aside this weasel using only his highly trained peripheral vision in tune with his gloved hand and then his baton.

Still gobbing off she got whacked, sad story....

Its just a video, the cop was there for real having to watch a wide arc filled with other nutters.

Pity he was not carry a proper full length baseball bat type baton rather than his little albeit puny quick extender; then he could have stayed back a bit (also keeping the smell away) giving them a good prod to keep their distance...

My two cents...now off to refresh my aid to the civil power-baton wielding skills.

Life is good.

Re: What a cop out...
 

A question, if I may. Would you say that your extremist authoritarian viewpoints derive from your lack of communication skills, or does holding such views adle one's brain?

The great difficulty the rest of have in discussions with those, such as yourself, who hold views on the extreme right is that such views are rarely advanced in a coherent fashion. I can understand this in the case of Americans, trailer trash from the States beyond the net of the education system, but you're from the UK, you must once have been able to form sentences.

Life Military Brain ****ing is it?

Re: What a cop out...
 

If I get caught on camera speeding, that evidence in itself is enough to convict me. I don't need to appear in court, and no copper ever saw me do it.

The amount of CCTV cameras in the UK suggests that video evidence is considered to be pretty much incontrovertable, so I assume that this is why the judge is allowing the video evidence to stand on its own, without the presence of the undoubtedly whiny and highly annoying victim.

Re: What a cop out...
 

I would agree with that most strongly. Probably not in the way you meant it though. ;)

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Have you ever given evidence in Court? I regularly rip people to bits in cross examination. I would be very unlikely to give evidence in any case, particularly one that I am unlikely to personally benefit from.

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The accuser is the State, not the women he assaulted.

Re: What a cop out...
 

Given your wish to fellate anyone in authority coupled with your apparent unquestioning ignorance you might want to consider a career in the met.

Re: What a cop out...
 

Yes the accuser is the state but the aggrieved is the woman. If you are in the legal system we both know that jobs where the aggrieved doesn't turn up will routinely get binned.

Tim

Re: What a cop out...
 

I don't know about that, there are very few victims of murderers that attend to give evidence. If there is sufficient evidence, the trial goes ahead. The police are there to uphold the law, they are not judge, jury and executioner. Their "authority" emanates from the fact that they are model citizens. If the officer in question cannot deal with provocation, he needs to find another occupation.

Re: What a cop out...
 

I don't think you can compare a murder with what this copper is on trial for. There obviously can't be a victim for that!!!

I'm just saying that in normal court cases for common assault it would have been binned if the victim did not wish to turn up and give their evidence.

Tim

Re: What a cop out...
 

What is the legal situation compelling people to appear as witnesses? The defendant is entitled not to appear - although that usually seems to be taken as practically an admission of guilt so then its a question of whether other evidence exists to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Has the judge in this case made a special allowance for the victim to not appear - on what grounds - would it have been the prosecution lawyer who made that application? Will that not give grounds for the policeman to appeal at a later stage if he is found guilty at this trial?

Re: What a cop out...
 

So you think he should get off on what is basically a technicality then?

Re: What a cop out...
 

I think he should be afforded the same rights and procedures as any other person. That is all. It will be interesting to see the result of the trial.

Tim

Re: What a cop out...
 

Sure, but what you are suggesting implies that I could beat the crap out of some-one, upload a video of it to you-tube and providing I intimidate the person into not appearing in court I would get off.