Trudeau

Old Sep 22nd 2019, 11:44 pm
  #151  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by Tumbling_Dice View Post

Your middle comment I shall ignore as it is not pertinent to a thread on Trudeau. I only brought it up as the liberals were trying to crucify Scheer on this topic. Your limitations in your thinking on the topic are your own.
Well, you did bring it up, and it's an area in which the conservatives in Canada have historically done very poorly. I don't think it's limited thinking to take the view that people should have equal rights and those rights should not be bounded by the whims and superstitions of others.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 4:16 am
  #152  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Others have quoted him saying that an apology for a past behaviour should be the end of the matter. Is the continuing attacking of Trudeau despite an apology (several times over) not such a double standard?

Or is it okay when it's one of your own but a bad thing and not forgivable when it's someone on the other team? Or does it only count for certain double standards and not others?
Funny you should says things like that because I can't see any point where I have claimed Scheer as one of my own. Your assumption on that point is entirely on you.

My point, which should be obvious, is that there is a reasonable question to be asked as to whether Trudeau is apologising because he was caught (when he has admitted not admitting to it) or because he genuinely feels it. Singh has asked the correct question on it and it is for Trudeau to either answer or voters to decide. Given his hypocrisy on other matters "people may see situations differently", for example, I shall naturally be sceptical, as will many others, and that will lead to the question as to whether he is forgiveable.

It remains funny that the continuing attacking of poor wee Trudeau should annoy you so much. Might it occur to you that it is not just partisan conservatives who are attacking him but those who are not partisan, who voted for him at the last election, and who are now wondering if he is full of crap? I mean, one other thing that he could be questionned on is: I will reform the voting system... oh, hang on, that won't work for me, ***** that!!

There are many reasons to not vote for him, in my own view, but rank hypocrisy seals the deal. The question should then be NDP, Green or Conservative.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 4:20 am
  #153  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
Well, you did bring it up, and it's an area in which the conservatives in Canada have historically done very poorly. I don't think it's limited thinking to take the view that people should have equal rights and those rights should not be bounded by the whims and superstitions of others.
The liberals brought it up, which is why I referred to it. This is a discussion on Trudeau... Unfortunately, the liberals have made the mistake of investing their brand in golden boy and it has come a bit of a cropper.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 7:16 am
  #154  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by Tumbling_Dice View Post
The liberals brought it up, which is why I referred to it. This is a discussion on Trudeau... Unfortunately, the liberals have made the mistake of investing their brand in golden boy and it has come a bit of a cropper.
It's a recurring problem with dynasties. The genes never breed true and, unless you're very lucky, those genes that carry important traits like deceit, betrayal and common back stabbing get trashed as soon as the chromosomes get to decide how evolution progresses to the next upgrade.
It's not Trudeau's fault,he's simply a prisoner of his family and those who see some advantage in the name.
He was probably happy as a teacher, but as a politician.. well, you know.. this class gets to shout back and there's nothing he can do about it.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 12:37 pm
  #155  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
It's a recurring problem with dynasties. The genes never breed true and, unless you're very lucky, those genes that carry important traits like deceit, betrayal and common back stabbing get trashed as soon as the chromosomes get to decide how evolution progresses to the next upgrade.
It's not Trudeau's fault,he's simply a prisoner of his family and those who see some advantage in the name.
He was probably happy as a teacher, but as a politician.. well, you know.. this class gets to shout back and there's nothing he can do about it.
So Trudeau seems to be on the right track ?
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 12:57 pm
  #156  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by Tumbling_Dice View Post
There are many reasons to not vote for him, in my own view, but rank hypocrisy seals the deal. The question should then be NDP, Green or Conservative.
It's a matter of balancing failings and choosing between them. None of them are parties or leaders one would actively vote for. Personally I'm generally supportive of civil liberties so that rules out the Conservatives, I generally want the government to leave people alone; I don't want an abortion law, I don't want to outlaw same-sex marriage and, anyway, I don't feel superior for being white. I was here for Rae days and have no faith that the NDP is better able to organize a piss up in a brewery now than it was then so that rules them out. In any case, when the NDP is mentioned I remember Jack Layton and steam comes out of my ears; I wouldn't have thought one could actively hate a Canadian until he came along. I don't think the Greens would welcome my vote, I drive a V12, so we're back to the Liberals being the least worst despite their himbo.

I don't vote here anyway so Canadian election results are a bit like NFL scores for me; they're mildly interesting but not engaging like US election results or football scores.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 1:01 pm
  #157  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
It's a matter of balancing failings and choosing between them. None of them are parties or leaders one would actively vote for. Personally I'm generally supportive of civil liberties so that rules out the Conservatives, I generally want the government to leave people alone; I don't want an abortion law, I don't want to outlaw same-sex marriage and, anyway, I don't feel superior for being white. I was here for Rae days and have no faith that the NDP is better able to organize a piss up in a brewery now than it was then so that rules them out. In any case, when the NDP is mentioned I remember Jack Layton and steam comes out of my ears; I wouldn't have thought one could actively hate a Canadian until he came along. I don't think the Greens would welcome my vote, I drive a V12, so we're back to the Liberals being the least worst despite their himbo.

I don't vote here anyway so Canadian election results are a bit like NFL scores for me; they're mildly interesting but not engaging like US election results or football scores.
What did you dislike about Layton?

Why not vote in Canada?

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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 1:15 pm
  #158  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
What did you dislike about Layton?
His policies, when a councilor, were directly harmful to me.

I used to be able to walk to the beach, a huge road, locally dubbed "The Jack Layton Parkway" was bulldozed through the neighborhood, displacing the people who lived there for the benefit of commuters. I had to move house to regain beach access; others lost their small houses and had to move to the suburbs or high rises. It was typical pro-developer, pro-car, anti-urban dweller, stuff.

He was also instrumental in banning children from restaurants. At the time we took my autistic daughter to brunch with live bands each Sunday; something we were no longer able to do.

I was glad when he went off to Ottawa and could do no more harm in Toronto (though, of course, he still drew his pay in Toronto so we weren't entirely rid of the burden of him) and even more glad when he was Hovis.

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Why not vote in Canada?
I'm not from here, it's not my business.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 1:47 pm
  #159  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
His policies, when a councilor, were directly harmful to me.

I used to be able to walk to the beach, a huge road, locally dubbed "The Jack Layton Parkway" was bulldozed through the neighborhood, displacing the people who lived there for the benefit of commuters. I had to move house to regain beach access; others lost their small houses and had to move to the suburbs or high rises. It was typical pro-developer, pro-car, anti-urban dweller, stuff.

He was also instrumental in banning children from restaurants. At the time we took my autistic daughter to brunch with live bands each Sunday; something we were no longer able to do.

I was glad when he went off to Ottawa and could do no more harm in Toronto (though, of course, he still drew his pay in Toronto so we weren't entirely rid of the burden of him) and even more glad when he was Hovis.

I'm not from here, it's not my business.
Ok. Didn't know about the Parkway. He seems to have been well regarded outside of YYZ.

Aren't you not from there now? It's been a few years I imagine.





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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 1:54 pm
  #160  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by Tumbling_Dice View Post
Mate, all due respect, I have read some drivel in my time, but that takes some beating.

Hypocrisy is the point here... Trudeau, and those like him (such as social media rent-a-mobs), crucify people for past "mistakes". Trudeau groped some wee lass, didn't he? He has been found in breech of ethical standards, hasn't he? He has seemingly mocked indigenous people, has he not? He sacked two women from his caucus, did he not? And he is an embarrassment on the world stage. He wants to have his cake and eat it re oil pipelines. I am not yet a citizen so, frankly, I do not care. But any suggestion you have that Trudeau is a fit PM over a Conservative, on this basis, is ludicrous.

I could not give a stuff if the Conservatives benefit or not, but it is the Liberal lot that started out with the character attacks and bringing up past "mistakes". There is nothing homphobic, for example, about supporting the traditional view of marriage. Believe it or not, you can have that view and also support the basic human dignity of LGBTQ people.

And, finally, on Scheer will stand by those with racist, homophobic past. Are you standing by Tudeau with his racist past, his misogynistic past and present, and his breech of ethics? Catch yourself on... If Trudeau has set the bar high, he himself needs to meet it at least, or he has to go down like he and his ilk would have others do.
No. No, you really can't.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 2:08 pm
  #161  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Ok. Didn't know about the Parkway. He seems to have been well regarded outside of YYZ.

Aren't you not from there now? It's been a few years I imagine.
It's been a while but I'm always leaving tomorrow.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 2:14 pm
  #162  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
It's been a while but I'm always leaving tomorrow.
I know exactly what you mean
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 4:06 pm
  #163  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by Oakvillian View Post
No. No, you really can't.
On the contrary, I think you can.....just my opinion.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 4:22 pm
  #164  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by macadian View Post
On the contrary, I think you can.....just my opinion.
That's taking the position that people have the same dignity as others but only to a point; they can ride on the bus but only at the back. It may be grudging acceptance that the people have a right to live but it's not respecting their dignity; either they have the same rights as others or they don't.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 5:08 pm
  #165  
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Default Re: Trudeau

Originally Posted by macadian View Post
On the contrary, I think you can.....just my opinion.
So let's turn the clock back and suppose that marriage can only be between a man and a woman.
And marriage enshrines a bunch of legal consequences, to do with taxation, inheritance, and so on.
These consequences pertain for heterosexual married couples even if they're separated, divorced, or in a second or subsequent marriage.
So same-sex couples, by being denied marriage, are being denied equal treatment under the law.
Which does't exactly afford them the same basic human dignity as heterosexual couples.
I don't see how that can be reconciled with "supporting the basic human dignity of LGBTQ people."

But, as you say... just your opinion.
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