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Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by Partially discharged
(Post 8461654)
My 23 fitness permitting Hart,Green,James (in that order) Terry (can't stand the git but he can be good at times), Ferdinand, Brown, A. Cole, Baines, Lescott, Upson J. Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Barry, Hargreaves (hope he gets fit), Walcott, Lennon, A. Young Rooney, Defoe, Crouch, Bent, Agbondlahor (sp?) |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by Partially discharged
(Post 8461340)
And :fingerscrossed: that is the last injury before and including the WC. Without Rooney Englands chances are severely limited.
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Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by rae
(Post 8461118)
not on setanta no, but then i flicked to TSN for the highlights of lyon and they gave a quick update at the end saying he twisted his ankle. must have gone over on it right at the end.
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Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by Partially discharged
(Post 8461654)
And who said english people were pessimistic.
My 23 fitness permitting Hart,Green,James (in that order) Terry (can't stand the git but he can be good at times), Ferdinand, Brown, A. Cole, Baines, Lescott, Upson J. Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Barry, Hargreaves (hope he gets fit), Walcott, Lennon, A. Young Rooney, Defoe, Crouch, Bent, Agbondlahor (sp?) We don't have the best players in the world or the best team. Brazil are the usual favourites and Spain the best rival. I do believe England have a chance because as Greece proved in the Euro's in 2004- if you have a fit team and a good game plan you can give people problems. I think Capello is our best manager for sometime. I also think we have a very good group as long as we win that opening fixture against the USA (England always start poorly). I would like to think we can get to the Semi's but we'll need some rub of the luck. To win a World Cup you usually need an element of luck of anyway- England always get the bad luck but then I am biased =) |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by expatasia
(Post 8461611)
I cannot forgive him for fluffing that one chance we had in the Portugal game in last World Cup.
I'll be honest I don't remember the miss- but he would have only been 17! To dismiss a player on a single missed chance when they are that young is obsurd. Have you forgiven Beckham for the petulant foul on Simeone in 98? |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by James Martindale
(Post 8462748)
I would agree with your squad but I think Capello will take Heskey over Agbonlahor. I also think Hargreaves will be left out and Michael Carrick will go.
I fear that Hargreaves won't make it (I think it may be a mental block he has plus injury issues that are preventing him from playing) and Carrick will skulk in there. If Gary Neville makes it into the squad and plays we are doomed. |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by James Martindale
(Post 8462766)
Bit harsh.
I'll be honest I don't remember the miss- but he would have only been 17! To dismiss a player on a single missed chance when they are that young is obsurd. Have you forgiven Beckham for the petulant foul on Simeone in 98? As for Becks, I forgive him as he had the balls to nail that crucial pen vs Argentina up in Sapporo. Glad he's not fit this time though. England need to use pace if they are to get anywhere. Can't compete in the skill department. |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by Partially discharged
(Post 8462877)
Capello does seem to have a soft spot for Heskey...sure he is unselfish and holds up the ball etc for other strikers, but his scoring record is terrible for a striker. Last I heard he is injured. Agbonlahor has got loads of pace and can put the ball in the net...ditto for Zamora who I would pick over Heskey.
I fear that Hargreaves won't make it (I think it may be a mental block he has plus injury issues that are preventing him from playing) and Carrick will skulk in there. If Gary Neville makes it into the squad and plays we are doomed. I do think Heskey as a player has been vastly underrated in a similar mould to the way Darren Anderton was. The fans never seem to want him to play but multiple England managers pick him because he does a certain job. |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by expatasia
(Post 8461611)
Lamps doesn't really function outside a Chelsea line-up
That's a rate of one every 3.85 games. Fabregas, playing in an Arsenal team more successful than England has played 187 times and scored 32...one in every 5.85 games. For a successful Spain, Fab's record is 5 in 47 or one in 9. Iniesta has 6 in 40 for Spain and just 17 in over 200 for Barcelona. Gerrard's goals/game ratio is almost the same for England as it is for Liverpool. Remarkable given so many believe Lampard and Gerrard function less well in the same team. He scores about 1 in 4.7 games. Zidane and Kaka have better records for France and Brazil but then you'd expect that just from them being more successful than England. Lampard's strike rate for England is actually among the very best for midfielders in their respective teams. Imagine what it might be if he'd taken a few free kicks instead of Beckham. :) |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by BristolUK
(Post 8463008)
20 goals in 77 England games from midfield says different.
That's a rate of one every 3.85 games. Fabregas, playing in an Arsenal team more successful than England has played 187 times and scored 32...one in every 5.85 games. For a successful Spain, Fab's record is 5 in 47 or one in 9. Iniesta has 6 in 40 for Spain and just 17 in over 200 for Barcelona. Gerrard's goals/game ratio is almost the same for England as it is for Liverpool. Remarkable given so many believe Lampard and Gerrard function less well in the same team. He scores about 1 in 4.7 games. Zidane and Kaka have better records for France and Brazil but then you'd expect that just from them being more successful than England. Lampard's strike rate for England is actually among the very best for midfielders in their respective teams. Imagine what it might be if he'd taken a few free kicks instead of Beckham. :) However during the last World Cup one of my more frustrating memories was Lampard wasting good positions by shooting all the time. Infact I remember the TV panel at the time highlighting some rediculous stats about the volume of shots outside the box that he had made. Goals per games is a good stat for strikers but in the midfield more compelling statistics are passes completed and tackles made. Beckham is a better set piece and free kick taker than Lampard. |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by BristolUK
(Post 8463008)
20 goals in 77 England games from midfield says different.
That's a rate of one every 3.85 games. Fabregas, playing in an Arsenal team more successful than England has played 187 times and scored 32...one in every 5.85 games. For a successful Spain, Fab's record is 5 in 47 or one in 9. Iniesta has 6 in 40 for Spain and just 17 in over 200 for Barcelona. Gerrard's goals/game ratio is almost the same for England as it is for Liverpool. Remarkable given so many believe Lampard and Gerrard function less well in the same team. He scores about 1 in 4.7 games. Zidane and Kaka have better records for France and Brazil but then you'd expect that just from them being more successful than England. Lampard's strike rate for England is actually among the very best for midfielders in their respective teams. Imagine what it might be if he'd taken a few free kicks instead of Beckham. :) What is that stat about him having more shots than anyone else at W Cups without a goal resulting? |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Here it is:
He had 24 shots on goal in the tournament, 10 of which were on target, but failed to score a single goal. Didn't he also miss a pen in the dreaded shoot-out? |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by James Martindale
(Post 8462766)
Have you forgiven Beckham for the petulant foul on Simeone in 98?
;) |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by James Martindale
(Post 8463019)
I will start by saying that Lampard definately warrants a place in the England squad.
However during the last World Cup one of my more frustrating memories was Lampard wasting good positions by shooting all the time.
Originally Posted by James Martindale
(Post 8463019)
Beckham is a better set piece and free kick taker than Lampard.
Originally Posted by expatasia
(Post 8463032)
Who did he get them against?
What is that stat about him having more shots than anyone else at W Cups without a goal resulting?
Originally Posted by expatasia
(Post 8463036)
Here it is:
He had 24 shots on goal in the tournament, 10 of which were on target, but failed to score a single goal. Obviously other factors are important in assessing midfield players. But Lampard (as with Gerrard) is known as a midfield player who contributes goals. He's not known for ball winning abilities, clever flicks, defence splitting passes or anything like that. Over simplifying, perhaps, but his game is about stamina and contributing goals. In that respect his contribution for England compares very favourably with Chelsea. Take into account that Chelsea is more successful than England and his contribution to England actually looks a little better. :) |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by BristolUK
(Post 8463046)
Not to be pedantic, but you mean the gentle retaliatory flick from his prone position, having been put on the ground by Simeone's foul when he clattered into Beckham from behind; a far worse offence that he then compounded with simulation and only received a yellow card.
;) But still his red card made life for England very difficult in that match and in the context of my post was in my eyes a harder thing to forgive than Aaron Lennon's miss against Portugal when only 17 years old. My point is you can not write off a footballer based on a single pitch incident in their early career. Although rightly or wrongly it does happen. |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by BristolUK
(Post 8463089)
Yes...his shooting in 2006 was absolutely awful.
Of course. I was just making the point that other players are able to boost their goals totals by taking free kicks while Lampard didn't have that advantage. 77 internationals would have included a fair mix of teams of all quality. One tournament. Five games. What about the other 72? ;) Obviously other factors are important in assessing midfield players. But Lampard (as with Gerrard) is known as a midfield player who contributes goals. He's not known for ball winning abilities, clever flicks, defence splitting passes or anything like that. Over simplifying, perhaps, but his game is about stamina and contributing goals. In that respect his contribution for England compares very favourably with Chelsea. Take into account that Chelsea is more successful than England and his contribution to England actually looks a little better. :) Probably the most dissapointing England player of the last 10 years has been Steven Gerrard- a player who has often taken Liverpool game's by the scruff of the neck. It's difficult to find many performance's of that magnitude for England. Both Gerrard and Lampard should still be in the squad as they are still excellent players. I agree with the comment earlier that Hargreaves would be a great addition but only if he can hit the standard he hit last time out. Having watched Ledley King over the years- knee injuries really kill a player. Both Hargreaves and King would have easily won 50+ England caps with better knees. I like talking about knee injuries as they finished my career in the Aldershot and Hants Sunday Division 2 or was it 3? I wonder if we should have a seperate World Cup Run Up thread to the EPL thread??? Mainly because both are such magnificent talking points at the mo. Novo you are in charge- what do you think? |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by James Martindale
(Post 8463247)
My point is you can not write off a footballer based on a single pitch incident in their early career.
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Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by BristolUK
(Post 8463317)
Or even a few early performances. Look at how important Fletcher is to ManU now.
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Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by expatasia
(Post 8470631)
I assume subscribers to this thread watched the big game yesterday - which Man U players (if any) played anything like decent? (I only caught bits of the match due to the earlier kick-off time).
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Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by expatasia
(Post 8470631)
I assume subscribers to this thread watched the big game yesterday - which Man U players (if any) played anything like decent? (I only caught bits of the match due to the earlier kick-off time).
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Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by expatasia
(Post 8470631)
I assume subscribers to this thread watched the big game yesterday - which Man U players (if any) played anything like decent? (I only caught bits of the match due to the earlier kick-off time).
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Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by expatasia
(Post 8470631)
I assume subscribers to this thread watched the big game yesterday - which Man U players (if any) played anything like decent? (I only caught bits of the match due to the earlier kick-off time).
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Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Have I mentioned that Toon are likely to be promoted this season?
If they can eek out a point against Sheffield Utd at St. James' on Monday it's a done deal. OTOH if they lose the last 6 games 0-2 and Forest win their 5 left 3-0 every time, then Toon would have to do the playoffs. This is so improbable that (being Toon) it's a racing certainty to happen. <no hex no hex no hex> |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Forest play Cardiff 2.5 hours before the Newcastle match. Could be a done deal before the game at St. James' even begins.
You probably know this.
Originally Posted by Novocastrian
(Post 8472187)
If they can eek out a point against Sheffield Utd at St. James' on Monday it's a done deal.
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Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by Greenhill
(Post 8472425)
Forest play Cardiff 2.5 hours before the Newcastle match. Could be a done deal before the game at St. James' even begins.
You probably know this. |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by expatasia
(Post 8472489)
On the FL Show Clem was standing outside the ground with his abacus. Buffoon. Is it really that complicated? They are up. End of.
End of. |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by Novocastrian
(Post 8472187)
Have I mentioned that Toon are likely to be promoted this season?
If they can eek out a point against Sheffield Utd at St. James' on Monday it's a done deal. OTOH if they lose the last 6 games 0-2 and Forest win their 5 left 3-0 every time, then Toon would have to do the playoffs. This is so improbable that (being Toon) it's a racing certainty to happen. <no hex no hex no hex> |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by Novocastrian
(Post 8472546)
You, Sir or Madame, clearly aren't a Toon supporter. If anything can go wrong, it will.
End of. |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by jimf
(Post 8472552)
Mr Ashley's transfer policy seems to be vindicated for this season at least?
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Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by expatasia
(Post 8472556)
I'm a male exiled (expired?) Evertonian, last season I'd have understood that sentiment but not this year. Saw highlights from the w/end. Will Barton stay now, do you think? Where is he length of contract wise? Hope we/they don't get to see his bum at Goodison again.
<condolences on being an evertonian> |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by Novocastrian
(Post 8472567)
I'm not Derek Llambias, so this is just an opinion. If they've stuck with the embarrassment of having Joey on the books so far, I doubt that this is the best time to move him. Leaving aside the question of who the hell would want to take him on, he is a player with proven premiership qualities. They'll need every one of those they can put their hands on.
<condolences on being an evertonian> As for Barton I'm not sure what his proven Premiership qualities are. What's the latest on the Carroll/Taylor spat? Only one of them to stay? |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by expatasia
(Post 8472574)
No prob, if I were back on the Wirral it'd be a daily nightmare but out here...
As for Barton I'm not sure what his proven Premiership qualities are. What's the latest on the Carroll/Taylor spat? Only one of them to stay? I think they'll both stay, but if one had to move I'd get shot of Carroll. He has the potential to make Barton look like a saint and I don't think he's good enough for the top flight anyway. (But what do I know, it's been so long). |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by Novocastrian
(Post 8472583)
Again only opinion, but they're both Geordies who love the Toon (apparently, and less understandably, they both also love the women from there).
I think they'll both stay, but if one had to move I'd get shot of Carroll. He has the potential to make Barton look like a saint and I don't think he's good enough for the top flight anyway. (But what do I know, it's been so long). I've always thought Taylor was overrated, only even seen him in Prem matches getting turned inside out by any attacker with skill or else feigning injury after his own cock-ups. |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by expatasia
(Post 8470631)
I assume subscribers to this thread watched the big game yesterday - which Man U players (if any) played anything like decent? (I only caught bits of the match due to the earlier kick-off time).
Firstly the large LCD TV failed to fire up so my recent purchase of a Rogers HD Box looks like it will have to wait before I recieve any real benefit. Secondly on my 15 year old Phillips TV I watched Spurs defend terribly leading to our Champions League hopes pretty much being killed off. I got no pleasure what so ever from seeing Youness Kaboul in a Spurs shirt again. He has a Ramon Vega like presence at the back. After that it was a particularly miserable Saturday. |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by JamesM
(Post 8473499)
Secondly on my 15 year old Phillips TV I watched Spurs defend terribly leading to our Champions League hopes pretty much being killed off. I got no pleasure what so ever from seeing Youness Kaboul in a Spurs shirt again. He has a Ramon Vega like presence at the back.
After that it was a particularly miserable Saturday. |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by Novocastrian
(Post 8472583)
Again only opinion, but they're both Geordies who love the Toon (apparently, and less understandably, they both also love the women from there).
I think they'll both stay, but if one had to move I'd get shot of Carroll. He has the potential to make Barton look like a saint and I don't think he's good enough for the top flight anyway. (But what do I know, it's been so long). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyEFg...eature=related Carroll seems quite limited and like Ameobi is probably a good championship player but not good enough for the premier league. No doubt there won't be spending on new players so they'll all get the chance to proove this wrong. |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by jimf
(Post 8473753)
Taylor looked quite promising when he first came into the team but he seemed to overdo the "local boy in the team aspect" to a lot of fans irritation in the end. The "sniper" handball was a good one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyEFg...eature=related Carroll seems quite limited and like Ameobi is probably a good championship player but not good enough for the premier league. No doubt there won't be spending on new players so they'll all get the chance to proove this wrong. We're promoted!!!!!!!!!! |
Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
<throws cap in the air>
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Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by BristolUK
(Post 8474032)
<throws cap in the air>
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Re: The Toon Army / EPL thread
Originally Posted by Novocastrian
(Post 8474045)
<leaves w*rk early. goes t'pub>
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