macadian

More fool them.....

Ben W Bell

Please be careful before telling other posters that they spout a lot of garbage. I've had several circles of friends involving South Africans and all say the same thing, from Durban to Cape Town. Being white in South Africa now is just like being black was two decades ago. You are a discriminated against group. I've heard this from many many people, read the news reports. Do you still live in South Africa? Some have been forced out recently and I did have friends who only got into the UK as refugees due to the local government in Durban taking their house and land to give to others, a house they had owned and paid for after working for many years.

You seem to have an axe to grind by saying that all the white made obscene monies at the cost of the rest, and can always disappear with their British passports, something far from the truth. Many white people in South Africa are just as much victims as black people where.

I'm not saying that things in the past where good, far from it, but the discrimination clock has swung round the other way now, which also isn't right. Now it's only equality if you are black, rather than the equality if you are white that it used to be.

Butch Cassidy

Ben,

How much do you actually know about the way Apartheid existed?
Have you tried comparing the system as it exists now with say Uganda under Amin?

You seem to believe that under Apartheid there were only two groups? And those two groups are still the only ones in existence?

Aparthied allowed for 4 groups (at least)
1) Whites
2) Asians (Indian Subcontinent by Majority)
3) Coloureds
4) Blacks.

The Majority ethnic group was (and is) Blacks. Logically with equal representation they will form the bulk of Govt officials (and employers IF they can even yet afford to own 'big' business). Human nature is discriminate towards the group you identify with (look at Obama for godsake).

Soweto (and the other townships) havent disappeared overnight. ALL ethinc groups are suffering still in SA. Many of the officials will still be holding grudges against their 'persecuters' (be they white, asian or coloured. Dont think for a minute that it was only the whites that mistreated the blacks), hopefully with time SA can become the first truly equal and multi-ethnic state in Africa.

As for equality for whites? White Afrikaner yes. But I wont start on that one.

Souvenir

I knew a guy brought up in SA (born there, I think). He told me he was regularly beaten up by "the Dutch kids" on his way home from school.

Novocastrian

I see a great pitch for a new movie classic:

"Dutch Cassidy and the Sun City Kid"

Butch Cassidy

You wanna play the Crotchity old Sherif??

Novocastrian

Not if he can't spell.

Butch Cassidy

Erm thats what I thought BUT I did do a spell check

RubyRose

Do I sense a threat in your response - as this is the normal reaction for somebody who just feeds hype into machinery that will allow it to do so.

I am rather surprised you use the phrase 'refugees' when you refer to a class of people who always retained their British passports.

I have quite often heard the phrase 'You seem to have an axe to grind' when you fail to advance an arguement to support your statements by just hear say and I can safely say if such incidents as you describe occurred in Durban then the international community would have been aware of it immediately. I would say it once more you just spout 'garbage'.

Keep it to yourself and your ignorant circle of people.

Please can you provide me with media sources and tangible evidence apart from hearsay that the situation you describe is the norm in South Africa. If the situation is so dire in South Africa - may i ask why is it considered one of the most economically developed countries in Africa, allowing it to compete on the same basis or footing as your so called developed European countries. Can you substantiate your reasoning as to why it was seen fit to include South Africa in the G20 summit.

To be truthful - all these questions are rhetorical as I am really not interested in your response. You have basically lowered the tone of the BE forum through your sheer ignorance. I would say it once more be mindful of what you say and how you say it.

DaveLovesDee

You've given your views, Ben's given his. Both don't have to be wrong.

DaveLovesDee

To add to my other post. There have been widescale problems in Sri Lanka for the last 26 years, yet very little is heard about this in the media or from protesters until the Tigers are losing their battle. History has always been, and always will be, written by the victors or their media.

A black person in South Africa will probably view the current situation there differently to a white Afrikaaner.

RubyRose

Quite correct but exaggeration is unacceptable - think about that, and thank you for your analysis.

Ruby

DaveLovesDee

If the people who tell me similar things about their experiences are exagerrating, how would I know, and how would me reporting what they've said be exaggeration?

I've thought about it, and I see no reason for these people to exaggerate or lie to me about their experiences. I can accept their experience doesn't necessarily apply to every white South African, but I also doubt theirs is an isolated incident.

RubyRose

At least they are lucky they can walk into western countries especially Britain without any questions asked - but bona fide refugees and asylum seekers who are of a different colour and race are turned away and this is my personal experience. Perhaps you need to think a bit more about the element of truth and that there are two sides to a coin. At the height of apartheid did you see many black South Africans in the west - the answer to that question is a definite No. White people just cannot handle majority rule and the fact that they are no longer the privileged class. Jobs are being allocated on a fair basis -hopeful on merit and an attempt is being made to create a more planer playing field.

Would you accept my experiences - I am certain you will not and I am sure you will not be interested.

It is about time the average White South African who was too used to being handed everything on a plate accepted that there is such a thing as competition driven by fair competition and skills and knowledge.

Would you condone the practice of job restriction - I am sure the likes of you will. I don't have to expand any further as I can see your line of argument and I am quite disappointed that the majority on this board habour innate racist thoughts attitudes and segregationist attitudes.

I will say once more exaggeration is not the way forward but to develop appropriate knowledge and skills to gain competitive advantage - not to moan and whinge and exaggerate. It was fine for us to be kept out in the cold for years whilst a small majority reaped the benefits - Now i dont see the likes of you condemning that.

It is a sad day when people like you who themselves are emigres talk this way - I hope you never face any discriminatory practice in your chosen country i.e. Canada and if you do - Please don't say that it was because you were or are different.

For me South Africa is a beautiful and wonderful country however it holds terrible memories of torture both mental and physical .....only condemned by amnesty international not governments in the west. This is personal and i leave it as that and i will not respond any further to your posts.

I appreciate the forum and have made very many good friends and contacts and would like to keep it that way as i look forward to their support.

Ruby

DaveLovesDee

I'm sorry to hear that life wasn't great for you in SA, and I seriously hope it's improved and that you're much happier. Good luck in your future.