Shard

Evidently not.

dbd33

Evidently? It's just a guess that he would have done better, he may have garnered more votes than Hillary over all but is he popular in Florida? We don't know.

Shard

The evidence is that Hilary lost! Agreed, that doesn't mean Bernie would have done better, but there is a possibility he could have built more momentum or made more a mockery of Trump. He was likeable and not tainted by scandal and innuendo in the way Hilary was. But, of course, all water under the bridge now.

BristolUK

Or women that he hasn't given the chance to say yes or no, he's just grabbed them.

dbd33

In the end that doesn't seem to have mattered. He's willing to be anti-choice, pro-gun, anti-foreigner and that's enough; it doesn't matter who or what he is.

dave_j

“The President proposes, Congress disposes”

A maxim yet to be tested. I suspect that Trump understood this very well and found himself able to say whatever was needed to convince a tired and angry electorate to vote for him. He may be able to use his executive powers to forward some promises but the endless tug of war between the White House and the Hill won't stop simply because they're all republicans. I suspect that he'll find the swamp is a little too deep, even for him... if, in fact, he manages to climb out of it himself.

To misquote James Carville who was Bill Clinton's strategist, "It's the 'sleaze driven establishment', stupid"

MarkG

Americans on left and right were looking for an outsider to vote for, and Sanders would basically have been Trump-Lite. I think he'd have taken a lot of Trump's support in the traditionally Democrat areas that Trump won, and many of those who 'opted out' and voted third-party on both sides.

To me, it's pretty clear that he would have won if he'd been nominated. There are just too many people who had to hold their nose to vote for Trump who would have felt OK, or even happy, voting for Sanders.

I was reading Michael Moore this morning (one of the few lefties who predicted that Trump was going to win weeks ago), and he was basically saying that they lost because they nominated an establishment stooge, and they have to do to the Democrat party what the right just did to the Republicans.

Oink

Really? Maybe you should offer your services to the one the many polling organizations or political consultancy firms in the US. I'm sure they're pay you a high six figure salary for your unique and accurate insights.

MarkG

It's not exactly hard to predict the outcome better than those 'polling organizations and political consultancy firms' did. Most of them were still predicting Clinton would win on the morning of the election, and she ended up as the worst-performing Democrat since Dukakis.

As I said above, even Michael Moore figured out she was going to lose weeks ago.

If the last year has proven anything, it's that political polls today aren't worth the bytes they're printed on.

Shard

Yes Michael Moore has been pretty impressive in judging the national mood. I've been listening to him these past few weeks, wondering if he was getting paranoid, as the rest of the media was suggesting a slam dunk for Hilary. I guess not.

MarkG

The difference is that most of the media could honestly say 'I don't know anyone who would vote for Trump!' and mean it. If they met a working-class American, they'd shout 'Redneck!' and run away.

For all his faults, Moore knows and understands working-class Americans, and why they would vote for Trump. It was his tweets after the debates that first convinced me Trump might actually have a chance.

BTW, here's an interesting article on how Trump won:

Trump’s Data Team Saw a Different America—and They Were Right - Bloomberg

This comment seems particularly appropriate:

'He had an unwitting ally. “Hillary Clinton was the perfect foil for Trump’s message,” says Steve Bannon, his campaign chief executive officer. “From her e-mail server, to her lavishly paid speeches to Wall Street bankers, to her FBI problems, she represented everything that middle-class Americans had had enough of.”'

dbd33

The comment, far from being appropriate, seems to contradict the rest of your post as it refers to middle-class Americans when the rest of the post concerns the working-class.

MarkG

Anyone who isn't in the 1% is working-class these days.

And this is just freaking hilarious:

How the Hillary Clinton campaign deliberately “elevated” Donald Trump with its “pied piper” strategy - Salon.com

The Clinton campaign discussing how they should actively promote Donald Trump as a way to push the Republicans to the right and ensure Clinton would win.

Stinkypup

Ignore Trump for a minute or two- I loved some of these photos

The White House’s Pete Souza Has Shot Nearly 2M Photos of Obama, Here are 55 of His Favorites - Album on Imgur

caretaker

White House staff watching Trump meet Obama.