Shard

There is no surprise in muslims killing muslims. Look at IS and the whole sordid history of the religion.

Oakvillian

For a more considered look (warning: it's quite a long read) at the circumstances that provide opportunities for religious fundamentalists, here's a very interesting review of the history of science and its subsequent demise in the Islamic world: Why the Arabic World Turned Away from Science - The New Atlantis

During the "Golden Age" of middle-eastern knowledge, Baghdad in particular was a centre not only of empire (the Abbasid caliphate) but also of learning, discovery, discussion, and a vast repository of information. Much of what we now know of ancient Greek learning, for example, comes to us through translations into Arabic during the 8th to 12th centuries, while Europe was wallowing in the Dark Ages. The fundamentals of early modern mathematics (algebra, algorithm), chemistry (alchemy, alkali, alcohol), astronomy (nadir, zenith) are peppered with Arabic words.

What happened, over the course of 600 years or so, to change the Islamic approach to science so radically? Why did enlightenment stop, what was it that allowed radical fundamentalist preachers, many of them barely educated beyond a knowledge of the scripture of the Koran, to dominate the headlines? Why do so few universities in Arabic and other Islamic countries produce world-class research in any significant field?

The decline of the Abbasid sphere of influence seems to have a lot to do with it: the Mongol invasions of the eastern half of the empire; the Crusades and the reconquering of Spain diminishing Abbasid influence in the western extremities. But also the growth in influence of the Ash'Ari school of Arabic religious philosophy. It is the Ash'Ari view of the world as ordered purely by the will of Allah rather than through any natural laws, that permits such fundamentalist attitudes as those espoused by Boko Haram in Nigeria, or the Taliban in Pakistan and Afghanistan. And it is the dominant religious philosophy of the Sunni branch of Islam, especially of the Wahhabist sect.

So there has been a natural progression over 700 years or so. Is it stoppable? Reversible? Not easily, and not quickly, it seems clear.

Shard

An excellent read, although it simply confirms that Islamic thought is incompatible with Western thought. Is it stoppable? Not through accommodation favoured by some Western liberals. According to the article Ash'Ari Islam etc. is antithetical to rationality, it doesn't want to know; it demands that god's will causes everything and that human reason is meaningless. Such sentiments are often communicated by fundamentalists in interviews, and it would appear they are not just presenting their own warped views but the established orthodoxy of their branch of their faith. Anyone rational should reject Islam, it is the worst of the religions.

JamesM

They tracked the brothers into a forest apparently. Special Forces in persuit.

I don't suspect they'll be coming out alive.

caretaker

Or they might have gone straight through the village and be back in Paris by now, wherever they are they'll be keeping their heads down until they can act since their pictures are everywhere.

Greenhill

Prior to recognising their faces, I'd imagine the first thought made by someone observing them, would be regarding the AK47s (or the RPGs strapped to their backs).

caretaker

Well, they did set that precedent. If all they wanted was to go out in a blaze of glory and be martyrs they could of just waited a minute or so at Charlie Hebdo, I think they either want another soft infidel target or are trying hard to get to Syria or Iraq and join the fight there.

magnumpi

Unusual that they escaped alive, I agree they may have further plans to force us to beleive That their Islamic God is great

Greenhill

Just listening to some "experts" discussing how "professional" the terrorists have been:

They didn't blow themselves up, implication is that they had an escape plan
They are wearing body armour, implying they wanted to survive
They made a sloppy get-away, suggesting they didn't really have a good plan for after the attack on the magazine
They know how to handle their weapons
They believe in an invisible man that "lives in the sky"
They make love to goats (usually as a threesome)

BristolUK

We all thought that about the Moncton shooter.

Shard

Why wouldn't they come out alive? Unless they get into a gun battle I think the French police will play it by the rules. If they wanted to martyr themselves in a blaze of glory they would have done so yesterday.

caretaker

Their chances of successfully escaping from another attack like they did yesterday must be less because the element of surprise is gone. The posse has their horses out and saddled, so to speak. What are potential targets? police station, government building, landmark, girls school, theatre, bar....... If they have a cache of supplies somewhere good they could bide their time. No news regarding the questioning of their families so maybe they didn't leave any clues. If ISIS knew these guys were going to do this they'd bend over backwards to give them help in advance and bring them back as heroes. They might already be gone.

Shard

They did seem like a professional hit squad.

Oink

I don't why they keep banging on about the tenets of Islam infringing on women' rights. It seems unfair that while men can't drink booze the women are often stoned.

JamesM

That's soft Canadians.

This one is being handled by french Special Forces now.