Oakvillian

A common murder can have many motives. That doesn't make it any less murderous, and I don't see a delusion in denying "legitimacy" by dressing it up as somehow honourable because the motivation was religious. In much the same way that so-called honour killings should never be referred to as such in court proceedings: they are murders, pure and simple, and to dress them up as something else diminishes the horror of what was done by providing some sort of excuse of righteousness.

"I was hopped up on LSD" is no less excusable a defence than "I was hopped up on Jihad." It's still murder, and should not be allowed to hide behind a veil - or perhaps a niqab - of religious extremism. That is all I was trying to say.

Greenhill

12 dead, 11 injured, 4 critical.

Apparently the getaway involved 3 or 4 shootouts with police on the way (where injuries occurred) before they were forced to abandon the vehicle and make a run for it.

Rosie Lee

Those that do this are not true Muslims. Islam is a peaceful faith. These are just killers trying to hide behind a banner!

magnumpi

Yeh we keep saying this, yet more and more so called peaceful Muslims come out of the wood work and kill in the name of Alah

This time they yelled "God is great" prior to shooting

Yorkiechef

How naive. They come from countries where it is quite acceptable to stone someone or if you like murder someone for not agreeing to their religion.

They come to Europe in there thousands by ship, by road, by any means, what they find they do not like and this is the result. Now they will try and change what has been the Christian norm for 500 years. It will get worse before it ever, if ever, it gets better.

I truly believe that our soldiers were fighting this battle for the last 10 or 12 years in Afghan and Iraq. Now this battle is coming to the streets of Europe and it is the police that will have to take on this fight. My prayers are with them, be under no illusion, this is going to be very unpleasant.

I've said my bit, if you want to ban me for free speech - go ahead.

Shard

Too many people "hopped up on Jihad" these days.

Honour killing may imply some legitimacy amongst those that condone it, but it's nothing but a sickly oxymoron in any Western court. I think it's a good term as it neatly demonstrates the antithetical beliefs about the act.

Shirtback

Feeling sick. Just sick.

bats

That's a bit over the top, Rosie Lee never said anything about your right to having your opinion she was just making a point and one that I agree with. Blaming all muslims is a mistake. Not all muslims come from countries where stoning and beheading is an accepted punishment and blaming all just serves to isolate and push more over to the extremists.

Yorkiechef

Bats you are entitled to your views. You and I both know there are peaceful people of all faiths, but let me just point out that we continue to turn our head when these things happen, these folk are often educated people, remember the nhs doctor trying to blow up Glasgow airport? I am sure he was a peaceful lovely man that didn't know better, hundreds have travelled to Syria for their jihad, were they all peaceful also? I've seen there peaceful protests when cutting the heads off aid workers, journalists, folk from tribes that follow the Shia branch and not the Sunni branch, please have your view, I wouldn't want to restrict your views in any way, the same way I wouldn't want to restrict those peaceful cartoonists laying in le morgue! However, the nutters that have done this also have their views and they are not peaceful. Can we all stop ignoring what is happening in the world, I'm not promoting hatred, I am just pointing that this is just the thin end of the wedge. I wish I was wrong, but I suspect I am not.

Rosie Lee

Whether you are wrong or right, does not matter, speaking like that does exactly what your saying your not doing.

ExKiwilass

i don't think anyone can claim to know what a 'true muslim' is - that assumes there's some over-arching authority in Islam with a list of 'true muslim' attributes that you can compare people's actions to and say " yes, true muslim" or "no, crazy wingnut" . There's no such authority and many different schools of thought in Islam.

ever read the koran? plenty of violence in it. bottom line is that people can interpret it however they want, depending on what interpretation they believe in. it would be more fair to say islam is a religion (true) which can be used to motivate violence OR peace.

but pretending islam is completely without violence, and also, hasn't had a history of war, and dudes like this are just wingnuts is dangerously naive imo.

what's interesting to me is how professional this killing was. wonder if a foreign government behind it.

BristolUK

JamesM

This post is terrible on a number of levels.

Yorkiechef

Ok James, let me know what is on your mind. Let me know what all these levels are old boy. Perhaps you can educate me, f@@@ I am so bloody angry with the, well it's bad, but it's not affecting me attitude. Ignore it, it is just a few radicals, when we catch them it will go away attitude. I wonder what the folk affected by this act are feeling, pretty numb, upset perhaps we can't even comprehend it. Thousands in New York, thousands in Syria, shit is here and it ain't ending anytime soon.
Right, say what you like, I'm dropping off this thread.

MarkG

Reports elsewhere say two of the people involved had just returned from Syria. If so, they've probably had plenty of practice at killing.