Originally Posted by Pretty Flowers (Post 9738704)

I've got a lot of aquantainces and a few good friends who are part of the Occupy Toronto movement. I think that some of the folk have good intentions, but camping in a park, hooping and practicing poi doesn't really cut it as far as I'm concerned.

Via Facebook, I've been invited to any number of Occupy Toronto events, mostly it's fair to say organised around protecting the park and preventing their eviction. When I ask what they're specifically campaigning about, and what they propose in the place of what they don't like, I'm met with a deafening silence. Oh, and the suggestion that I come to the park to find out....

Why should I waste my time visiting a ton of sketched out hippies who are unable to articulate what they want; other than they think that life is not fair. Personally I figured that out early on.

I'm developing a distinct dislike of the protest in general, as to me it smacks of the kind of entitlement and expectations that a lot of people seem to have these days. To make positive changes you need to do a little bit more than sitting on your arse in a park for a few months.

I've actively demonstrated against things that I felt strongly in the past. None of those demonstrations included promoting the use of illegal drugs, anti social behaviour or not needing to engage in debate with people that you need to influence.If I sound angry, I am, because these work shy fops have put the cause of social equality back several years as far as I'm concerned.

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 9739451)

Worst post evah! All of these frothing descriptions of the Occupy movement show complete lack of understanding of both the point and the process.

In fact, it's not a "protest" at all, it's more a "witness" to the ludicrous disparity in late 20/21C western sham "democracies" whereby the crooks in Wall street can destroy the lives of huge numbers of working stiffs (who they've brainwashed into thinking that they're "middle class") and then continue to be paid millions for it.

It's not the 1% that's the problem, rather the 0.1% or even the 0.01% who control everything from Wall Street/Bay Street to the politicians of both/all parties in NA. Europe and elsewhere.

The movement doesn't have to propose an alternative, it doesn't have to accomplish anything at all except to grow. Growing is what its doing rather nicely.

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 9739451)

Worst post evah! All of these frothing descriptions of the Occupy movement show complete lack of understanding of both the point and the process.

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 9739451)

Worst post evah! All of these frothing descriptions of the Occupy movement show complete lack of understanding of both the point and the process.

In fact, it's not a "protest" at all, it's more a "witness" to the ludicrous disparity in late 20/21C western sham "democracies" whereby the crooks in Wall street can destroy the lives of huge numbers of working stiffs (who they've brainwashed into thinking that they're "middle class") and then continue to be paid millions for it.

It's not the 1% that's the problem, rather the 0.1% or even the 0.01% who control everything from Wall Street/Bay Street to the politicians of both/all parties in NA. Europe and elsewhere.

The movement doesn't have to propose an alternative, it doesn't have to accomplish anything at all except to grow. Growing is what its doing rather nicely.

Originally Posted by Oink (Post 9739513)

Still nothing much will change until there are bloody heads on posts.

Here's are some truncated causes/catalysts for the French Revolution. See any similarities?

1) The direct cause of the Revolution was the chaotic state of government finance.

2) Director general of finances Jacques Necker vainly sought to placate public confidence.

3) French participation in the American Revolution had increased the huge debt, and Necker's successor, Charles Alexandre de Calonne, called an Assembly of Notables (1787), hoping to avert bankruptcy by inducing the privileged classes to share in the financial burden.

4) This gap between the wealthy and the poor created resentment. Those at the bottom saw the wealthy grow increasingly richer, while they got nothing.

Originally Posted by macadian (Post 9739557)

Glad to see the 'Comrades' are connecting....:p

Originally Posted by Alan2005 (Post 9739584)

Are you really so conditioned by the false left/right divide that you can't see what's going on? Do you have savings? A fixed income plan for retirement? If yes then you ought not to be mocking these people as you are being stolen from and you should be angry about it.

Edit: really too many reallys

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 9739451)

Worst post evah! All of these frothing descriptions of the Occupy movement show complete lack of understanding of both the point and the process.

In fact, it's not a "protest" at all, it's more a "witness" to the ludicrous disparity in late 20/21C western sham "democracies" whereby the crooks in Wall street can destroy the lives of huge numbers of working stiffs (who they've brainwashed into thinking that they're "middle class") and then continue to be paid millions for it.

It's not the 1% that's the problem, rather the 0.1% or even the 0.01% who control everything from Wall Street/Bay Street to the politicians of both/all parties in NA. Europe and elsewhere.

The movement doesn't have to propose an alternative, it doesn't have to accomplish anything at all except to grow. Growing is what its doing rather nicely.

Originally Posted by London Mike (Post 9739644)

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news...test-for-today

If you read and believe this post then some would say it is a protest. Indeed, many of those involved themselves see it as a protest - against income inequality and those evil bastards on WS as you point out. But yes, I get the 'witness' ideology too.

I'm not frothy mouthed and I said I was sympathetic to the cause, but I still don't think much can or will change. I think something different needs to happen with Occupy more than this subliminal, deft 'witnessing' that is happening now (and being pulled apart by authorities in some places). My mum was at Greenham Common and I went as a wee boy a few times. The concept there was powerful - women, fearless, up against a nuclear armament camp full of tough guys. It was effective more than in just a 'witness' sense. It had focus, it had consistency and it had real penetration. For me, Occupy needs to change direction or get some coherence to make any real impact.

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 9739688)

Just because some two-bit reporter from the Orlando local paper calls it a "protest" doesn't cut much ice with me. Or I suspect with you.

I don't think it has to change or that it will change anything unless or until resonances are struck within the broader aspects of societies. Ok. But as I said, all it has to do right now is to keep growing which it's doing rather well.

And, due respect to your mother, but despite being focussed, Greenham Common didn't get a result. Do you think these layabouts haven't learnt anything since then?

Originally Posted by Alan2005 (Post 9739511)

(that smiley is going to get old fast)

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 9739688)

Just because some two-bit reporter from the Orlando local paper calls it a "protest" doesn't cut much ice with me. Or I suspect with you.

I don't think it has to change or that it will change anything unless or until resonances are struck within the broader aspects of societies. Ok. But as I said, all it has to do right now is to keep growing which it's doing rather well.

And, due respect to your mother, but despite being focussed, Greenham Common didn't get a result. Do you think these layabouts haven't learnt anything since then?

Originally Posted by el_richo (Post 9739700)

:goodpost:

Originally Posted by London Mike (Post 9739699)

Au contraire Prof Novo, Greenham Common Peace Camp was a highly effective protest:

http://www.greenhamwpc.org.uk/

Originally Posted by Alan2005 (Post 9739779)

I sympathised with their cause at the time, but I don't think they personally achieved the result; that would be the soviet union collapsing in on itself did that. Some people credit reagan for this, but I think it would have happened anyway regardless of what us policy was.

Originally Posted by London Mike (Post 9739817)

If Occupy had just remained a Wall St and possibly London protest against financial institutions then perhaps it might've been just as effective. Time will tell. My view is that its growth around the world has diluted it's impact, ironically. Let's see ...

Originally Posted by GavinR (Post 9739856)

A point of view about the freeloaders:

http://www.rickysplace.com/player/1031-11.html

Originally Posted by GavinR (Post 9739856)

A point of view about the freeloaders:

http://www.rickysplace.com/player/1031-11.html

Originally Posted by GavinR (Post 9739856)

A point of view about the freeloaders:

http://www.rickysplace.com/player/1031-11.html

Originally Posted by London Mike (Post 9739702)

Unless you're being ironic you clever sod.

Originally Posted by Souvy (Post 9740501)

He should be invited to the December meeting in The Yard.

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 9740507)

I can't look at it from here:

"This Websense category is filtered: Tasteless."

I suppose that's a reference to the fellow's "Flock of Seagulls" hair do.

Originally Posted by Souvy (Post 9740526)

For no obvious reason, I am pleased to report that I have spent my morning so far discussing slags with a bloke in Boston. And, I'm paying him for it.

Originally Posted by rodderzzz (Post 9733250)

My OH step brother has been working at Occupy Victoria in the kitchen that they've got set up there, he said that the whole occupy thing has become a joke that not even the protesters believe in. He was saying how the camp had become a small parody of the real world, in that most there were unemployed, drug users, homeless, and a small portion of them are employed and also doing all the work on the camp. They've also built some sort of wall around the kitchen and food tents because others kept stealing from there. My OH made the point that that is also similar to the real world, where the 1% have protected the wealth in the camp, and that maybe that's the way the world has to work for society to function. I think he's given up now! lol

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 9740536)

I'm managing a complex recovery involving disparate platforms and technologies, I pimped a small job and I'm about to focus on the major issue of the day; how many screws, how many nails and how much glop for the 70 sheets of drywall we intend to pick up this weekend?

Originally Posted by Souvy (Post 9740544)

That's a lot of drywalling!

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 9740551)

It's to be a large-ish bathroom with an elaborate ceiling.

Originally Posted by Souvy (Post 9740576)

Large-ish?

How about very large? I hope you're not using regular drywall around the bath/shower.

Originally Posted by ireland2canada (Post 9740584)

Drywall, around the bath? No, no. If the room is large enough to need 70 sheets of drywall, we will place the bath in the middle and have water poured by a couple of loin-clothed servants. Thus eliminating any splashing of walls.

Originally Posted by Souvy (Post 9740526)

The hairdo is certainly tasteless. Many of the comments also but many people will agree with him. I wonder who sponsors him?

For no obvious reason, I am pleased to report that I have spent my morning so far discussing slags with a bloke in Boston. And, I'm paying him for it.

Originally Posted by Alan2005 (Post 9740660)

For the crazy people on this thread who don't seem to understand what injustice is:-

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...louts-20111117

Originally Posted by Alan2005 (Post 9740660)

For the crazy people on this thread who don't seem to understand what injustice is:-

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...louts-20111117

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 9740693)

Not everyone that has lots of money has done so dishonestly.

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 9740693)

I don't believe that many are displaying a lack of understanding of injustice, merely, whether the efforts of the various occupy movements will achieve anything.

I have to admit that I am with Oink on this one. Setting up tents will achieve little, beheading those responsible will achieve much more.

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 9740693)

I have to admit though that I still object to the 1% - 99% thing. Not everyone that has lots of money has done so dishonestly. Some have had a great idea and exploited it to the max. Tarring them all with the same brush is, IMO, a little disingenous.

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 9740711)

Well, yes, the rich get richer and the poor get the blame. Yes, the rich are as corrupt and dishonest as the poor. Yes, people are shit. But, so what? Surely no one thinks Fred Goodwin is a nice chap, no one thinks the law applies equally to rich and poor. By kicking people out of parks and hogging the space the protestors are just showing that, with the little power they have, they can hurt a few people, if they had more power they could hurt more people. It's always so.

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 9740715)

I'll give you that but I think you'll struggle to find someone who has done so deservingly.

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 9740821)

Other than that, I have no idea how one determines the scale of deserving.

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 9740821)

Are you proposing communism?