I read those posts quite differently. No one was rude. (If anything it would be you by your uncalled for use of bad language). Go read the comments once again. But this time do it carefully. Posters here are expressing their views just as you have done.

I too do not feel that Muslims are being demonized. Demonized is a very strong word and should be used sparingly.

Judy, case in point, there is a heck of a difference between politely disagreeing, as in the instance above, and outright denial of a person's reality.

And this is still ongoing. Here is a link to a story, a few days old, about a person who converted to Islam who had very evil plans.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6122270.stm

Where are those Muslim leaders who, one would reasonably expect, should be marching in the streets condemning and repudiating such acts? One does not hear of that happening much anywhere in the world. And what of Islam being fundamentally a peaceful religion which I believe it is?

Sadly, I recall, just after 9-11, that one Arab journalist had written 'Not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims'. This was written in the context of the atrocities commited in the US that day.

I don't believe the future for Muslims, whether it be in the UK or in other Western countries, is all that dire. But, if the truth be told, times will be tough for as long as Islam is linked to terrorism, whether it be perception or reality, whether it be deserved or not.

Thanks Judy for understanding where i am coming from

You mean Nick the Greek.

You obviously have a massive guilt complex about your albeit passive role in South Africa's aparteid which is colouring your opinions about British muslims and the problems they face. If you actually lived here you would know how biased BBC news has become since the departure of Greg Dyke. BBC news is a bit of a joke really, you should try a newspaper like the Times instead - much more balanced. As for basing your opinion on comments made on these forums, you are hearing about GB problems from people who are leaving because they are disillusioned about GB. I read a lot of sense here about what is going on in GB but I also read some unbelievable rubbish.

Finally, I must be wrong in thinking that you are comparing the prejudice faced by black South Africans during aparteid with the prejudice faced by muslims in Britain today? Britain is full of prejudice where ever you go - Catholics against Protestants in Scotland, middle classes against white trash, Welsh against English, Asians against whites in inner cities, countryside folk against townies. The list is endless but you have to be here to realise that most of it is harmless which aparteid certainly wasn't.

Can I refer you back to the post that Rizwan made that I disagreed with.

Hardly "denying this person's reality" is it?

Disagreeing with a person about what might happen in the future? "Denying this person's reality"?

Rizwan made a comment where he feared that Muslims in Britain might one day face the same treatment as Jews did in Germany in the 30s.

Have we had our version of Kristallnacht? Are Muslim homes being ransacked by rampaging mobs? Have mosques been razed to the ground all over the country in a single week?



Judy, I have not lived your life. I did not have your upbringing. I could not come anywhere close to a full understanding of your feelings.

But if you carry on projecting YOUR guilt for what you saw in your upbringing onto every other white middle-class person who ever dares to speak about the treatment of Muslims in this country then you are causing the very reaction that Rizwan (quite rightly) described.

Every other week there is some story of how wishy-washy, liberal, bed-wetting bleeding-hearts are attempting social change through the most ridiculous of ways (changing the lyrics to "baah, baah, black sheep", renaming Christmas as Winterval, taking Christianity out of Christmas stamps, etc ...... sources available on request).

I suspect it is a way of soothing collective guilt over the role of the British Empire and that in this "multi-cultural" (for want of a better word) society we should try and reflect the other cultures out of all proportion to their proportion in the population as a whole.

Your response to my post echoes this sentiment perfectly. I could paraphrase it as "I'm not going to make the slightest attempt to understand your comment but HOW DARE YOU DISAGREE WITH A MUSLIM?? YOU MUST BE A RACIST!!" ... only with worse language.

Rizwan, we are being fed this line over and over and over again. By the government, by the courts, by the police, by the education system. It started at some point in the early 80s when it was just "loony-left" councils. It's now reached the point where the school I work has an ethnic population of 11% (I've counted) yet half of our marketing material must involve a "non-white" face to appeal to the "ethnic community".

In my opinion, the constant references to Muslims in the mainstream media is just the backlash against these policies. 9/11 and 7/7 didn't help, but they didn't cause it either. It's been around a lot longer and the target hasn't always been Muslims either.

Then again Judy, I'm not a Muslim so what the ***** do I know, eh?

very well said...........everything in proportion.

Hey New World Man, I agree with what you are saying especially when it comes down to making ethnic people more comfortable...

To tell you the truth changing names such as christmas, the poem bah bah black sheep etc just makes ethnic people feel more uncomfortable.

We should leave these age old traditions the way they are, i think that would make everyone feel much better and more comfortable...

It's not just Britain though, is it?

In Montreal, today it's the Jews. Tomorrow it may be the Muslims.

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazett...20a395&k=67104

This is an ancient nursery rhyme with no racial connotations- only political, and there are black sheep around - it is a breed.
Apparently some local authority schools have attempted to change the word black- just shows how ridiculously stupid they are- not even being politically correct in my book. Ethnic people feeling uncomfortable- they are very sensible and much more intelligent than the bureaucrats making such decisions.

Don't you remember the hysterical political correctness of the 90's where black boards suddenly had to be referred to as chalk boards and we couldn't say black bin liners as it was deemed derogatory to black people? We finally woke up to the fact that it was really damaging not to criticise black youngsters (boys especially) for their academic performance and now we have white working class boys leading the way on poor performance in schools.

I'd say, yeah, you are wrong. Judy in Calgary expressed her point very clearly, in fact she expressed her point so very clearly, I'm surprised that you (and others) have not understood it.

What an excellent well-reasoned post. No hysteria, just the facts!

I do recall a news item here in Canada where some bod in the UK insisted the "Baa Baa blacksheep" nursery rhyme be changed to "Baa Baa RAINBOW sheep" - I thought someone was having me on, but looks like it was true! I guess we must deny that there are black sheep at all. Or any colour of anything at all.

These days we seem to have to walk on eggshells and thoroughly dissect our words before we speak or write. No more spontaneous debate or discussion. If we say anything remotely in disagreement with someone else's beliefs we are instantly labelled with a name such as 'bigot' or 'racist'. The PC brigade must take some responsibility for this, but far too many people just will not listen to any other point of view, or rage that the person is wrong just because they differ. Do we always have to be right? There are always many sides to an argument or opinion. We have lost so much by not being able to have a friendly discussion and sharing of ideas. Rather, it seems to be the intent of some to ram their opinions down other's throats.

Now, I have been very successful in finding cards this year that cheerily state "Merry Christmas" - that had been banned previously so there must be a relaxing of the PC rules!! Now if we could just get back to some of our other traditions such as Christmas carols in the schools (who can deny getting a lump in their throat listening to 5 year olds singing "Away in a Manger"? Such a pity that we've had to bury our traditions just in case we offend someone who chose to come to a country that held those traditions. We should be willing to recognise and celebrate each other's traditions.

Must be a delight being a student in your school when one of the teachers is chippy enough about race/religion to take the time out to count all the ethnic minorities so they can bitch about them on the internet. Do you keep a special list of all you've counted? You know, so you can use it when the BNP comes to power - all those "non-white" faces from the "ethnic community".