Still waiting....

I'm planning a project for later this year where I might have to write a routine that multiplies two numbers together (in assembly language for an embedded system where the MCU does not have a multiply instruction).

But that's the point. I didn't learn them in fourth grade. I think it was touched upon in 6th grade right before the standardised testing (EQAO) was happening, but (other than the standardised test) no formal assessment/rote memorisation was done.

I'm not kidding.

Yes I suppose it was. But I had to fit a rather complex instrument control protocol and related data analysis into about 25 kB of 8-bit space.

Needs must.

Forgot about those "bits".

So learn them now. If you want to succeed, you'll need drive and ambition, and part of that will be recognising gaps in your knowledge and rectifying it.

All it'll take is a tiny bit of study, but if 6 & 7 year old kids here can know their 12 times table off by heart, you sure as hell can.

You could even get one of those 'fun' CDs that have them as songs and play it incessantly in the car. Of course, that will mean your parents want to throw themselves out of the car window and drag their heads along the road just for something else to listen to, but they'll get over it. I speak from experience.

Ah well that's where your patents come in....neither school system has taught it in school but they expect children to know it via their parents. My son knows his through us. Great app although probably a little childlike for you Gozit but "Percy Parker". Times tables to catchy music...note we let my son use the ipad and apps like this as well as quizzing him in car etc.

Toronto Bay Street type, which would be, excluding CEO's of publicly traded companies .....

- A senior level Banker (education + years & years of proven track record & solid performance),

- A Lawyer (again years of education, junior starter making $40K -$60k, years of graf & grind) likely 10% make over $250k who are partners or trial lawyers. Most have huge expenses & overhead

- An Accountant (CA qualified) if really good, by the age of 40 could be a CFO making $250k +++ with stock options

- A stockbroker - basic education, suit type, fast talker, super sharp sales type, BS'er, takes the securities course, works up flogs dead horses or selling penny stocks.

https://www.csi.ca/student/en_ca/home.xhtml

- The financial planner (or insurance broker) Education & certification needed. hard sell sales people will flog you anything to make money

Then there is the ...

- The a job in the medical profession (Nurse, Dentist, Doctor). starts out low salary $40k - $60k range, long long hours, sleep deprivation, 10 years in if not burned out may make $100k - $350k net after expenses, liability insurance

- Researcher... unlimited pay, over qualified, likely poorly paid ...

- Business Executive - from poor to highly paid, always looking over their shoulder

- Real Estate sales ... low to high earners.

- A consultant ?

More then age involved when it comes to learning things. Some folks just cannot learn math to a proficient level no matter how hard they try or how much they study.

You cannot compare people when it comes to learning, we are not all equal and sometimes no amount of study will make someone proficient in something.

But I also have a hatred for math beyond the basics from being younger and not knowing and still not knowing how to do the more advanced math, even with private tutors in high school and middle school, I still could not pass a grade appropriate math level, still can't.

Math is my single biggest hurdle to college. Yes math is important, but I am not sure everyone can learn it beyond basics.

So Gozit, how did you work out your answer to that question? Also, you will need to understand at some point that doing the bare minimum required won't get you where you want to be. If there is one space left on the course you want to do, or another applicant for a job, and they've made an effort in a broader range of subject areas, showing aptitude and adaptability, 99% of the time, that spot will go to then.

Going back to the original question, friends of mine came over here (then moved back) with 2 teens who were bored stupid at school here. The main thing they noticed was a lack of critical thinking being encouraged.

Dashie's right....and it will out. People will be able to read between the lines.

Ha! I knew one day it would happen!

How many middle aged BE's that have forgotten what it is like to be young and full of optimism does it take to beat up a 15 year old optimist?

How many of those that are providing advice as to how one earns a $250K salary earn anything approaching that?

What are these huge expenses and overhead?

A Bay Street junior on $60K? Dream on

Teachers hate critical thinking here. Anything that isn't displayed in their manual is automatically wrong. Its basically "This is what you need to memorise to pass the next test". Its quite simple really... They don't accept any method other than their own (I've had dad, who is an educated university professional and a math whiz, tell me the school's method is stupid and show me a faster way to do the same thing, only for the school to tell me its still wrong. Even though I came with the same answer) , so you basically learn "How to pass the next test".

Same goes for other subjects - like RE - there's a difference between allowing critical thinking, which would entail allowing students to display their own beliefs or lack of regarding the religion, but if I write on an exam that the world was created by the big bang, then i'll get marked wrong. If I say something along the lines of "god created the world in 6 days and on the 7th he rested" I get marked right. Even though we all know which of the two is the correct answer.

In the UK it seems that RE is taught from a broad viewpoint teaching about all religions and their histories, not indoctrinating, but here the catholic religion is shoved down your throat (if you go to a catholic high school)