Lorna at Vicenza

I agree with discipline and good behaviour in the classroom but the teachers are not supposed to cancel PE lessons for punishment. A lot of them do it but PE is part of the curriculum and as such should be respected as much as Italian class or maths and not used to punish the kids.

As for cancelling a birthday party ............ I'm not sure what to say.

TestaRossa

This is the first party of the class this year - I'm amazed the mother listened to the nun but that just shows to me how powerful the church can still be...! They did at least do something related to gym with the stuff about the human body but after all the hassle I had at the weekend getting bloody rhythmic dance shoes....Also meant that the mum who was collecting for a present gave all the money back...he wasn't even allowed a present from his classmates..I wonder if he will be getting anything! Does seem a bit harsh and I wonder just how effective it will be anyway. He was mates with the class git last year though so maybe it's not such a bad idea tbh..

Lorna at Vicenza

Cancelling the present as well as the party.
Poor kid - no matter how naughty he was at school.

37100

By getting them to do drawings of the human bodies means that technically they didn't cancel P.E because they are doing theory.

I'd have cancelled the party to, but then my sons are always telling hubby thaat they could get away with murder, but with me......

Well done Chloe!

indiebird

Did they really cancel the party??

I'm a bit late in all this. I wonder where we've lost our separation between school and home here? If a teacher in the UK had said to me 'he's been a little git. Cancel the party.' they would have probably learned what swear words I knew... and been told to mind their own business. Here I've got no idea where the boundaries lie.... I don't think I'm the person who has the last say with my own kids anymore though.... and yet all these people and all these theories don't seem to be doing a lot of good. I witnessed a kid who has been bociatoed twice already at the Scuola Media nearly fall out of a second storey window yesterday afternoon. He was in a lesson with a teacher who supposedly was in charge and responsible for the children in that class. All of the parents standing around me prayed for it to happen too... because they think if they get rid of him then all the other kids will either behave or get left alone... the way things are going that could be my own kid next year... I just don't understand how cancelling a birthday party makes a kid behave.... surely it just tells that kid that people have given up on you already and you don't deserve to be liked or loved...even by your family.

TestaRossa

Hmm, tbh I think it's not a bad idea. This kid is one of the more badly behaved and he's been made an example, apparently the next kid whose birthday is coming up is behaving impeccably which is out of character for him! What will happen after his birthday I don't know but it isn't until November so maybe by then it will be second nature to him to behave. When I was at school, rightly or wrongly, teachers could still use the cane, the strap or the slipper. Throwing board rubbers at naughty kids was normal as was a clip with a ruler on the hands. I remember one boy being held up by his shirt while the teacher screamed in his face - this was the most popular teacher in the school - personally I hated him and thought he was a sadist but then he is the reason I can't swim, short of throwing me in he pretty much did everything but to terrorise me into swimming BUT the kids who were scared of him, like me, behaved, so there was a lot less trouble in the classroom. Cancelling a party may seem harsh but if it gets the message over and the kids behave, why not? I actually think his parents were at their wits end so maybe they were relieved when this was taken out of their hands! It also means I have a threat with some clout behind it - Antonia was really acting up last night so I said I would write it all down in her diary, she was terrified! The nun doesn't hurt them and Antonia hugs and kisses her when she leaves at night but she doesn't want to disappoint her....If it's getting the job done and the kids can actually get some work done, what the heck! It isn't harming them physically is it??!

Lorna at Vicenza

I think I would have to be at my wits end to take advice about how to bring my kids up from many of the teachers here - but that's because I don't always think they know better than me.
Probably in this case the boy is a brat and has had little or no discipline at home and the nuns have a lot more experience about how to deal with unruly kids that age.

I saw it over and over again at the materna for 6 years where I really did like the teachers (3 years taking Chloe and the next 3, Alex). Kids who had learned to behave at school, in the classroom, the dinner hall, the playground because they knew the teachers wouldn't let them get away with blue murder - and the same kids turning into mummy kicking and hitting hateful little beasts as soon as mummy turned up. If only some of them could see how bratty their kids are they might take more of a stand or listen to the teacher's advice but many of them think their darlings can do no wrong.

The same thing probably happens everywhere.

Some of the hateful UK teenagers I have seen on some programmes recently definitely think they can get away with anything. Some parents are at their wits ends and some have just totally given up on them.

It's easy for me to be all smug now because so far I've had no major issues with my two - but God knows, I know all that could change.

indiebird

I dunno... I just feel that I've lost my own personal way.... noone takes responsibility for anything. Either here or, more and more in the UK too. I still wouldn't like to be told to cancel a party by a load of nuns though....but maybe that's just me...

I also feel sorry for a lot of these kids. What is going wrong with them. Even the little git in my son's class... even my own son.

TestaRossa

I think we have a different relationship with our kids now though - we treat them like friends and I wonder if that's half the problem....Have you seen how little kids treat their friends?!! There's no respect and if you bring your kid up as a pal (I'm as much at fault as anyone!) how can you then be strict with them?! Either that or they then bully their friends as they think that's how you behave with pals.....! I would never, ever have said half the things to my parents that Antonia does to me and as for swearing in front of them....(Alex, not Antonia this time!) I would've been clobbered or got a good telling off for sure, and I don't class my parents as "bad" parents in any way. I don't advocate smacking and violence, far from it, but I think a threat once made should be carried through. Once you threaten something that's so stupid you know you won't carry it through - "I'll leave you here for the gypsies" for example, your kids cotton on pretty quick - I wonder how many here threaten with dad and then dad comes home and says it doesn't matter.....

indiebird

Maybe you're right. I don't know if I treat my kids as friends but I don't really speak to them like kids. I speak to them like humans... maybe that's the point and maybe that's the problem sometimes. Although I do have one that behaves and one that doesn't. Interestingly at the swimming pool I've got into speaking to the bloke on the reception desk recently and he was saying how Julia is so 'vivace' and Harrison is 'piu tranquillo'. When I told him how it was the opposite at school he was really surprised. Did remind me though as these things are not as black and white as we might like to make them out to be though....

37100

I always threatened to tell eldest son's teacher (nun) that he had mis-behaved at home. He wasn't afraid of her, but he didn't want to dissappoint her. Didn't work with youngest though.

TestaRossa

Yeah, but I'm also learning that a vivace girl gets away with far more than a boy!! Sounds like H has got things all mixed up - it's home he's supposed to play up, not school!

indiebird

yeah, yeah tell me about both of those things! It also helps even more if the vivace girl is cute and knows how to play people....

Pecora Nera

I agree with you. never make threats that you won't carry out. I was once halfway between sheffield and blackpool on my way to see my Mum and Dad, my kids were arguing in the back of the car. I threatened to cancel the day trip if they didn't stop it. Unfortunately they kept on arguing.

They were a little shocked when I turned the car around and headed back to sheffield. They went very quiet and all apologetic. I still took them home. It sent them a powerful message.
Ha! When my son and daughter argued on a trip. I made them walk holding hands... Following this I only had to say " do you want to walk holding hands again" Normally it was enough to make them behave.

I also don't believe in slapping and violence. My mum used to shout and clout me with her wooden scholl shoes if I did anything wrong. The problem was one day I was so angry because I felt I was in the right I just stood there and let her hit me, whilst glaring at her. Even though it hurt!

Because I wouldn't yelp or cry, the punishment became ineffective and she had no other forms of discipline. My dad on the other hand used to lecture me in a normal voice and it was far more effective because he was fair and he spent a long time making me understand why I was in trouble etc. Gosh info overload

TestaRossa

My BFF used to get clobbered by her mum with her scholls - it shocked me. My parents would hit me but nothing OTT. I admit to smacking Antonia's bum when I can catch her but she really has to push it and as you can guess from the description it's pretty half-hearted so I normally just get her skirt and air!! Like you though she just yells back if she thinks she is in the right!! The nun threat is a breath of fresh air!! Having said that she knows I'll remove privileges and confiscate toys but she has so damn many it's nearly as ineffective!! No tv - I'll go on my ds then...No ds - I'll go watch a dvd then (it's not "tv") Other than locking her in my cupboard, but then she'd play with my clothes and shoes!!! I've tried things like stopping her friends coming around but then the friends suffer too...I'll stick with nunny I think..