Inglorious Empire
Apr 29th 2020, 11:27 am
#106
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,711
Re: Inglorious Empire
Thanks bipat interesting article. nice that indians could start their businesses and prosper under british rule with also the benefit of western science so i am not sure how the article shows anything disadvantageous to british rule but the opposite. indian traditional medicine i am sure has many benefits, i take turmeric and has been very helpful.
Apr 29th 2020, 1:05 pm
#107
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Buraydah , Saudi Arabia
Posts: 2,863
Re: Inglorious Empire
That defeats your 'born and bred' argument. Husband India born and bred, never left the country until the age of 31, is now OCI. Is he "foreign"??
It means a lot more than 'immigration status', full rights except voting and buying agricultural land. Always ongoing controversy regarding voting rights (should be introduced etc.) Dual nationality allowed etc.
Haven't looked up the Wiki definition, these definitions are not always accurate. I am not of Indian "origin" but am OCI.
Another anomaly--- those descended from people living under the Portuguese Empire (Goa etc.) who were registered at birth and offspring registered, keep their Portuguese nationality and are therefore dual nationals. Even if never lived in India. Until Brexit therefore had FOM into the UK!
It means a lot more than 'immigration status', full rights except voting and buying agricultural land. Always ongoing controversy regarding voting rights (should be introduced etc.) Dual nationality allowed etc.
Haven't looked up the Wiki definition, these definitions are not always accurate. I am not of Indian "origin" but am OCI.
Another anomaly--- those descended from people living under the Portuguese Empire (Goa etc.) who were registered at birth and offspring registered, keep their Portuguese nationality and are therefore dual nationals. Even if never lived in India. Until Brexit therefore had FOM into the UK!
However, I think you're looking at it in too black and white terms. As I said previously it's more about what you are culturally, socially, the language you use in your head in every day thought, and so on. It's not just about a document .
I would have thought 31 years in your country of birth would have been enough to define someone. I know that 22 in my country was.
As I said in another post, my own children are 'British ' yet they've barely spent 6 weeks there their whole lives. I think people who've lived in the uk their whole lives would probably see them as different.
There are so many shared experiences relative to where you grow up that define you as a person, whether that relates to language, food, music, government, housing, political systems, weather, nightlife, shopping, corruption etc etc. I could go on and on.
If this wasn't the case, why do people get culture shock living in a new country, or even reverse culture shock returning to their own country. It's because things are different in different places. Ergo people are different.
Apr 29th 2020, 1:46 pm
#108
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,711
Re: Inglorious Empire
Doesn't really undermine it at all. Relative to Indian law on citizenship and dual nationality, on acquisition of British nationality your husband became foreign. He is of Indian origin so it is the perfect fit for him until such time as the law changes.
However, I think you're looking at it in too black and white terms. As I said previously it's more about what you are culturally, socially, the language you use in your head in every day thought, and so on. It's not just about a document .
I would have thought 31 years in your country of birth would have been enough to define someone. I know that 22 in my country was.
As I said in another post, my own children are 'British ' yet they've barely spent 6 weeks there their whole lives. I think people who've lived in the uk their whole lives would probably see them as different.
There are so many shared experiences relative to where you grow up that define you as a person, whether that relates to language, food, music, government, housing, political systems, weather, nightlife, shopping, corruption etc etc. I could go on and on.
If this wasn't the case, why do people get culture shock living in a new country, or even reverse culture shock returning to their own country. It's because things are different in different places. Ergo people are different.
However, I think you're looking at it in too black and white terms. As I said previously it's more about what you are culturally, socially, the language you use in your head in every day thought, and so on. It's not just about a document .
I would have thought 31 years in your country of birth would have been enough to define someone. I know that 22 in my country was.
As I said in another post, my own children are 'British ' yet they've barely spent 6 weeks there their whole lives. I think people who've lived in the uk their whole lives would probably see them as different.
There are so many shared experiences relative to where you grow up that define you as a person, whether that relates to language, food, music, government, housing, political systems, weather, nightlife, shopping, corruption etc etc. I could go on and on.
If this wasn't the case, why do people get culture shock living in a new country, or even reverse culture shock returning to their own country. It's because things are different in different places. Ergo people are different.
I used to think how much money we would have had if we didn't spend so much on airfares---!!!
The 'culture shock' for OH was how much UK needed NHS doctors---(he had come just to take a Postgrad. exam)----and just kept being offered jobs--.and obviously lured into marriage!
For me the culture shock was Mumbai streets and realising it was pointless to have brought a pushchair for the toddler and new baby!! but once in the family home, it was home. I do think my mother in law who took me 'under her wing', meant that I never was 'different', 'foreign' etc.
Possibly my origins by Norfolk coast going to home in India rural coast meant a connection.
(Our children have the same bilateral connections with their cousins in India.)
Last edited by Bipat; Apr 29th 2020 at 1:51 pm.
Apr 29th 2020, 2:23 pm
#109
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Buraydah , Saudi Arabia
Posts: 2,863
Re: Inglorious Empire
The point about our circumstances is that we have always divided our time between the two countries. From 3 years after marriage onwards. Bi-two-duo-pat!!!
I used to think how much money we would have had if we didn't spend so much on airfares---!!!
The 'culture shock' for OH was how much UK needed NHS doctors---(he had come just to take a Postgrad. exam)----and just kept being offered jobs--.and obviously lured into marriage!
For me the culture shock was Mumbai streets and realising it was pointless to have brought a pushchair for the toddler and new baby!! but once in the family home, it was home. I do think my mother in law who took me 'under her wing', meant that I never was 'different', 'foreign' etc.
Possibly my origins by Norfolk coast going to home in India rural coast meant a connection.
(Our children have the same bilateral connections with their cousins in India.)
I used to think how much money we would have had if we didn't spend so much on airfares---!!!
The 'culture shock' for OH was how much UK needed NHS doctors---(he had come just to take a Postgrad. exam)----and just kept being offered jobs--.and obviously lured into marriage!
For me the culture shock was Mumbai streets and realising it was pointless to have brought a pushchair for the toddler and new baby!! but once in the family home, it was home. I do think my mother in law who took me 'under her wing', meant that I never was 'different', 'foreign' etc.
Possibly my origins by Norfolk coast going to home in India rural coast meant a connection.
(Our children have the same bilateral connections with their cousins in India.)
​​​​
Apr 29th 2020, 2:47 pm
#113
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,012
Re: Inglorious Empire
i would suggest having a different opinion as a foreigner brings up the need to make personal remarks like that concerning someone with different opinions you may re-think whether to post on a public forum.if different opinions generate the need for personal comments like that. i have already posted if you wish to imagine yourself to be Indian and not a foreigner in India so what, or if based on a piece of paper.
Aug 15th 2020, 12:14 pm
#115
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,711
Re: Inglorious Empire
Aug 15th 2020, 3:11 pm
#116
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 0
Re: Inglorious Empire
Reminiscent of the time of declining empire, today is the 75th anniversary of VJ Day.
Aug 15th 2020, 3:23 pm
#117
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,012
Re: Inglorious Empire
On the other hand got to give him credit for having a vision for the future which seems more tangible than leaders in many other countries.
Aug 15th 2020, 3:39 pm
#118
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,711
Re: Inglorious Empire
(I only recently found out that Indian air force pilots flew in the Battle of Britain.)
https://www.easterneye.biz/uk-rememb...ce%3A%20IWM%29
Last edited by Bipat; Aug 15th 2020 at 3:56 pm.
Aug 15th 2020, 3:45 pm
#119
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,711
Re: Inglorious Empire
Interesting speech, of course in the middle of the corona crisis has to bring up space, And of course key focus on reducing imports. though of course Brexiters will contend because the imagined deep affection for Britain Modi will be sure the already deeply negative economic relation the UK has with India won't get worse for the UK.
On the other hand got to give him credit for having a vision for the future which seems more tangible than leaders in many other countries.
On the other hand got to give him credit for having a vision for the future which seems more tangible than leaders in many other countries.
(Perhaps you can keep your Brexit predictions for another thread.)