Inglorious Empire

Old Aug 16th 2020, 9:16 am
  #136  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Expatrick
No, aircraft mishandled in (known) adverse weather conditions.
How can you know that before investigation complete? Should the flight have been cancelled? (Any form of travel is dangerous in heavy monsoon!)

If you are correct and pilot error how would investment have helped?
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Old Aug 16th 2020, 9:24 am
  #137  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
How can you know that before investigation complete? Should the flight have been cancelled? (Any form of travel is dangerous in heavy monsoon!)
Not appropriate to comment in detail on this thread, however -

Pilot had already aborted one approach due to the weather, and botched the actual landing (too high, too fast over threshold onto soaked runway).

If you are correct and pilot error how would investment have helped?
Enhanced training for a start, grooved runways, improved ATC and regulation. Remember, this accident was not a one off, there were half a dozen (or more) serious runway excursion incidents last year.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 12:12 pm
  #138  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
My post pointed out today is Independence Day, and as above Poster above pointed out also VJ day----UK TV this evening a 'moving' programme and also so many Indian people giving their experiences.
Regardless of views of Nehru, his independence speech is recognised as one of the all time great speeches..


Brexit etc. did not seem appropriate in reply.

Yet again you go on about the space programme.---It has been explained to you many times that this was the major concern of the previous Congress Governments (I would also question its beginning at that time).
To stop it NOW-- would waste previous research--end scientific/space cooperation with other countries (UK)--- cause unemployment, prevent young people from joining space research in their own country.
as has been also explained many times it is borderline immoral for such a poor third world country to engage in such prestige projects- and the savings would obvious be able to give a lot more jobs than thew those employed in the industry. the UK has some of the best universities in world rankings, as far as i know india few or none- i am quite sure the UK is quite capable of doing its own scientific research.i am always amazed at the lack of empathy shown by elites and nationalists in many third world countries.

you are probably right brexit comments off topics- though the speech did give focus to the key policy strategy to replace imports,

i agree Nehru's speech quite impressive
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 12:18 pm
  #139  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Expatrick
Not appropriate to comment in detail on this thread, however -

Pilot had already aborted one approach due to the weather, and botched the actual landing (too high, too fast over threshold onto soaked runway).

Enhanced training for a start, grooved runways, improved ATC and regulation. Remember, this accident was not a one off, there were half a dozen (or more) serious runway excursion incidents last year.
expatrick i know little about te subject though i have heard pilots making similar observations . i am quite interested to understand any sort of reasoning why space exploration to take precedence over saftey measures whether in the aviation sector, basic sanitation, or the type of concerns the EU has expressed about drug production in India.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 1:31 pm
  #140  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by morpeth
expatrick i know little about te subject though i have heard pilots making similar observations . i am quite interested to understand any sort of reasoning why space exploration to take precedence over saftey measures whether in the aviation sector, basic sanitation, or the type of concerns the EU has expressed about drug production in India.
I believe Expatrick is an expert in aviation. It is true that different airports have very different infrastructure---some of this is under State control not central Government. Also monsoon conditions should lead to more cancellations.

Morpeth you constantly repeat yourself- Space exploration does not take "precedence" over anything I explained to you that after decades of work it should not be "stopped" "NOW".

Basic sanitation has had precedence as has health provision 50% of population free private health care now---!
Concerns over drug production -----again you are 'out of date' ---several years ago EU had concerns with countries such as Italy etc. and 3 or 4 of the many production companies in India, the latter were closed.
I presume you know AstraZeneca has arranged for the Oxford virus vaccine to be manufactured in India! The company will produce for Indian use and India will give 50% to poorer countries.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 5:34 pm
  #141  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

I guess that it is naive of us to expect modern governments to put the safety of its citizens before fulfilling vanity projects - particularly those governments responsible for post imperial nation building & development.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 6:00 pm
  #142  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Expatrick
I guess that it is naive of us to expect modern governments to put the safety of its citizens before fulfilling vanity projects - particularly those governments responsible for post imperial nation building & development.
Which "post imperial nation'? UK or India???

The space program of India in the beginning (Nehru) could have been said to be what you call a "vanity project",
However why now waste the past efforts. It will provide work in the future for young scientists.

It now is providing advance weather information which has saved lives regarding the recent East coast cyclone etc. It also tracks shipping of 'less friendly' countries.
The UK satellites were sent up with Indian rockets.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asi...0put%20five%20

As I said above some airports are financed at State level ----Goa airport another example belongs to the Indian Navy.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 6:06 pm
  #143  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
Which "post imperial nation'? UK or India???

The space program of India in the beginning (Nehru) could have been said to be what you call a "vanity project",
However why now waste the past efforts. It will provide work in the future for young scientists.

It now is providing advance weather information which has saved lives regarding the recent East coast cyclone etc. It also tracks shipping of 'less friendly' countries.
The UK satellites were sent up with Indian rockets.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asi...0put%20five%20

As I said above some airports are financed at State level ----Goa airport another example belongs to the Indian Navy.
India (& other former colonies).

​​​​​​The aviation sector (& India's is pretty large) employs (or should) many scientists & technicians and contributes significantly to GDP.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 6:06 pm
  #144  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

London is an example of vanity in spending They have the delusion that they are still a World Power and as a result keep a fleet of submarines armed with Trident missiles, This folly costs huge sums of money that would be better spent on other projects.

Last edited by scot47; Aug 17th 2020 at 7:12 pm.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 6:10 pm
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by scot47
London is an example of vanity in spending They have the delusion that they are still a World Power and as a result keep a fleet of submarines armed with Trident missiles,
Precisely, hence my hope and belief that the former colonies could and should do better, learning from the mistakes of others!
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 8:11 pm
  #146  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Expatrick
India (& other former colonies).

​​​​​​The aviation sector (& India's is pretty large) employs (or should) many scientists & technicians and contributes significantly to GDP.
So young scientists with ambitions to work with a space program should migrate to USA? Lives saved by early weather forecasts are not important-----protection from unfriendly countries?
Well ----they are just non-Western, non-white people, just former colonies why should they have ambitions?
Combined space projects supporting UK ----not important?

British trained pilots have jobs with various Indian airlines (India the country with the largest number of women pilots).
As I said airport and safety measures are also at State level and military level.

(I agree that Naresh Goyal ---Former Chairman of Jet Airways---- a shameless man.)












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Old Aug 17th 2020, 9:06 pm
  #147  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
So young scientists with ambitions to work with a space program should migrate to USA?...
Well ----they are just non-Western, non-white people, just former colonies why should they have ambitions?
What a bizarre comment! Plenty of ambitious Indian technicians emigrate to the USA & elsewhere, as a matter of choice & demand. You have often expounded the need to allow the best & brightest to be allowed to immigrate to wherever demand requires - and employing technicians in a space programme does not justify the neglect of safety & efficiency in sectors such as aviation.

Your desperation to demonstrate prejudice where none exists is palpable, and often renders your posts irrational, sometimes even hysterical.
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Old Aug 17th 2020, 9:40 pm
  #148  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Expatrick
What a bizarre comment! Plenty of ambitious Indian technicians emigrate to the USA & elsewhere, as a matter of choice & demand. You have often expounded the need to allow the best & brightest to be allowed to immigrate to wherever demand requires - and employing technicians in a space programme does not justify the neglect of safety & efficiency in sectors such as aviation.

Your desperation to demonstrate prejudice where none exists is palpable, and often renders your posts irrational, sometimes even hysterical.
Obviously those young people who want to emigrate should be able to do so! Just as British Expats do---just as you have!
As you say those that benefit the UK are doing so!

However they shouldn't have to to achieve their ambitions. Why shouldn't ex-colonies have ambitions? Why shouldn't students benefit their own country?
You totally ignore the scientific advances by India.

Could you explain how exactly the space program prevents investment by individual Indian States in their local airports!
Why didn't the space program prevent the worlds largest free health system?
What about the safety of advance warning of cyclones helped by satellites? Overall far more lives would be lost than in air crashes. (84 deaths even then this year from cyclone Amphan--India and Bangladesh)
You could easily use as an example the multiple road accidents during monsoon deluges---and flooding etc----why not States spending more on safety.

(As I said above --at the time Nehru started the space program I agree that it was not appropriate but decades later why do you resent what has been achieved, and the joint efforts with the UK. If that is not prejudice what is it?



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Old Aug 18th 2020, 7:31 am
  #149  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Additions to last post.

Note ----
-'International commercial agreements' in first link.
'In market for space products and services', 'wealth generator' in second link.


https://www.space.com/india-pslv-roc...h-success.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-29341850
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Old Aug 18th 2020, 7:48 am
  #150  
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Default Re: Inglorious Empire

Originally Posted by Bipat
Obviously those young people who want to emigrate should be able to do so! Just as British Expats do---just as you have!
As you say those that benefit the UK are doing so!

However they shouldn't have to to achieve their ambitions. Why shouldn't ex-colonies have ambitions? Why shouldn't students benefit their own country?
You totally ignore the scientific advances by India.

Could you explain how exactly the space program prevents investment by individual Indian States in their local airports!
Why didn't the space program prevent the worlds largest free health system?
What about the safety of advance warning of cyclones helped by satellites? Overall far more lives would be lost than in air crashes. (84 deaths even then this year from cyclone Amphan--India and Bangladesh)
You could easily use as an example the multiple road accidents during monsoon deluges---and flooding etc----why not States spending more on safety.

(As I said above --at the time Nehru started the space program I agree that it was not appropriate but decades later why do you resent what has been achieved, and the joint efforts with the UK. If that is not prejudice what is it?
While states may invest in individual airports, aviation safety (training, regulation, etc) requires a nationwide approach, driven by central government. The argument is that State funds would be better spent on aviation safety (& other things) rather than on a space programme - no one has died on the space programme, yet. Something to think about next time you board an aircraft.
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