Rural Hungary

Think that's the way to go. Even if you just use solar for the water and rather than a basic wood burner, I would consider the tiled stoves as they are far more efficient and can incorporate a system to run central heating.

fidobsa

Can the solar panels cope with freezing or do you have to drain them for winter?

Rural Hungary

Wouldn't be a problem if an in direct system was used and even direct systems can apparently be freeze tolerant nowadays. If it was a rudimentary DIY system then I would drain in the winter unless you were certain it wouldn't freeze - or if only for heating, add antifreeze.

mawood47

OK then every one as thoughts on witch is best heating hand hot water system to use to give a possibility for heating and the possibility of incorporating hot water to this then go-to permies. com where you find a different approach to heating they call it Rocket Mass Heater, look at what can be done.
Last part do not be to concerned a bought the Adobe in this project,
as I am sure the next words will help all those with the ADOBE Peasant
House There is Summer Camp the Group of Mud Puddles running hear in Hungary witch cover every aspect ADOBE wot ever interest in this work go-to [email protected] for information from this year and if interested then make it known of this

Rural Hungary

Interesting link thanks

Peter_in_Hungary

The key to heating cheaply is insulation. The typical Hungarian house has appalling insulation, The older style of double windows are not much better than single glazed windows.

IMO first draft proof, then insulate, - external wall insulation (EWI) has been used here longer than the UK, 20+ cm required in lofts etc. then consider upgrades to doors and windows.

For heating systems the traditional tilled stove or cserépkályhá is v. efficient, studies have shown up to 90% efficiency, better than some modern gas boilers! (the traditional Hungarian tilled stove is a wood fired storage heater) Wood stoves can be good depending on type and wood gassification boilers have been available for 20+ years. Don't bother importing as all things are available here and usually cheaper even before transport.

The important thing about heating with wood is the quality of the fire wood. Moisture content of less than 20% is a must otherwise incomplete inefficient combustion occurs. Unfortunately you can not buy this, so if heating with wood is planned then wood should be purchased 2 years ahead to allow for seasoning.

The rocket stoves mentioned above are just a variation of the traditional Hungarian tiled stove. Rocket stoves are typically DIY and I would not risk it, get it wrong and you have CO poisoning! I would go for a professionally built tiled stove (which can be done out of bricks then rendered and whitewashed if a tight budget dictates)

Heating with wood can be expensive if you rely on buying 'oven ready' If you buy in bulk its cheaper but can be a life style, requiring time, energy, log splitter and chainsaws. I know several Hungarians who heat with gas because wood is either too expensive (if oven ready) or too much work when bought in bulk

For simplicity go with gas, for cheapness go with wood - providing you can put in the work Also a full wood burning set up can be more expensive than gas CH.

My recommendation for the ex-pat retiree would be insulate then gas (combi boiler) with a feature tiled stove or wood burning stove(s).

Domestic hot water could be solar thermal but I would forget solar PV as its too expensive if the grid is within 2km. There are no FIT payments here - which is the only thing that makes solar PV economic in the UK.

As always get lots of quotes as too many Hungarian trades people think all foreigners are rich

mawood47

Yes I agree on all of the report, how ever I have my own Trusted Team Plumber, Electrician, and all round Tradesman, they never used the Phrase Hungarians can smell money, This do with once Bitten Twice Shy.
Regarding all other maters Heating a Property I have all ways Had a Property for my kneads, no greater than 50 m 2 at present 35 m 2 Running cost including Local Tax, Water, Electricity, wood free for Stove recycle wast water, 145.770 hf yearly ,she's probably over insulated she is up for sale at present but next one to build will be even less yearly running cost's
over Insilated

fidobsa

Not true. I wanted a solid fuel cooking stove with back boiler and considered bringing a used Aga, Rayburn or Stanley appliance from UK. I ended up with an Austrian made version but it is much inferior to my old Rayburn I had in Scotland. That was a very heavy, cast iron stove with a very thick cooking hob. This would retain the heat so it was always ready for boiling, frying etc. The Austrian stove has a much thinner top which quickly cools down so the fire has to be well stoked before you start to cook.

Peter_in_Hungary

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary View Post
Don't bother importing as all things are available here and usually cheaper even before transport.

From fidobsa
Not true. I wanted a solid fuel cooking stove with back boiler and considered bringing a used Aga, Rayburn or Stanley appliance from UK.

I was assuming new and like for like

Mark_Hu

Just a few thoughts:
We heat with wood about 200 sq meters house in the Pilis at 400 meters height so can be chilly. As mentioned the secret is insulation. We have 12 -14 cm on 35cm porotherm bricks with 25cm in the roof. Double glaze to get rid of drafts and if you can over time take the floors up and insulate this - not always an option.
We use 3 cubic metres wood a year BUT this is as if you were buying a solid block and is sometimes described as an "erdei kob meter" (forest cubic meter) e.g we bought 6 cubic meters last year in 1 meter lengths and the stack measured 10 cubic meters. We got a to cut and chop it for 3000UF a meter. Wood cost19,000 deleivered. Its a bit of hassle, but we buy enough for two years so the second year timber is well seasoned. Buy the following winters wood in Feb so it has time. So 66,000 a season.
Not all stoves are the same we did in fact bring a 8-10 kw Clearview from the UK - Surprisingly Brit stoves are considered to some of the best. After 2 years we put a 2kw backboiler in but to be honest its not a big enough stove. I think a 12 kw stove with a 2 kw back boiler would be better.
We have solar hot water but aslo a gas boiler also from the uk - this was a mistake as althoughbthe gas is rated the same (not sure why the potatoes should boil more slowly ) but the pressure is higher 0- took a bit of fixing!)
If you go for solar wait for the construma trade show in B'pest in april for serious discounts.

Mark_Hu

Try insulating on the inside with polyurethane boards (celotex) - my brother has just done this and double glazed etc. He has halved his heating bill!

Shotgun

<<but the pressure is higher 0- took a bit of fixing!)>>

Mark,

What is the pressure of mains gas in Hungary?

Mark_Hu

To be honest, I cannot remember now, I think about 10-15% higher than the UK. Makes our cooker rings roar a bit sometimes!! Although more noticeably gas pressure does vary from day to day. When we had our boiler sorted, I got an engineer to test it just in case it was not burning properly -carbon monoxide worries and all that. It was right at the top of the scale (safety wise)on his meter so not an issue. I still wouldn't import another one though. Its also a system boiler and the thermostat only cuts in at 55C which is a bit high for the underfloor heating which we use for a separate apartment.
In the course of our build though this was the only real cockup, so we count ourselves lucky!!!

Peter_in_Hungary

Care must be taken with internal insulation. Very good vapour control layers are needed otherwise condensation will occur on the cold side of the insulation. This can damage the wall, any timber battens or joists and cause the growth of mold. Generally internal insulation is only done when external insulation is not possible. External insulation insulation is much better and generally allows for a higher level of insulation.

fidobsa

I don't know about Hungary but in UK the supply pressure to the meter is different to the pressure from the meter to the appliance/s. The gas fitter has a manometer and adjusts the meter output pressure to suit what equipment you are using.