GOA - Buyer Beware!

Old May 20th 2008, 5:58 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Foreigners and Property Problems in Goa – Forthcoming Radio Programme
Fri 23 May. 12:00 – 13:00 BBC Radio 4 (also online) “You and Yours”, the
consumer affairs programme is to devote a 7-9 minutes segment to the
threatened confiscation of Goa Property owned by Foreign Nationals. They
would like to speak to some people affected by the threat and will ensure
privacy if required. Please send in your contact details and a brief (max
200 words) summary of your position to [email protected] by Wed.
21 May.
You can check out some of the recent broadcasts at the programme website by
going to http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/.

Last edited by Mitzyboy; May 20th 2008 at 10:22 pm. Reason: post amended
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Old May 20th 2008, 6:13 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

FOREIGNERS AND PROPERTY PROBLEMS IN GOA BBC radio 4 Threatened confiscation of property of FNs in Goa
[email protected] from the programme You and Yours would like to hear from anyone who is having these problems the programme goes out on friday at 12.00GMT she ould like contact and a short 200words summary of your problem in the strictest of confidence if you so wish, urgent that this information gets to her by wed 21st.
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Old May 20th 2008, 2:53 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

threatened confiscation of Goa Property owned by Foreig Nationals. They would like to speak to some people affected and will conceal
their identity if required.



Hi all

I do hope the media has a better understanding of the situation in goa than most FNs, before they air these programmes.

Just one more time-

The majority of FNs dont own property in goa, but amazingly even after all the info now available many FNs still think they do!

The goan govt has very limited powers of confiscation and why would they want to confiscate property from indian freeholders ( the people who do own the properties that the FNs think they own)

regards

douglas
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Old May 20th 2008, 3:37 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by Douglas M
threatened confiscation of Goa Property owned by Foreig Nationals. They would like to speak to some people affected and will conceal
their identity if required.



Hi all

I do hope the media has a better understanding of the situation in goa than most FNs, before they air these programmes.

Just one more time-

The majority of FNs dont own property in goa, but amazingly even after all the info now available many FNs still think they do!

The goan govt has very limited powers of confiscation and why would they want to confiscate property from indian freeholders ( the people who do own the properties that the FNs think they own)

regards

douglas
A curiously slanted pov Douglas, and not helpful.

AndyD 8-)#
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Old May 20th 2008, 4:15 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Will you please stop posting negative comments, I stopped visiting IM because of this, "if you are so sure you know everything why dont you put yourself forward to do this interview," people were stupid, dupped, whatever the case they have parted with their money, most of them are well aware they probably have no leg to stand on when it comes to it, but the few that have brought their properties "legally" will continue to fight their case, by which ever means it takes. you got out we are still here!!!!
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Old May 20th 2008, 4:19 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by a_f_d
A curiously slanted pov Douglas, and not helpful.

AndyD 8-)#
Hi Andy,

I am sure the indian response will be in a similar vein.( FNs must expect a response)

I do believe my statements are helpful, that is why i make them.

Instead of running around like headless chickens, the majority of affected FNs (leaseholders and agreement to salers ) should be negotiating an exit strategy and price with the indian freeholders. That would be a positive use of their time and energy (and productive in terms of some money in the bank(eventually)

The minority of affected FNs, ie the registered freeholders, should be asking themselves were they genuinely resident under FEMA at the time of signing and registering the sales deed ?

Irrespective of the legitimacy of the contract, the minority ( registered freeholders) should be considering how they can prove residency to the next authority that requests it.

If they fail to prove residency, the best turn out is the contact is void and the property reverts to the indian freeholder (in which case proceed as above).

The worst turn out is if the adjudicating authority is RBI, they have powers of fining and confiscation in addition to voiding.

In the worst case scenario, the only solution is internal ie come to terms with the loss through understanding , acceptance and moving on.

kind regards

douglas
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Old May 20th 2008, 4:37 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by poppetjay
Will you please stop posting negative comments, I stopped visiting IM because of this, "if you are so sure you know everything why dont you put yourself forward to do this interview," people were stupid, dupped, whatever the case they have parted with their money, most of them are well aware they probably have no leg to stand on when it comes to it, but the few that have brought their properties "legally" will continue to fight their case, by which ever means it takes. you got out we are still here!!!!
Hi poppetjay,

My comments are not negative , i offer practical solutions to a difficult situation.

The fact that you visit IM or not will not affect your future in india.

I dont know everything but i know more than most.

Because of what i know, i would not be interviewed. Why would i want to put myself in a position where i was edited and manipulated by a misinformed media ?

It is not your decision as to whether or not you bought your property legally the adjudicating authority will decide. Please prepare your case.

I didnt get out of india voluntarily, i was instructed to leave by the FRRO at the behest of the home dept.

Prepare yourself for the same fate.

kind regards

douglas
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Old May 20th 2008, 5:02 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Sorry i totally disagree with you, your comments are negative, we havent got anything to lose by trying, and i cannot walk away because i have nothing to walk away to, unlike others!!!
You are fond of giving out advice, yet when it comes to the crunch you and the do nothing brigade bury their heads in the sand, and its not the sand here in Goa.why havent the people who have been ask to leave taken it to central government, if i knew i'd hopefully done everything legally its your basic human right to fight and get justise,we have been told what GOA is doing is wrong and they need to get central government approval before doing anything its harrassment!!!!! but while i'm here my hands are tied,
I know for a fact that whoever gets interviewed, you and others will slate them off after because in your view they would have said the wrong things.
Yes i can prove i was resident here, I have RBI letters etc to prove my case, and with the year i have left on my visa will keep fighting for myself and other who find themselves in the same position.
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Old May 20th 2008, 6:18 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Well said poppetjay and in your shoes I would do exactly the same. You have to do what you want to do no matter what others say.
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Old May 20th 2008, 6:35 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by poppetjay
Will you please stop posting negative comments, I stopped visiting IM because of this, "if you are so sure you know everything why dont you put yourself forward to do this interview," people were stupid, dupped, whatever the case they have parted with their money, most of them are well aware they probably have no leg to stand on when it comes to it, but the few that have brought their properties "legally" will continue to fight their case, by which ever means it takes. you got out we are still here!!!!
Hi Poppetjay,
Alas, Douglas is RIGHT, he is telling us the cold facts without emotion.
Most people reading these posts will only ever be a lessee and never an owner.
Perhaps a property developer/ sales person could be encouraged to take part in the radio 4 program to answer questions ?
Regards Bryson
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Old May 20th 2008, 7:12 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by emsirrah
Well said poppetjay and in your shoes I would do exactly the same. You have to do what you want to do no matter what others say.
Obviously everybody does what they want in the end. HOWEVER> it would seem sensible to double check it all out as Douglas has stated. You may not like what you hear\read - people have a propensity to disregard sensible advice and information - because they find it "Negative" - this is not wise in my opinion.

Lawyers: The retirees in Spain lost their properties (taken back by the Spanish Government) because their "trusted" Spanish Lawyers - either disregarded an arcane law or chose so to do (rather than forego fees payable for a transaction). The French Lawyers have a propensity to do much the same - knowing that Foreign Buyers are not cogniscant of the full legal implications - and are not fluent in the language.

Good luck to you all in this dilema
Best wishes
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Old May 20th 2008, 7:58 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by poppetjay
Sorry i totally disagree with you, your comments are negative, we havent got anything to lose by trying, and i cannot walk away because i have nothing to walk away to, unlike others!!!
You are fond of giving out advice, yet when it comes to the crunch you and the do nothing brigade bury their heads in the sand, and its not the sand here in Goa.why havent the people who have been ask to leave taken it to central government, if i knew i'd hopefully done everything legally its your basic human right to fight and get justise,we have been told what GOA is doing is wrong and they need to get central government approval before doing anything its harrassment!!!!! but while i'm here my hands are tied,
I know for a fact that whoever gets interviewed, you and others will slate them off after because in your view they would have said the wrong things.
Yes i can prove i was resident here, I have RBI letters etc to prove my case, and with the year i have left on my visa will keep fighting for myself and other who find themselves in the same position.

Hi poppetjay,

Disagree by all means.

What you have to lose is a lot of time and energy that maybe could be put to better use ( we wont know in your particular case for some time)

I didnt have anything to walk away to either, but i now have a new home, mainly through hard work, objectivity and positive thinking (and having an incredible wife and being white and being male and being born in recent times in the first world etc.)

Douglas is fond of giving out advice, but he is not a member of the do nothing brigade, he puts a lot of time and effort into trying to help fellow FNs.

I wont slate anybody off for being interviewed, just do the best you can, but understanding the basic rules of the game (the law in india and how the media operates) may help you.

The interviews may also antagonise the goan/indian govt and be counter productive. Particularly if a FN makes an incorrect statement and the indian representative ( maybe even in the same programme dismisses or disproves it)

Why would the FNs who have been asked to leave india, take the issue to central govt when it was the policy of central govt that caused them to be excluded in the first place?

It is a basic right for all human beings to fight for justice, just dont do it in a place like india and expect to win.

Regarding your point about the goan govt obtaining central govt approval to amend the 1908 registration act, im unsure about that. However they haven't used those new powers as yet as far as i know, because the clause in FEMA that requires FNs to prove residence to any authority is perfectly adequate for the purpose of excluding FNs. (along with central govt policy to restrict visas)

I agree that many of the actions against FNs in goa could be seen as harassment, but they have a basis in law.

I hope i have answered all your points

kind regards

douglas
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Old May 20th 2008, 8:54 pm
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Hi all, have been reading your posts with interest. There is just one point that you might want to bear in mind and it may be something to raise on the show.

Lets say you were resident when you bought a property and you fulfilled the FEMA rules, lets say for the time being you are still a resident, the changes in the issuing of visas is also going to change your status which means you will no longer be resident and as such you will be in breach of FEMA so you are in a no win situation because even if the registrar re opens to FN's, unless you are a resident you can't sell. Douglas, Of course the government are within their rights to revoke visas and change the terms of visas but when this has been done in the UK the people affected have exercised their rights to petition and highlight their plight in the media so why not do the same.

There is also a the issue of interpretation of the FEMA act, because as you all know there is no mention of types of visas required to be in a position to buy, with a 6 month tourist visa you were required to register if you were staying longer than 28 days, I don't think this is the case now, and you were able to stay in India for more than 182 days with 2 separate tourists visas in any one financial year, the FEMA act did not state consecutive days.

I disagree with some on this site, the show will reach a wider audience than BE forum and may prove to be more useful in discouraging others from buying in Goa even if it doesn't change the situation for those who have already bought. As long as the interviewee takes a balanced approach and accepts that some people did perhaps knowingly buy illegally by setting up bogus companies and never intended to be resident. Lawyers/Advocates had a duty of care to point out that what they were doing was illegal, whether they did or not I don't know as we went down the resident route and did feel we were well advised by our lawyer.

Good luck.
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Old May 20th 2008, 9:24 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by michellea
Hi all, have been reading your posts with interest. There is just one point that you might want to bear in mind and it may be something to raise on the show.

Lets say you were resident when you bought a property and you fulfilled the FEMA rules, lets say for the time being you are still a resident, the changes in the issuing of visas is also going to change your status which means you will no longer be resident and as such you will be in breach of FEMA so you are in a no win situation because even if the registrar re opens to FN's, unless you are a resident you can't sell. Douglas, Of course the government are within their rights to revoke visas and change the terms of visas but when this has been done in the UK the people affected have exercised their rights to petition and highlight their plight in the media so why not do the same.

There is also a the issue of interpretation of the FEMA act, because as you all know there is no mention of types of visas required to be in a position to buy, with a 6 month tourist visa you were required to register if you were staying longer than 28 days, I don't think this is the case now, and you were able to stay in India for more than 182 days with 2 separate tourists visas in any one financial year, the FEMA act did not state consecutive days.

I disagree with some on this site, the show will reach a wider audience than BE forum and may prove to be more useful in discouraging others from buying in Goa even if it doesn't change the situation for those who have already bought. As long as the interviewee takes a balanced approach and accepts that some people did perhaps knowingly buy illegally by setting up bogus companies and never intended to be resident. Lawyers/Advocates had a duty of care to point out that what they were doing was illegal, whether they did or not I don't know as we went down the resident route and did feel we were well advised by our lawyer.

Good luck.
Hi Michellea,

A nice summary, most of the points you have raised have previously been covered by me and others.

Ref the second para, i originally thought that if you lost residency you had to do 183 days again, but i later found a clause in FEMA that said if FNs were resident at the time of purchase you only needed permission from RBI to sell.The main point here is can you prove that you as a FN were resident in the first place.

To develop the above argument even if you had to do 183 days again in order to sell (and the register was open) the fact that you intended to return to uk as soon as you had completed the sale indicates that you didnt have an intention to stay the second time, (so you wouldnt be resident would you?)

I agree that wider publicity may dissuade other FNs from investing in goa. However, my feeling is that most FNs are looking for personal solutions in the form of a magic wand from an external source, rather than prevention.

I sussed out that the tooth fairy was really my mum a long time ago.

kind regards

douglas
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Old May 20th 2008, 9:45 pm
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I have to agree with Douglas here. I do not believe that any amount of lobbying, media coverage will resolve the situation. You have to ask yourself why on earth do you want to be in a country that clearly does not value your contribution. The tourist industry for many years has visited Goa and look how they have treated them. They have done nothing to promote the well being of this industry, only stripped every single rupee out of it. Very short sighted. They wish to attract the 'well heeled'' well someone needs to remind the powers that be in Panjim that you actually need footpaths to walk in heels!! Yes, you may get the Beckhams of the world, but only locked away in the Exclusive villas at places like the Taj.
Time could be better spent planning an exit route/money repatriation etc.
I for one give Goa a big HARVEY SMITH.
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