GOA - Buyer Beware!

Old Aug 2nd 2007, 3:52 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by noni
Hi all,

Found this article www.goanvoice.org.uk
From Asian Age 2.8.07 - News plus forcus - Pamelo D'mello
Goa tightens norms or overstaying foreigners.
Well worth a read.

Noni
On the same page there is another write-up saying that increasing number of foreigners are settling in Goa
http://mangalorean.com/news.php?news...adcastid=49418

And guess which nationality the writer picks up as an example.....no prizes for guessing

But as one scrolls down to the end of the write-up the warning is clear ;(

Regards

KKK

Last edited by KKK; Aug 2nd 2007 at 3:57 pm.
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Old Aug 2nd 2007, 5:09 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by Kinrara
Hi Andy

I don't know all the ins and outs of this idea of yours but what you are suggesting makes sense, especially if your property is on a complex. Why can't all complex property (so called) owners form a company, so that all property owners become shareholders, it's more than likely that one of the complex property owners would be a PIO/NRI or maybe a resident Indian to head the company. It would be a legitimate company as you would all pay into a maintenance fund for the upkeep, employing staff for gardening, cleaning, security etc. Is this a no go idea or could it work?
Hi Kinrara,

Technically, there is no reason why a group of brits couldnt form a ltd co and become a FN version of acron. You would probably get massive resistance from the various govt depts (from which you would require numerous permissions) though. Probably active resistance from local people too.

However, it would be be seen as just one more attempt to avoid the now very clear policy that FNs are not wanted in goa. FNs in general need to get out of avoidance and evasion mode and accept the fact that they are not welcome in india except as tourists . Their energy ,time and money could be better used elsewhere.

The longer and stronger FNs resist this simple fact, the more severe the penalties are going to be for those who are singled out for exclusion.

regards
douglas
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Old Aug 2nd 2007, 8:51 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by babu1
Hi

Can someone please explain the residents "pink book"? I know FN's with these, but only those who have gone the "business route" or are actually involved in business and have a PAN as well as the obligation to file tax returns.

My Residential Permit has always been a 3 page A4 document with photo and details on third page, the Registration Report under the Registration Of Foreigners Rules, 1939 issued at the FRO in Panjim. This is completed in triplicate and annexed with xerox copies of my passport and appropriate visa, which one year was a Business Visa that I didn't actually use to set up a business, and subsequently 1 year X Visas.

This form asks you to declare your Occupation or Profession and purpose of Visiting India, as well as Address In India.

Noni, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you said you have a pink book, yet I think you also said you didn't buy using the "business route", you declared yourselves as retired thus not leaving India for any indeterminate period.
Hi Babu1

As I understand the pink book was issued by FRO to people with 5 year visas. I believe the pink book was replaced by the Residential Permit 3 page A4 sheets around 2004 /5

Regards Mrs D
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Old Aug 2nd 2007, 9:01 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by Douglas M
Hi Kinrara,

Technically, there is no reason why a group of brits couldnt form a ltd co and become a FN version of acron. You would probably get massive resistance from the various govt depts (from which you would require numerous permissions) though. Probably active resistance from local people too.

However, it would be be seen as just one more attempt to avoid the now very clear policy that FNs are not wanted in goa. FNs in general need to get out of avoidance and evasion mode and accept the fact that they are not welcome in india except as tourists . Their energy ,time and money could be better used elsewhere.

The longer and stronger FNs resist this simple fact, the more severe the penalties are going to be for those who are singled out for exclusion.

regards
douglas
Hi Douglas

Thanks for your time, only a thought!

Obviously as you know, I am stuck in the cusp of all of this mess (as many of us are) I know your not a Fortune Teller (wish you were) but as our leader what is your valid opinion of what will happen to any of us on Sale Agreements? I know you have posted that after the deeds have been investigated they will then look in to Sale Agreements, do you feel that we will just lose everything, as we don't technically own anything! What is your opinion of what we should do on a Sales Agreement, bearing in mind we have already spent on furnishings etc and can't sell. Do you think as it is our dream, as so many others, we should just sit it out or do you think that is just suicidal?
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Old Aug 2nd 2007, 9:46 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by Kinrara
Hi Douglas

Thanks for your time, only a thought!

Obviously as you know, I am stuck in the cusp of all of this mess (as many of us are) I know your not a Fortune Teller (wish you were) but as our leader what is your valid opinion of what will happen to any of us on Sale Agreements? I know you have posted that after the deeds have been investigated they will then look in to Sale Agreements, do you feel that we will just lose everything, as we don't technically own anything! What is your opinion of what we should do on a Sales Agreement, bearing in mind we have already spent on furnishings etc and can't sell. Do you think as it is our dream, as so many others, we should just sit it out or do you think that is just suicidal?
Hi Kinrara,

Nice that you value my opinion, who knows what the authorities will do next.

Certainly, holders of unregistered agreements to sale that have not resulted in the signing or registration of a sale deed could be rich pickings for enforcement teams. I accept that there are maybe good reasons why FNs have not registered their agreements but at least two offences have been committed by most FN s in this position and at least one offence by the freeholder concerned.

The 1908 registration act says that stamp duty of 1 % of the consideration(goa) should be paid by the FN on signing the deed and it must be registered.

The income taxes act says that if a freeholder permits occupation of a property by an agreement to sale holder (and they have paid the full consideration),the freeholder should pay the capital gains tax on the transaction even though transfer of ownership has not taken place.This is obviously anti avoidance legislation.

So taking an apartment worth say £20k an eenforcement team could collect say £200 for the stamp duty and say £200 fine for each registration offence from the FN. From the freeholder on say 30% gross profit and cgt at say 20% we have £1,200 in unpaid tax and fine of a similar amount.Total take for each non registered , non declared agreement to sale in goa say £3,000. Multiply that by the thousands of FNs and others out there with these agreements and what a party they could have.

If FNs develop convoluted systems to trade these agreements to sale amongst themselves, they are compounding the problem and increasing the possibility of a clampdown as above.

In addition there are the other risks from the freeholder/FN relationship aspect to consider. There is also market risk, the property bubble will burst one day.

If i hadnt been told to leave goa and knowing what i know now as a FN ,
i would get out asap and salvage whatever i could of my investment (whatever system or agreement i had purchased/ leased on)

regards
douglas
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Old Aug 3rd 2007, 12:07 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Hi

I am an Indian citizen living and working in the UK and would want to invets in Goa.I wanted some suggestions regarding how good or bad the following developers are ..
1.Akar constructions - have come up with excelsior
2.Audi constructions - have come up with majestic palms resort
3.homes 4 living - they are marketing properties in the UK similar to Acron.

Any good or bad reviews..

Thank You

Last edited by drpritir; Aug 3rd 2007 at 12:12 am.
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Old Aug 3rd 2007, 1:45 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by drpritir
Hi

I am an Indian citizen living and working in the UK and would want to invest in Goa.I wanted some suggestions regarding how good or bad the following developers are ..
1.Akar constructions - have come up with excelsior
2.Audi constructions - have come up with majestic palms resort
3.homes 4 living - they are marketing properties in the UK similar to Acron.

Any good or bad reviews..

Thank You
Hi there, welcome to BE, must say you have great sense of irony not to mention a wonderful show of empathy, you are a PIO/NRI asking FNs (who are being: asked to leave, are under investigation, being informed via the press that they are NOT wanted, have potentially lost money through the misinformation given them by Indian developers/agents, can't get visas, can't register, get treated in a slipshod, offhand way, not allowed to buy certain goods.) for advice on how good an investment opportunity Goa is??
You have no problems regarding purchase or registration of your property, my suggestion to you is go there, talk to the locals and buy an old Portugese or Goan house, with some land. Put in a pool, restore and improve the house and rent it out. It will still be around long after a lot of these new ones have fallen down. You will have a bigger, better property in nicer surrounds, it won't have been built on agricultural land, or be tied to investigations into drugs/arms smuggling, political machinations, Mafiosa from whatever country.
Maybe you should make an appointment with Douglas, I hear that his fees are very low.
Regards
Tony P
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Old Aug 3rd 2007, 2:40 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by TONY P
Hi there, welcome to BE, must say you have great sense of irony not to mention a wonderful show of empathy, you are a PIO/NRI asking FNs (who are being: asked to leave, are under investigation, being informed via the press that they are NOT wanted, have potentially lost money through the misinformation given them by Indian developers/agents, can't get visas, can't register, get treated in a slipshod, offhand way, not allowed to buy certain goods.) for advice on how good an investment opportunity Goa is??
You have no problems regarding purchase or registration of your property, my suggestion to you is go there, talk to the locals and buy an old Portugese or Goan house, with some land. Put in a pool, restore and improve the house and rent it out. It will still be around long after a lot of these new ones have fallen down. You will have a bigger, better property in nicer surrounds, it won't have been built on agricultural land, or be tied to investigations into drugs/arms smuggling, political machinations, Mafiosa from whatever country.
Maybe you should make an appointment with Douglas, I hear that his fees are very low.
Regards
Tony P
Hi Tony,

Some negative forces building up here. One could argue that pios and nris are insensitive in these matters for the reasons you stated ( on a personal note if the vast increase in the no of investors in the goan coastal belt hadnt recently taken place , i am sure that douglas and a few other long term FNs would still be settled in the backwoods of goa)

However, there is a fundamental difference of right here, people of indian origin are entitled to be there and FNs are not and we must respect that.
On that basis i am happy to welcome and help all comers.

Your point about first restoring the existing housing stock before allowing new build is a valid one and i did just that, but restoration still uses energy (cement production etc)

The essential problems are those of organisation and logic on the part of goans, indians and their governments .The greatest irony of all is that people like douglas brought with them those very things that are lacking and yet were excluded without any thought for or understanding of their contribution. I suppose experience and intellectual capital is difficult to quantify and value by those who bought their jobs and couldnt pass the 11 plus.

We cannot apportion blame to individual investors for the current situation in goa and i say on that basis we should welcome all who request our help (even acronites).

regards
douglas
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Old Aug 3rd 2007, 3:02 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by Douglas M
Hi Tony,

Some negative forces building up here. One could argue that pios and nris are insensitive in these matters for the reasons you stated ( on a personal note if the vast increase in the no of investors in the goan coastal belt hadnt recently taken place , i am sure that douglas and a few other long term FNs would still be settled in the backwoods of goa)

However, there is a fundamental difference of right here, people of indian origin are entitled to be there and FNs are not and we must respect that.
On that basis i am happy to welcome and help all comers.

Your point about first restoring the existing housing stock before allowing new build is a valid one and i did just that, but restoration still uses energy (cement production etc)

The essential problems are those of organisation and logic on the part of goans, indians and their governments .The greatest irony of all is that people like douglas brought with them those very things that are lacking and yet were excluded without any thought for or understanding of their contribution. I suppose experience and intellectual capital is difficult to quantify and value by those who bought their jobs and couldnt pass the 11 plus.

We cannot apportion blame to individual investors for the current situation in goa and i say on that basis we should welcome all who request our help (even acronites).

regards
douglas
Hi Douglas most of it was tongue in cheek, everybody is welcome on BE and I wouldn't gainsay that right, it was more where the post was, rather than personalities that set me off( Bit uptight today), mixed with a certain amount of envy for being in that position, my friend who is Indian is now going back to dual nationality(Cheaper than a PIO card), after his parents had spent ages getting British Nationality, he still gets ripped off in Goa,(took him 9 months to get electricity and the Goan who lives opposite him wanted to know why his house hadn't been connected, Sam told him it was because he hadn't paid for it, the guy couldn't understand that he had to pay for electricity, he just used a couple of crocodile clips off the main lines,) but he always laughs at me and says I should apply for Indian Nationality, he says my head waggle is fluent Indian.
My thoughts about the bureaucracy are that you can't put brains where God failed and that Reason cannot prevail where Reason cannot penetrate.
Peoples rights are always worth standing up for but a bit of empathy for those who believed they had a right and found that they don't doesn't go amiss.
regards
Tony P
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Old Aug 3rd 2007, 3:30 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by drpritir
Hi

I am an Indian citizen living and working in the UK and would want to invets in Goa.I wanted some suggestions regarding how good or bad the following developers are ..
1.Akar constructions - have come up with excelsior
2.Audi constructions - have come up with majestic palms resort
3.homes 4 living - they are marketing properties in the UK similar to Acron.

Any good or bad reviews..

Thank You
Hi there

What project you choose it totally up to what you are looking for, I could suggest at least two more websites which might be of interest to you

www.axiomestates.com
and

www.modelsgoa.com

best of luck for your hunt

KKK
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Old Aug 6th 2007, 11:07 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

I apologise and totally emphatise with everyone who are/were unable to buy their dream holiday home .I am not aware of the happenings there since I live in the UK.I do wish the moronic Indian govt allows everyone to buy property and live a life of their choice.I am a first time buyer without any connection anywhere near Goa and therefore was doing my homework since most of you on this forum had been to goa or seem to have a lot more information on Goa than myself.Apologies again if I sounded unsympathetic.
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Old Aug 6th 2007, 11:18 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by drpritir
I apologise and totally emphatise with everyone who are/were unable to buy their dream holiday home .I am not aware of the happenings there since I live in the UK.I do wish the moronic Indian govt allows everyone to buy property and live a life of their choice.I am a first time buyer without any connection anywhere near Goa and therefore was doing my homework since most of you on this forum had been to goa or seem to have a lot more information on Goa than myself.Apologies again if I sounded unsympathetic.
Hi There Drpritir.......
and welcome aboard.

Your right that a lot of people have had great difficulty (understatement) legally and sucessfully purchasing property in Goa.
Further to the HCI press release, it is clear that PIOs and OCIs are only permitted to purchase property in India at this time.

If you are not of indian origin either by blood or marriage then my advice is, dont even consider it.

Your also right of course to do your homework and you will find all the dos and donts and horror stories on this thread.
Anyway , dont be a stranger and thanks for your input.

Kind Regards,
Remy
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Old Aug 6th 2007, 11:38 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by drpritir
I apologise and totally emphatise with everyone who are/were unable to buy their dream holiday home .I am not aware of the happenings there since I live in the UK.I do wish the moronic Indian govt allows everyone to buy property and live a life of their choice.I am a first time buyer without any connection anywhere near Goa and therefore was doing my homework since most of you on this forum had been to goa or seem to have a lot more information on Goa than myself.Apologies again if I sounded unsympathetic.
Hi drpritir,

You survived your baptism of fire, welcome again to the site. If you cannot obtain the info required on this site you could post your request again, also try indiamike.

If you are considering buying off plan in goa, i suggest you read my previous post to dicky lewis as it contains a list of checks and balances you need to do for due diligence .

regards
douglas
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Old Aug 7th 2007, 11:03 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by Douglas M
Hi drpritir,

You survived your baptism of fire, welcome again to the site. If you cannot obtain the info required on this site you could post your request again, also try indiamike.

If you are considering buying off plan in goa, i suggest you read my previous post to dicky lewis as it contains a list of checks and balances you need to do for due diligence .

regards
douglas
Hi All,

Sent Eddie Fernandes of Goan Voice an e-mail last night and he replyed saying he feels embarassed about the witch hunt on FNs in Goa.

I started a thread asking posters to thank Goan Voice for their Coverage on the plight of FNs. Please take time to post a little thankyou as a tolken of appreciation.

This type of coverage is crucial and brings the plight of FNs in Goa out into the public domain. Please show your support to Goan Voice.

Kind Regards,
Remy
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Old Aug 7th 2007, 11:20 pm
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Post Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by Remy-Ireland
Hi All,

Sent Eddie Fernandes of Goan Voice an e-mail last night and he replyed saying he feels embarassed about the witch hunt on FNs in Goa.

I started a thread asking posters to thank Goan Voice for their Coverage on the plight of FNs. Please take time to post a little thankyou as a tolken of appreciation.

This type of coverage is crucial and brings the plight of FNs in Goa out into the public domain. Please show your support to Goan Voice.

Kind Regards,
Remy
Well done Remy for contacting Goan Voice to highlight our concerns and many Thanks also to Eddie for empathising with the situation faced by many FNs, which hopefully will lead to more balanced press coverage and public opinion in Goa.

Regards TDK
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