Douglas M

Hi Dicky,

I would be inclined to give churchills 7 days notice in writing to return your monies and if they dont cough, start CC proceedings.

You didnt own the property in the first place, so churchills cant sell your property because no transfer of ownership has taken place. Remember,you are expressly forbidden from owning immovable property under indian law as a non resident FN.

The fact that you paid monies to churchills, not the freeholder (assuming they are not the freeholder) would give weight to this argument.

Therefore, the unknown freeholder still owns the property, the fact that the agent has or has not yet sold property x on behalf of the freeholder is of no relevance to your claim and should not delay your refund.

If and when you actually do purchase immovable property in india, in addition to the residency requirement, the total consideration should be paid through normal indian banking channels for the benefit of the freeholder, in order to comply with FEMA.

regards
douglas

Douglas M

Hi indiapurple,

If i was in your position, that is exactly what i would do. I would also have the lease stamped and registered.

In my view the validity of your agreement to sale is questionable, others disagree with that statement. However, if it is valid and you havnt registered it and paid 1% of the consideration as stamp duty, you have committed at least one offence under the 1908 registration act.

So, non registered sales agreements arent a good idea either way, for non resident FNs.

regards
douglas

noni

Hi Dicky,
Me B''@@''''' up again - being on the Acron site I thought you had bought from them. Apologies to Churchills, and good for them, we slag off Agents, must give the little darlings credit when credit is due

Bet there is a big wad in your pocket now.

Remy-Ireland

Hi Andy,

Suggest you look up HCI defination of tourist visa.
Holidaying and Visiting Friends/Relatives.

The reason why FEMA dosnt mention the type of visa you can buy on is simply because of the following:

RBI

Q6. Can a foreign national of non-indian origin resident outside India purchase immovable property in India?

A6. No. A foreign national of non indian origin, resident outside india cannot purchase any immovable property in India.
But he/she may take residential accomodation on lease provided the period of lease does not exceed five years. In such cases, there is no requirement of taking any permission of or reporting to Reserve Bank.

Come on Andy, where going over old ground here....please dont mis lead people by letting them think its ok to purchase on a tourist visa. Also you cant complete residency on a tourist visa in order to comply with FEMA.

Regards,
Remy

noni

There is no argument any longer, we all know the Register is closed, and tourist visa's are only for 180 days.

My argument for this is - whoever has had their Property registered on a tourist visa the repercussions should be on the Advocate for not doing his job properly, and for the Registra for registering them.

Remy-Ireland

Hi Noni,

Your right.

Regards,
Remy

Douglas M

Hi Noni and Remy,

I have to strongly disagree with your statement in the second para. The registrar is not responsible for the validity or otherwise of a FN registration, see my previous post that contains an article from a previous registrar on their duties and obligations.

The FN will have signed an affidavit at the time of registration stating that they have complied with FEMA, the onus is on the FN to ensure that they have fully complied before signing both the sales deed and the affidavit, ignorance of the law is no defence.

Moving on to the advocate now, who instructed him to register the sale, was it the developer or the FN? Was he even acting for the FN?

If it was the FN, did the FN instruct the advocate simply to prepare a sales deed and an affidavit on an execution only basis , or did the FN ask for advice?

Who paid the fee to the advocate and if a fee was paid , what was the fee paid for, was it simply for the drawing and execution of a deed , or was it for advice on property purchase by a FN?

Assuming the FN has a case, would it be for negligence or loss, or both? Has there even been a quantifiable loss.

These are important points of law and would ideally need to be evidenced in writing if a FN was to have any chance of making a claim for negligence or loss in any court.

Then there is the problem of court appearances and travel for the FN and getting a judgement in your favour in a corrupt and dysfunctional legal system, plus the systemic delay in hearing your case.

I rest my case

douglas

Remy-Ireland

Hi Douglas,
I agree with what your saying and i know the fault still lies mainly with the FN, BUT if they have a tourist visa then the registrar should simply say 'Get Lost, you cant buy here on a tourist visa.'
Is this so hard to do?

Regards,
Remy

Douglas M

Hi Remy,

If a registrar refuses an application it must be in writing and the reason for refusal must be within his remit eg the documentation is incomplete or the valuation is incorrect. Compliance or otherwise with FEMA, is outside his remit.

regards
douglas

Remy-Ireland

Hi Douglas,
Surely if you dont have residency then your documentation is incomplete as residency cant be completed on a tourist visa.
Are you saying that the registrar doesnt or isnt able to check this basic requirement?

Regards,
Douglas

noni

Hi, Douglas,

I can see what you are saying - but Remy and I are saying that they should check these things before registering, for god sake man, what are they being paid for. We all know that they are mostly village idiots, but you have to agree that the Goans have to take part of the blame, it is no good saying that FN should do this, or that, read this read that, why B....@@@@ sell to us in the first place (with the exception of you and me - whose cases are different) They should not be selling now to FN. End of story.

If I don't get a reasonable visa - can I punch them on the nose when at the HCI next week.

Remy-Ireland

Hi Noni,
I e-mailed HCI London today and asked them to Post on their Website the dos and donts on Buying property in Goa. I also asked them to clarify their position on X visas to FNs. Also said they need to post some sort of 'warning' on all their Tourist Visa Application Forms.

Will let you all know if and when i get a reply.........usually they do reply sooner or later.

Regards,
Remy

noni

Hope you have better luck than me - I emailed them two months ago
zilch

http://oheraldo.in/node/26304 but it didn't say why the 10 did not have their visa's renewed.

Peter Maude

Hi,

None of this sounds promising for anyone buying in Goa.

Just wondered if anyone had a good legal contact in the UK to speak to who knows about Indian property law and the current circumstances?

Many thanks

Pete

Douglas M

Hi Remy,

As far as the registrar is concerned compliance with FEMA is not a basic requirement. The registrar does not work for the RBI, he only has certain grounds for refusal and non compliance with FEMA is not one of them.

The rules regarding immovable property registration may have even been compiled prior to 1999 and the advent of the FN residency qualification contained within FEMA, i am not sure on that one?

Furthermore the majority of the registrations do not involve FNs, we are a minority group, so the registrar rarely deals with FNs and until recently simply treated them as local registrations.

Developing the argument now, if the authorities pardon the FNs who have transgressed and they escape without penalty that would be unfair on the FNs who did the 183 days and maybe lost earnings in the process.The cost of the investigation also has to be paid for, why shouldnt the transgressors pay fines to cover the cost?

In addition, if pardoned, what kind of message would that convey to the many hundreds if not thousands of wannabee FNs waiting in the wings?

Remember, the current message to FNs is "you are not wanted" (for whatever reason) and what better way to get that across than to make examples of the few.

regards
douglas