GOA - Buyer Beware!

Old Apr 21st 2008, 10:40 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by a_f_d
Douglas said


Douglas that's a pretty impressive anaysis. As you might expect I have a few quibbles:

# Agreement for Sale + possession does seem to be secure (though not saleable) so all those who protest that it wasn't an investment should be satisfied.

# As per my recent post; Acronite self-perpetuating leases do seem to be legal

# RBI have pretty much indicated that they are not in the confiscation game

# I have just heard that stamp duty has gone up - it now depends on purchase price (or Registrar's valuation if higher) - this is not stepped (i.e. ist a at y, second b at z) but ranged (i.e. if <= a then all at x; if >a and <b then all at z...). Property <= 30 lakhs is 2%; <= 40 lakhs is 3% ... with a ceiling of 5%.


All the more reason why it's crazy for the government to refuse Registration.

AndyD 8-)#
:


not letting people register because they cannot work out the rate, far to complicated for them.
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Old Apr 21st 2008, 10:44 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by sunseansand
OMG thats a lot.. thanks for that!! lol ....so i really cant remember 100% but do remember some sort of tax/duty being paid at the time of our initial 'purchase' so presume we paid the stamp duty when we registered the sale agreement and therefore will have to pay 2% only (!!) when we register our deeds?
SSS
yes, anything paid on the Agreement for Sale is deducted.

AndyD 8-)#
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Old Apr 21st 2008, 10:47 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by old man
:


not letting people register because they cannot work out the rate, far to complicated for them.
LOL - AndyD
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Old Apr 22nd 2008, 1:08 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Thanks for taking the time to reply so openly and honestly, I admire you in having moved forward..not always easy (or possible financially I suppose). but being pragmatic 'life is too short' .... but its certainly a hard pill to swallow and I hope you manage eventually to salvage something financially at least from your Goa/India experience.
best wishes and heres to you!!!
sss
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Old Apr 22nd 2008, 1:24 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by a_f_d
yes, anything paid on the Agreement for Sale is deducted.

AndyD 8-)#
Thanks AndyD
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Old Apr 22nd 2008, 1:26 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by sunseansand
Thanks for taking the time to reply so openly and honestly, I admire you in having moved forward..not always easy (or possible financially I suppose). but being pragmatic 'life is too short' .... but its certainly a hard pill to swallow and I hope you manage eventually to salvage something financially at least from your Goa/India experience.
best wishes and heres to you!!!
sss
Hi SSS,

Thanks for that

The ultimate state is to know yourself.

How better to discover yourself than through adversity.

kind regards

douglas
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Old Apr 22nd 2008, 5:06 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

A Precis of the past and current situation in Goa with regards to Purchasing,FEMA/RBI, Advocates,Builders etc has been sent to the journalist Ginetta Vedrickas ( google her name to see articles)She has asked me if ANYONE who has had REAL LEGAL issues whether its DOE, Leasing renewals,losing their property to even been refused entry back into India to contact her !
If you have,please contact her on; [email protected]
Ginetta will take your story in 100% confidence (if you wish P.M me first, )This could be the start of a major breakthrough to expose the issue/problems to the British public !



Kan-conned[/QUOTE]

As there has been a fair amount of activity on this thread today, I hope this MEDIA OFFER OF EXPOSE has not been missed( apologies for requoting it)
I do think its the best we have got to date,so any offers to contact Ginetta ?
Has anyone had any other media contacts ?
I now have the Jeremy Vine DIRECT LINE Tel, to their research teamany objections if I pass it on to all via this thread

There are now 66 names on the petition but surely there are people out there in Expats land haven't done their "bit " yet
Please view & sign (even if you put a Non de Plume/nickname.. its safe) 200 is the figure thats needed so come on...
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Old Apr 22nd 2008, 6:10 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by hemingway
Yes, a very sad tale but not the only example I'm sure - reproduced below:

Hemingway.

Let’s face it!
A very disillusioned tourist, by e-mail

I am a British Pensioner, with much experience behind me. Being retired, I am completely self sufficient, require no financial hand outs and adhere to the rules wherever I go.
My wife and I have really enjoyed our stays in Goa. We love the people and try to give a helping hand whenever and wherever we are able. We support many less fortunate than ourselves. We have promoted Goa to lots of family and friends in the UK. Unfortunately, the longer we have been here, we have seen much more corruption amongst the police and people in high official capacities. It’s starting to make us wonder why we keep coming back and why we think others will want to follow.
Let’s face it, I, like many others in my position, am not wanted here. We first came eight years ago. Properties were available on the internet to anyone who wished to purchase.
Nobody said we were breaking any laws. When we showed some interest we were encouraged to view more and more properties. Five years ago we complied with the legal requirements and stayed in India over 183 days, one year prior to the purchase of an apartment in the centre of Candolim. We had advice from the advocate dealing with our purchase in a complex.
It is still being developed and has grown with the input of other foreigners buying property there. It was then that we sought advice through the RBI, to clarify our position.
We were told then that it was illegal for us to purchase, but not illegal for them to sell to us! Why were they allowed to take our hard earned cash?
The current situation on the beaches is also very disturbing not only to us foreign tourists, but to those who try very hard to earn an honest living catering to our needs.
We have watched the shack owners struggle to find the fee for setting up at the start of the season. Then they are told to wait before they can build them. This season many were unable to get any business up and running until long after the tourists arrived.
This made many tourists go elsewhere when there was no shelter or place for refreshment on beach. The disappointment was expressed to us by some, saying they will not come again.
I would like to point out that some Indians are being granted 10 year visas to stay in England, and some can work and set up companies.
I was given a one year visa and told I must leave after 180 days this season.
Dear all, First apologies for not replying to earlier private messages but I don't use this site often . If anyone with similar stories to this one is prepared to be identified I'd be happy to try and get coverage for you in the nationals who I regularly write for but I know they will insist on names and possibly pictures. I know this is very scary for many of you in awful predicaments but this might just help and I would like to help. I did quote one of you anonymously in a previous story but for a real focus on the downside of buying in Goa, I do need names. Please email if you might be interested all the best. [email protected]
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Old Apr 22nd 2008, 12:54 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by curious about goa
Dear all, First apologies for not replying to earlier private messages but I don't use this site often . If anyone with similar stories to this one is prepared to be identified I'd be happy to try and get coverage for you in the nationals who I regularly write for but I know they will insist on names and possibly pictures. I know this is very scary for many of you in awful predicaments but this might just help and I would like to help. I did quote one of you anonymously in a previous story but for a real focus on the downside of buying in Goa, I do need names. Please email if you might be interested all the best. [email protected]
Hi all,

Is there any one out there capable of any form of objectivity?

The FN quoted is a self confessed tourist!

He appears not to have had an intention to stay (FEMA)

He appears to have used the developers advocate

He is becoming involved in local issues

He is acting out of self interest, the indian perspective is not considered.

He doesnt have a case

regards
douglas
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Old Apr 22nd 2008, 2:17 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by Douglas M
Hi all,

Is there any one out there capable of any form of objectivity?

The FN quoted is a self confessed tourist!

He appears not to have had an intention to stay (FEMA)

He appears to have used the developers advocate

He is becoming involved in local issues

He is acting out of self interest, the indian perspective is not considered.

He doesnt have a case

regards
douglas
PS Whilst i am in rant mode

If the FN was non - resident at the time of signing and registering the sales deed (all evidenceindicates this) The contract (sales deed) is void, the ownership reverts to the developer/freeholder and the original freeholder is entitled to take posession ie change the locks and ask him to leave.

The FN is entitled to request return of the purchase money from the original freeholder

douglas
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Old Apr 22nd 2008, 2:51 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by Douglas M
PS Whilst i am in rant mode

If the FN was non - resident at the time of signing and registering the sales deed (all evidenceindicates this) The contract (sales deed) is void, the ownership reverts to the developer/freeholder and the original freeholder is entitled to take posession ie change the locks and ask him to leave.

The FN is entitled to request return of the purchase money from the original freeholder

douglas

Whilst on a rant - google the Acron site and read what they say about property purchase.
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Old Apr 23rd 2008, 3:52 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Hello FolksI
I have just been contacted by Ginnetta and she feels the press in Uk may be interested in our case, BUT.... I am really frightened to let my name be published in fear of what these people could do here, and as i am here permantly feel things could get bad, Yes i am a coward !!! but all i have is here and I know how vindictive these people are, please advise !!!
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Old Apr 23rd 2008, 5:57 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by poppetjay
Hello FolksI
I have just been contacted by Ginnetta and she feels the press in Uk may be interested in our case, BUT.... I am really frightened to let my name be published in fear of what these people could do here, and as i am here permantly feel things could get bad, Yes i am a coward !!! but all i have is here and I know how vindictive these people are, please advise !!!
Hi poppetjay,

I sympathise with your plight, although i dont know the exact details you seem to be in a similar position to me. Firstly ,you should ask yourself why am i doing this? Is it to help my case, or to further the cause?

As I have indicated before on this site, any attempts to reverse a decision by central and goan govts to exclude FNs are in my view futile .

However, if your motivation is to help wannabee FNs from suffering the same fate as yourself, ie prevention, then you may have some success. When i say some success, my own experience is that FNs are so deeply in denial and have such a strong sense of entitlement to goa that you will only scratch the surface.ie. the problem is mainly internal rather than external.

Moving on now to the campaign to date, so far the efforts are frankly pathetic.

Please understand that if you/FNs present your case either directly to any court , minister, tribunal ( either directly or through a representative or the press ) the evidence must be both accurate and factual.

To take the petition for example, it states there has been changes to FEMA 1999 to the detrement of FNs, FEMA is unchanged - the defence can prove it easily, therefore the case is dismissed.

You dont get asecond chance to say, oh i really meant changes to the 1908 registration act.(only ninety years difference and an entirely different authority) Even worse dont expect somone else who knows less than you ,to take this mess of pottage , understand it and correct it before the hearing.

From memory, the petition also mentions illegal acts by lawyers and developers. Apart from the odd case of fraud (that we dont yet know about) these alleged grievances by FNs are not criminal acts but FNs may have cause for civil suit for say negligence , breach of contract etc against
these people.

It largely depends on the instruction you give them and what evidence you can produce to prove it in the case of dispute.

When you instruct a lawyer or any other tradesman you must make it clear what you want them to do, what their remit is and be prepared to pay for that level of responsibility ,expertise and time involved in completing the task.

eg FN contacts a lawyer and tells him that they have decided to property X and would he please draw up the necessary documentation.The lawyers duty of care is to ensure that the documentation is correctly drawn- no more than that. The responsibility for due dilligence lies with the FN.

Conversely ,if the FN approaches a lawyer and says i am a foreign national and i am considering buying property x ,please do searches regarding,title, planning and building permissions etc, and report back. In addition please advise me on the law regarding purchase of immovable property by FNs in the state of goa and india in general ,residency, inward remittance of purchase monies , repatriation and anything else that could effect my financial and personal well being in india. Clearly the lawyers duty of care to the FN is greater.

How many FNs truthfully gave the latter instruction to their lawyer (and can evidence it)

Dealing now with overkill, If the dry cleaner shrinks your suit you ask him for compensation and if he doesnt pay you sue him in the county court, you dont write to the sunday papers and request an interview with the prime minister, if you get my drift

Moving on now to the press, so far we have been given a case example of a disgruntled tourist which everyone thought was a worthy cause (journalist included) On the evidence we have it appears that he was non resident and in breach of FEMA in signing and registering a sale deed in goa.

As a consequence in indian law he is a criminal, the sale deed is void and he could be fined and refused visa or entry .So when we cut through the moral indignation and examine the facts it is the FN who is at largely at fault (so it would appear).

In summary, there is too much raw emotion and not enough facts being examined and presented.This lack of attention to detail is why most FNs are in the position they are in (some are also victims of circumstance , but that is largely outside our control) This lack of objectivity and lack of attention to detail is being perpetuated in your attempts at a defence.

Time for you all to re examine your position, your evidence , yourselves and seek more of an internal rather than an external solution.

I will not be posting for a while, i am playing too much of the fishermans role.

Hopefully, others have now learned how to fish.

kind regards

douglas
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Old Apr 23rd 2008, 10:25 pm
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Hi douglas
If so many people are in denial why is this thread even running? I know I have done nothing wrong, but as you quite rightly state maybe that wont be according to government rules, but my whole life is tied up in this property Ihave nothing to go back to and little savings, I cannot come and go like alot of people do, and certainly cannot just pack up and leave and move to new pastures.

I will be contacting Ginnetta because if only one person gets their shout at least i can say it was me instead of hiding my head in the sand.
Like it would appear many people on this thread are doing or have they got things to hide thats the difference!!!!:
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Old Apr 24th 2008, 1:45 am
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Default Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!

Originally Posted by poppetjay
Hi douglas
If so many people are in denial why is this thread even running? I know I have done nothing wrong, but as you quite rightly state maybe that wont be according to government rules, but my whole life is tied up in this property Ihave nothing to go back to and little savings, I cannot come and go like alot of people do, and certainly cannot just pack up and leave and move to new pastures.

I will be contacting Ginnetta because if only one person gets their shout at least i can say it was me instead of hiding my head in the sand.
Like it would appear many people on this thread are doing or have they got things to hide thats the difference!!!!:
Interesting first paragraph on http://www.goanvoice.org.uk
"Invest in properties in Goa.
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