GOA - Buyer Beware!
Dec 15th 2009, 3:11 am
#2821
Account Closed
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,146
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hiya J5
Yes I am privy to what occurred before Douglas was ejected from "incredible India," however to discuss it on here, would implicate certain people, and highlight areas of rural Goa that I am not prepared to do!
Suffice to say, that no FN will ever make a true lifetime friend from a Goan.
(If i am sounding like Douglas, its because we both tried to "integrate" with the local population, unsuccessfully)
There are around a billion Indians on the continent, and if any of us had moved to say China, I doubt we would have any difficulty in understanding the jealousy involved in what we brought into their "sights".
So, it is completely understandable how they feel about us "rich" FN's...
Difference is, that they are skilled at controlling their jealousy in order to survive and milk us all...they are excellent businessmen.....!!
(we ended up calling them all "smiling piranha's")
Our final rule of thumb was to look for ALL the angles, and become extremely streetwise towards everyone...and because of that attitude, we survived it ...(not intact, but enough to learn from the experience and never ever repeat it)
Lets face it, the Goa we all loved, has turned into a squalid, corrupt "Benidorm" without any perks these days, apart from the weather, and you can get that anywhere in Asia without all the hassle...
You all need to look at the strain you are going through, and question whether the "cheapness" of the place warrants the pain and uncertainty that comes with it?? ...Another saying comes to mind..."if its cheap, it WILL be cheap!!"
Birdy
Yes I am privy to what occurred before Douglas was ejected from "incredible India," however to discuss it on here, would implicate certain people, and highlight areas of rural Goa that I am not prepared to do!
Suffice to say, that no FN will ever make a true lifetime friend from a Goan.
(If i am sounding like Douglas, its because we both tried to "integrate" with the local population, unsuccessfully)
There are around a billion Indians on the continent, and if any of us had moved to say China, I doubt we would have any difficulty in understanding the jealousy involved in what we brought into their "sights".
So, it is completely understandable how they feel about us "rich" FN's...
Difference is, that they are skilled at controlling their jealousy in order to survive and milk us all...they are excellent businessmen.....!!
(we ended up calling them all "smiling piranha's")
Our final rule of thumb was to look for ALL the angles, and become extremely streetwise towards everyone...and because of that attitude, we survived it ...(not intact, but enough to learn from the experience and never ever repeat it)
Lets face it, the Goa we all loved, has turned into a squalid, corrupt "Benidorm" without any perks these days, apart from the weather, and you can get that anywhere in Asia without all the hassle...
You all need to look at the strain you are going through, and question whether the "cheapness" of the place warrants the pain and uncertainty that comes with it?? ...Another saying comes to mind..."if its cheap, it WILL be cheap!!"
Birdy
GC
Dec 17th 2009, 4:43 am
#2822
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 30
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi Noni, I read somewhere, I dont know where, Ive been reading all the old threads.
Somebody asked about the possibility of starting a Russian version of Expats BB etc.
My question is : have you any members / contacts with the wannabe Russian property owners?
If not, and you still think its a good idea, then I will try to make contact.
My wife speaks Russian and my daughter is studying Russian at University.
From our experience in Goa not many Russians speak English.
PS I will PM you at the weekend
Keep fighting
Mainwaring
Somebody asked about the possibility of starting a Russian version of Expats BB etc.
My question is : have you any members / contacts with the wannabe Russian property owners?
If not, and you still think its a good idea, then I will try to make contact.
My wife speaks Russian and my daughter is studying Russian at University.
From our experience in Goa not many Russians speak English.
PS I will PM you at the weekend
Keep fighting
Mainwaring
Dec 17th 2009, 4:45 am
#2823
Joined: May 2007
Location: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
Posts: 8,227
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi Noni, I read somewhere, I dont know where, Ive been reading all the old threads.
Somebody asked about the possibility of starting a Russian version of Expats BB etc.
My question is : have you any members / contacts with the wannabe Russian property owners?
If not, and you still think its a good idea, then I will try to make contact.
My wife speaks Russian and my daughter is studying Russian at University.
From our experience in Goa not many Russians speak English.
PS I will PM you at the weekend
Keep fighting
Mainwaring
Somebody asked about the possibility of starting a Russian version of Expats BB etc.
My question is : have you any members / contacts with the wannabe Russian property owners?
If not, and you still think its a good idea, then I will try to make contact.
My wife speaks Russian and my daughter is studying Russian at University.
From our experience in Goa not many Russians speak English.
PS I will PM you at the weekend
Keep fighting
Mainwaring
about a Russian thread.
Dec 17th 2009, 11:38 am
#2824
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 56
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hello everyone,
please forgive my intrusion, as I am not really a British Expat, but rather a German one.
I've read every single post in this thread now, and boy, do I wish I had found it earlier.
I am still petrified, as before having discovered this thread, I had no clue as to what extent and at what scale people have been conned out of their life's savings.
Let me share my story with you, as another warning to those who still play with the thought of setting up business in Goa or purchasing land.
Like many of you, I fell in love with Goa quite a while ago, in my case in early 1996. Ever since I've spent as much time there as possible, working towards the ultimate goal of settling there, at least during the winter months.
My business as an IT consultant suffered quite a lot under this, as I frequently turned down offers for new long time projects and contract renewals in order to be able to come to Goa and "sort my stuff" there.
I've been renting quite a huge ancestral Portuguese villa in Vagator since 2001, and was lucky enough to find a completely trustworthy Assamese employee who has since been taking care of the house during my absence as well as in my presence. The formerly decrepit structure was beautifully renovated and furnished, and the desert like garden was turned into a sea of flowers by my employee, whom I nowadays regard as a close friend of mine.
I've been one of the first in the village to receive a fibre optic TV and internet connection in order to be able to work from there, and have since 2001 introduced basically my whole circle of friends and acquaintances to Goa, most of whom have become regular visitors, spending their whole holidays there every year.
We have got 2 dogs and 2 cats, and I've made donations to both the temple in Chapora as well as to St. Anthony's church in Vagator. I've had many a drink (no 'noffies, in my case it's DSP or Royal Stag) with the locals (at local bars), and have no doubt gained some popularity among them.
I've hosted classical Indian live music events, free entrance, free food, free drinks (invitation required of course).
I was in the middle of learning Hindi, already understanding 50% of the Bollywood dialogues and I am able to follow a basic "bazaari hindi" conversation.
I have got very good friends in Bombay (oh, sorry, Mumbai I meant), was invited to two weddings there so far, and have been Best Man at one of them.
I've even studied the cricket rules!
So far, so good, until in 2005 I decided to buy a piece of land, in my beloved Vagator. The opportunity was too good to be true. 825 sqare meters of land, for 5 lakhs. Clear title, and categorized as "settlement area" (verified at the Mamlatdar's office).
I've studied the FEMA regulations, and came to the conclusion that the company route was the one to go, since I had always dreamt of opening a nice little bar and restaurant, with a few rooms to rent out, not to make huge profit, but just enough for the whole undertaking to eventually become self sufficient (and to secure my employee's future).
At the time, I was in India on a 5 year Tourist visa (back then easily obtainable in Germany), and had no problems to register as a resident at the FRRO in Panaji. The 180-days endorsement stamp on the visa was missing (it did not occur to me then that that was an accident). We (2 Germans) faced no problems registering our Pvt. Ltd. Company, Tourism sector, 100% foreign capital.
We also managed to have our Sales Deed registered in the company's name.
The problems started with the MCA moving on to e-Government, and having mistyped the CIN (Corporate ID Number) in the process of computerizing the documents. This delayed the Mutation, and also made it impossible for me to get certified documents of our Incorporation, halted the process of obtaining DIN and so on.
Our 5 year visas came to an end, and we had to apply for new ones. Of course I applied for business visa. I was refused because of lack of proof. So, I got a 1 year tourist visa instead (the consulate being aware of me having founded a Goan company at this time).
Meanwhile, the register was closed to FN's and I was not able to do the mutation (although I am in possession of a registered Deed), since the Goan authorities seem to have a hard time understanding the difference between a foreigner and a foreign-owned Goan company.
I returned, sorted all my stuff, got all the necessary papers sorted in order to apply for business visa, filed all the tax stuff, paid loads of money to my CA, and hoped for the best.
The end of this (too long) story:
My application for business visa has been referred to MHA, my passport is stamped "V.A.F.", and I haven't heard anything for 3 months now.
I was told at the CGI that I "wasn't supposed to form a company while on tourist visa".
My flight to India has left without me 2 months ago, I am sitting here, at -9°C, and from what I gather here and on IndiaMike, chances are very slim that I'll eventually get my business visa.
No European head office, no trade so far, and a property acquisition in question.
I won't be elegible for tourist visa, either, since I am still a Director of an Indian Company.
Even if I receive a visa in the future, it might not be wise to actually go, since I might end up at Aguada in handcuffs (ok, that might be an exaggeration).
My housekeeper has got married meanwhile, and chances that I'll ever see him again and meet his wife are slim (I paid for the wedding, of course).
Guess my dogs and cats will have to find a new home via Animal Rescue.
I know some of you have lost much more than I did. Still, I want to puke when I think of all the hours and days and weeks I have spent at various Notary offices, instead of visiting other parts of India while I had the chance, and spend my money staying in 5 star hotels instead.
I still dread the inevitable moment when the real grief will set in (once I'll be lifted from my current state of utter petrification).
Sorry for this really long post, it makes me feel slightly better to have written it all off my soul.
I'm glad I discovered this thread and have read Douglas's (and others) truly enlightening posts about this topic, else I might have thrown even more good money after the bad one. Now I know for sure that regardless of my visa situation my cause is a lost one. My only hope is that I'll somehow be able to transfer my company shares to Indian friends, before the crooked local politicians seize it. From what things look like, even that is probably unrealistic, though.
Looking for another place to spend winters at now.
Condolences to all of you who have been screwed.
Yours truly,
Steph, The German Fool
please forgive my intrusion, as I am not really a British Expat, but rather a German one.
I've read every single post in this thread now, and boy, do I wish I had found it earlier.
I am still petrified, as before having discovered this thread, I had no clue as to what extent and at what scale people have been conned out of their life's savings.
Let me share my story with you, as another warning to those who still play with the thought of setting up business in Goa or purchasing land.
Like many of you, I fell in love with Goa quite a while ago, in my case in early 1996. Ever since I've spent as much time there as possible, working towards the ultimate goal of settling there, at least during the winter months.
My business as an IT consultant suffered quite a lot under this, as I frequently turned down offers for new long time projects and contract renewals in order to be able to come to Goa and "sort my stuff" there.
I've been renting quite a huge ancestral Portuguese villa in Vagator since 2001, and was lucky enough to find a completely trustworthy Assamese employee who has since been taking care of the house during my absence as well as in my presence. The formerly decrepit structure was beautifully renovated and furnished, and the desert like garden was turned into a sea of flowers by my employee, whom I nowadays regard as a close friend of mine.
I've been one of the first in the village to receive a fibre optic TV and internet connection in order to be able to work from there, and have since 2001 introduced basically my whole circle of friends and acquaintances to Goa, most of whom have become regular visitors, spending their whole holidays there every year.
We have got 2 dogs and 2 cats, and I've made donations to both the temple in Chapora as well as to St. Anthony's church in Vagator. I've had many a drink (no 'noffies, in my case it's DSP or Royal Stag) with the locals (at local bars), and have no doubt gained some popularity among them.
I've hosted classical Indian live music events, free entrance, free food, free drinks (invitation required of course).
I was in the middle of learning Hindi, already understanding 50% of the Bollywood dialogues and I am able to follow a basic "bazaari hindi" conversation.
I have got very good friends in Bombay (oh, sorry, Mumbai I meant), was invited to two weddings there so far, and have been Best Man at one of them.
I've even studied the cricket rules!
So far, so good, until in 2005 I decided to buy a piece of land, in my beloved Vagator. The opportunity was too good to be true. 825 sqare meters of land, for 5 lakhs. Clear title, and categorized as "settlement area" (verified at the Mamlatdar's office).
I've studied the FEMA regulations, and came to the conclusion that the company route was the one to go, since I had always dreamt of opening a nice little bar and restaurant, with a few rooms to rent out, not to make huge profit, but just enough for the whole undertaking to eventually become self sufficient (and to secure my employee's future).
At the time, I was in India on a 5 year Tourist visa (back then easily obtainable in Germany), and had no problems to register as a resident at the FRRO in Panaji. The 180-days endorsement stamp on the visa was missing (it did not occur to me then that that was an accident). We (2 Germans) faced no problems registering our Pvt. Ltd. Company, Tourism sector, 100% foreign capital.
We also managed to have our Sales Deed registered in the company's name.
The problems started with the MCA moving on to e-Government, and having mistyped the CIN (Corporate ID Number) in the process of computerizing the documents. This delayed the Mutation, and also made it impossible for me to get certified documents of our Incorporation, halted the process of obtaining DIN and so on.
Our 5 year visas came to an end, and we had to apply for new ones. Of course I applied for business visa. I was refused because of lack of proof. So, I got a 1 year tourist visa instead (the consulate being aware of me having founded a Goan company at this time).
Meanwhile, the register was closed to FN's and I was not able to do the mutation (although I am in possession of a registered Deed), since the Goan authorities seem to have a hard time understanding the difference between a foreigner and a foreign-owned Goan company.
I returned, sorted all my stuff, got all the necessary papers sorted in order to apply for business visa, filed all the tax stuff, paid loads of money to my CA, and hoped for the best.
The end of this (too long) story:
My application for business visa has been referred to MHA, my passport is stamped "V.A.F.", and I haven't heard anything for 3 months now.
I was told at the CGI that I "wasn't supposed to form a company while on tourist visa".
My flight to India has left without me 2 months ago, I am sitting here, at -9°C, and from what I gather here and on IndiaMike, chances are very slim that I'll eventually get my business visa.
No European head office, no trade so far, and a property acquisition in question.
I won't be elegible for tourist visa, either, since I am still a Director of an Indian Company.
Even if I receive a visa in the future, it might not be wise to actually go, since I might end up at Aguada in handcuffs (ok, that might be an exaggeration).
My housekeeper has got married meanwhile, and chances that I'll ever see him again and meet his wife are slim (I paid for the wedding, of course).
Guess my dogs and cats will have to find a new home via Animal Rescue.
I know some of you have lost much more than I did. Still, I want to puke when I think of all the hours and days and weeks I have spent at various Notary offices, instead of visiting other parts of India while I had the chance, and spend my money staying in 5 star hotels instead.
I still dread the inevitable moment when the real grief will set in (once I'll be lifted from my current state of utter petrification).
Sorry for this really long post, it makes me feel slightly better to have written it all off my soul.
I'm glad I discovered this thread and have read Douglas's (and others) truly enlightening posts about this topic, else I might have thrown even more good money after the bad one. Now I know for sure that regardless of my visa situation my cause is a lost one. My only hope is that I'll somehow be able to transfer my company shares to Indian friends, before the crooked local politicians seize it. From what things look like, even that is probably unrealistic, though.
Looking for another place to spend winters at now.
Condolences to all of you who have been screwed.
Yours truly,
Steph, The German Fool
Last edited by GermanFool; Dec 17th 2009 at 1:12 pm.
Dec 17th 2009, 3:24 pm
#2825
Joined: May 2007
Location: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
Posts: 8,227
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hello everyone,
please forgive my intrusion, as I am not really a British Expat, but rather a German one.
I've read every single post in this thread now, and boy, do I wish I had found it earlier.
I am still petrified, as before having discovered this thread, I had no clue as to what extent and at what scale people have been conned out of their life's savings.
Let me share my story with you, as another warning to those who still play with the thought of setting up business in Goa or purchasing land.
Like many of you, I fell in love with Goa quite a while ago, in my case in early 1996. Ever since I've spent as much time there as possible, working towards the ultimate goal of settling there, at least during the winter months.
My business as an IT consultant suffered quite a lot under this, as I frequently turned down offers for new long time projects and contract renewals in order to be able to come to Goa and "sort my stuff" there.
I've been renting quite a huge ancestral Portuguese villa in Vagator since 2001, and was lucky enough to find a completely trustworthy Assamese employee who has since been taking care of the house during my absence as well as in my presence. The formerly decrepit structure was beautifully renovated and furnished, and the desert like garden was turned into a sea of flowers by my employee, whom I nowadays regard as a close friend of mine.
I've been one of the first in the village to receive a fibre optic TV and internet connection in order to be able to work from there, and have since 2001 introduced basically my whole circle of friends and acquaintances to Goa, most of whom have become regular visitors, spending their whole holidays there every year.
We have got 2 dogs and 2 cats, and I've made donations to both the temple in Chapora as well as to St. Anthony's church in Vagator. I've had many a drink (no 'noffies, in my case it's DSP or Royal Stag) with the locals (at local bars), and have no doubt gained some popularity among them.
I've hosted classical Indian live music events, free entrance, free food, free drinks (invitation required of course).
I was in the middle of learning Hindi, already understanding 50% of the Bollywood dialogues and I am able to follow a basic "bazaari hindi" conversation.
I have got very good friends in Bombay (oh, sorry, Mumbai I meant), was invited to two weddings there so far, and have been Best Man at one of them.
I've even studied the cricket rules!
So far, so good, until in 2005 I decided to buy a piece of land, in my beloved Vagator. The opportunity was too good to be true. 825 sqare meters of land, for 5 lakhs. Clear title, and categorized as "settlement area" (verified at the Mamlatdar's office).
I've studied the FEMA regulations, and came to the conclusion that the company route was the one to go, since I had always dreamt of opening a nice little bar and restaurant, with a few rooms to rent out, not to make huge profit, but just enough for the whole undertaking to eventually become self sufficient (and to secure my employee's future).
At the time, I was in India on a 5 year Tourist visa (back then easily obtainable in Germany), and had no problems to register as a resident at the FRRO in Panaji. The 180-days endorsement stamp on the visa was missing (it did not occur to me then that that was an accident). We (2 Germans) faced no problems registering our Pvt. Ltd. Company, Tourism sector, 100% foreign capital.
We also managed to have our Sales Deed registered in the company's name.
The problems started with the MCA moving on to e-Government, and having mistyped the CIN (Corporate ID Number) in the process of computerizing the documents. This delayed the Mutation, and also made it impossible for me to get certified documents of our Incorporation, halted the process of obtaining DIN and so on.
Our 5 year visas came to an end, and we had to apply for new ones. Of course I applied for business visa. I was refused because of lack of proof. So, I got a 1 year tourist visa instead (the consulate being aware of me having founded a Goan company at this time).
Meanwhile, the register was closed to FN's and I was not able to do the mutation (although I am in possession of a registered Deed), since the Goan authorities seem to have a hard time understanding the difference between a foreigner and a foreign-owned Goan company.
I returned, sorted all my stuff, got all the necessary papers sorted in order to apply for business visa, filed all the tax stuff, paid loads of money to my CA, and hoped for the best.
The end of this (too long) story:
My application for business visa has been referred to MHA, my passport is stamped "V.A.F.", and I haven't heard anything for 3 months now.
I was told at the CGI that I "wasn't supposed to form a company while on tourist visa".
My flight to India has left without me 2 months ago, I am sitting here, at -9°C, and from what I gather here and on IndiaMike, chances are very slim that I'll eventually get my business visa.
No European head office, no trade so far, and a property acquisition in question.
I won't be elegible for tourist visa, either, since I am still a Director of an Indian Company.
Even if I receive a visa in the future, it might not be wise to actually go, since I might end up at Aguada in handcuffs (ok, that might be an exaggeration).
My housekeeper has got married meanwhile, and chances that I'll ever see him again and meet his wife are slim (I paid for the wedding, of course).
Guess my dogs and cats will have to find a new home via Animal Rescue.
I know some of you have lost much more than I did. Still, I want to puke when I think of all the hours and days and weeks I have spent at various Notary offices, instead of visiting other parts of India while I had the chance, and spend my money staying in 5 star hotels instead.
I still dread the inevitable moment when the real grief will set in (once I'll be lifted from my current state of utter petrification).
Sorry for this really long post, it makes me feel slightly better to have written it all off my soul.
I'm glad I discovered this thread and have read Douglas's (and others) truly enlightening posts about this topic, else I might have thrown even more good money after the bad one. Now I know for sure that regardless of my visa situation my cause is a lost one. My only hope is that I'll somehow be able to transfer my company shares to Indian friends, before the crooked local politicians seize it. From what things look like, even that is probably unrealistic, though.
Looking for another place to spend winters at now.
Condolences to all of you who have been screwed.
Yours truly,
Steph, The German Fool
please forgive my intrusion, as I am not really a British Expat, but rather a German one.
I've read every single post in this thread now, and boy, do I wish I had found it earlier.
I am still petrified, as before having discovered this thread, I had no clue as to what extent and at what scale people have been conned out of their life's savings.
Let me share my story with you, as another warning to those who still play with the thought of setting up business in Goa or purchasing land.
Like many of you, I fell in love with Goa quite a while ago, in my case in early 1996. Ever since I've spent as much time there as possible, working towards the ultimate goal of settling there, at least during the winter months.
My business as an IT consultant suffered quite a lot under this, as I frequently turned down offers for new long time projects and contract renewals in order to be able to come to Goa and "sort my stuff" there.
I've been renting quite a huge ancestral Portuguese villa in Vagator since 2001, and was lucky enough to find a completely trustworthy Assamese employee who has since been taking care of the house during my absence as well as in my presence. The formerly decrepit structure was beautifully renovated and furnished, and the desert like garden was turned into a sea of flowers by my employee, whom I nowadays regard as a close friend of mine.
I've been one of the first in the village to receive a fibre optic TV and internet connection in order to be able to work from there, and have since 2001 introduced basically my whole circle of friends and acquaintances to Goa, most of whom have become regular visitors, spending their whole holidays there every year.
We have got 2 dogs and 2 cats, and I've made donations to both the temple in Chapora as well as to St. Anthony's church in Vagator. I've had many a drink (no 'noffies, in my case it's DSP or Royal Stag) with the locals (at local bars), and have no doubt gained some popularity among them.
I've hosted classical Indian live music events, free entrance, free food, free drinks (invitation required of course).
I was in the middle of learning Hindi, already understanding 50% of the Bollywood dialogues and I am able to follow a basic "bazaari hindi" conversation.
I have got very good friends in Bombay (oh, sorry, Mumbai I meant), was invited to two weddings there so far, and have been Best Man at one of them.
I've even studied the cricket rules!
So far, so good, until in 2005 I decided to buy a piece of land, in my beloved Vagator. The opportunity was too good to be true. 825 sqare meters of land, for 5 lakhs. Clear title, and categorized as "settlement area" (verified at the Mamlatdar's office).
I've studied the FEMA regulations, and came to the conclusion that the company route was the one to go, since I had always dreamt of opening a nice little bar and restaurant, with a few rooms to rent out, not to make huge profit, but just enough for the whole undertaking to eventually become self sufficient (and to secure my employee's future).
At the time, I was in India on a 5 year Tourist visa (back then easily obtainable in Germany), and had no problems to register as a resident at the FRRO in Panaji. The 180-days endorsement stamp on the visa was missing (it did not occur to me then that that was an accident). We (2 Germans) faced no problems registering our Pvt. Ltd. Company, Tourism sector, 100% foreign capital.
We also managed to have our Sales Deed registered in the company's name.
The problems started with the MCA moving on to e-Government, and having mistyped the CIN (Corporate ID Number) in the process of computerizing the documents. This delayed the Mutation, and also made it impossible for me to get certified documents of our Incorporation, halted the process of obtaining DIN and so on.
Our 5 year visas came to an end, and we had to apply for new ones. Of course I applied for business visa. I was refused because of lack of proof. So, I got a 1 year tourist visa instead (the consulate being aware of me having founded a Goan company at this time).
Meanwhile, the register was closed to FN's and I was not able to do the mutation (although I am in possession of a registered Deed), since the Goan authorities seem to have a hard time understanding the difference between a foreigner and a foreign-owned Goan company.
I returned, sorted all my stuff, got all the necessary papers sorted in order to apply for business visa, filed all the tax stuff, paid loads of money to my CA, and hoped for the best.
The end of this (too long) story:
My application for business visa has been referred to MHA, my passport is stamped "V.A.F.", and I haven't heard anything for 3 months now.
I was told at the CGI that I "wasn't supposed to form a company while on tourist visa".
My flight to India has left without me 2 months ago, I am sitting here, at -9°C, and from what I gather here and on IndiaMike, chances are very slim that I'll eventually get my business visa.
No European head office, no trade so far, and a property acquisition in question.
I won't be elegible for tourist visa, either, since I am still a Director of an Indian Company.
Even if I receive a visa in the future, it might not be wise to actually go, since I might end up at Aguada in handcuffs (ok, that might be an exaggeration).
My housekeeper has got married meanwhile, and chances that I'll ever see him again and meet his wife are slim (I paid for the wedding, of course).
Guess my dogs and cats will have to find a new home via Animal Rescue.
I know some of you have lost much more than I did. Still, I want to puke when I think of all the hours and days and weeks I have spent at various Notary offices, instead of visiting other parts of India while I had the chance, and spend my money staying in 5 star hotels instead.
I still dread the inevitable moment when the real grief will set in (once I'll be lifted from my current state of utter petrification).
Sorry for this really long post, it makes me feel slightly better to have written it all off my soul.
I'm glad I discovered this thread and have read Douglas's (and others) truly enlightening posts about this topic, else I might have thrown even more good money after the bad one. Now I know for sure that regardless of my visa situation my cause is a lost one. My only hope is that I'll somehow be able to transfer my company shares to Indian friends, before the crooked local politicians seize it. From what things look like, even that is probably unrealistic, though.
Looking for another place to spend winters at now.
Condolences to all of you who have been screwed.
Yours truly,
Steph, The German Fool
You have not got to be British to participate in our posts, help is needed for all FN's
Dec 17th 2009, 7:50 pm
#2826
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 266
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi Steff. 
Good to have someone from another EU country to give us a different perspective on things. You are obviously no fool if you have worked as a consultant and set up your own business. There are those caught up in this fiasco who have done far less research than you.
Please remain with us and share your story and thoughts with us. There are many here who will understand your feelings. An old British proverb states 'a problem shared is a problem halved' and I have found this to be true on this site in particular. In Goa an FN is an FN. Shame we can't get in touch with some Russians as well. Welcome friend
Good to have someone from another EU country to give us a different perspective on things. You are obviously no fool if you have worked as a consultant and set up your own business. There are those caught up in this fiasco who have done far less research than you.Please remain with us and share your story and thoughts with us. There are many here who will understand your feelings. An old British proverb states 'a problem shared is a problem halved' and I have found this to be true on this site in particular. In Goa an FN is an FN. Shame we can't get in touch with some Russians as well. Welcome friend
Dec 17th 2009, 9:20 pm
#2827
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,680
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi Steph
Welcome aboard and thank you for displaying such candour in your first post. I am sorry to hear of the position you find yourself in, which mirrors that of so many of the good people on this site. The sense of loss runs so much deeper than the money invested as we all invested in that love of Goa.
You are in the good company here of many of us 'fools' - who are not fools at all, just ordinary law abiding people who tried to buy ourselves a home in Goa, and were then misled by Goan licensed professionals - despite these so called 'professionals' being paid a fair sum for their 'services'.
Basically the Goan Govt do not want any foreign nationals owning property in Goa and will blatantly twist and flagrate the laws of the land to serve their purpose, especially when they can see a 'get rich quick' scam for their own ends !!
The issue of the business v tourist visa is an ongoing one, however there is no mention in FEMA of any type of visa when setting up a company. Also considering you have to supply copies of passports and visas at the time of registering a company, one would expect this factor to be raised by the Ministry of Corporate Affairs at the time of inception, IF this process required a business visa !!
You may wish to check re the tourist visa because I don't think being a director of an Indian company would bar you from tourist status if you would not be trading whilst there.
Please do cast your vote on the 'Save Goa' poll on this site - EVERY vote counts. There is some behind the scenes work going on, details of which cannot be publicised on open site for obvious reasons - just know that every vote on the poll supports the work being done to try and help us all.
Again welcome aboard and I for one look forward to seeing more from you on here.
Dread - Our homes - our castles !!
x
Welcome aboard and thank you for displaying such candour in your first post. I am sorry to hear of the position you find yourself in, which mirrors that of so many of the good people on this site. The sense of loss runs so much deeper than the money invested as we all invested in that love of Goa.
You are in the good company here of many of us 'fools' - who are not fools at all, just ordinary law abiding people who tried to buy ourselves a home in Goa, and were then misled by Goan licensed professionals - despite these so called 'professionals' being paid a fair sum for their 'services'.
Basically the Goan Govt do not want any foreign nationals owning property in Goa and will blatantly twist and flagrate the laws of the land to serve their purpose, especially when they can see a 'get rich quick' scam for their own ends !!
The issue of the business v tourist visa is an ongoing one, however there is no mention in FEMA of any type of visa when setting up a company. Also considering you have to supply copies of passports and visas at the time of registering a company, one would expect this factor to be raised by the Ministry of Corporate Affairs at the time of inception, IF this process required a business visa !!
You may wish to check re the tourist visa because I don't think being a director of an Indian company would bar you from tourist status if you would not be trading whilst there.
Please do cast your vote on the 'Save Goa' poll on this site - EVERY vote counts. There is some behind the scenes work going on, details of which cannot be publicised on open site for obvious reasons - just know that every vote on the poll supports the work being done to try and help us all.
Again welcome aboard and I for one look forward to seeing more from you on here.
Dread - Our homes - our castles !!
x
Last edited by dreadsoc; Dec 17th 2009 at 9:36 pm.
Dec 18th 2009, 2:31 am
#2828
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 56
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Thank you for the warm welcome!
There is certainly some truth to that proverb, problem shared is problem halved.
And of course I'll keep you updated on my situation, and will try and answer any questions.
That's what puzzles me, too and it's outrageous but somewhat typical for the whole situation. While it all is probably just caused by the left hand not knowing what the right is doing, it sure does look like a trap deliberately set up to catch unsuspecting FNs.
Well, right now my passport is stamped "V.A.F.", which effectively bars me from applying for another visa, until this application is processed.
3 months and counting...
Also, once it is refused, I will have to mention that fact in each subsequent application, which, I am afraid, will put me in the "referral" drawer again automatically.
Done. 
There is certainly some truth to that proverb, problem shared is problem halved.
And of course I'll keep you updated on my situation, and will try and answer any questions.
You may wish to check re the tourist visa because I don't think being a director of an Indian company would bar you from tourist status if you would not be trading whilst there.
3 months and counting...
Also, once it is refused, I will have to mention that fact in each subsequent application, which, I am afraid, will put me in the "referral" drawer again automatically.
Please do cast your vote on the 'Save Goa' poll on this site - EVERY vote counts. There is some behind the scenes work going on, details of which cannot be publicised on open site for obvious reasons - just know that every vote on the poll supports the work being done to try and help us all.
Dec 18th 2009, 4:07 am
#2829
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,941
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
...Well, right now my passport is stamped "V.A.F."...
I'm curious as to how that happened - based on what I know about visa applications in the UK you either get the visa you asked for, or a lesser one (or maybe a refusal though I've never met anyone who was refused). If there is some problem they just hang on to your passport.
I guess your experience was different?
AndyD 8-)#
Dec 18th 2009, 4:24 am
#2830
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 56
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
I'm curious as to how that happened - based on what I know about visa applications in the UK you either get the visa you asked for, or a lesser one (or maybe a refusal though I've never met anyone who was refused). If there is some problem they just hang on to your passport.
I guess your experience was different?
I guess your experience was different?
I received my passport back, together with a letter, stating that my passport was "duly stamped V.A.F (Visa applied for)" and that my application was sent to the MHA in Delhi.
It says they will contact me once they have a reply.
While I was waiting there (for several hours), I witnessed an ugly scene, btw.
A lady who tried to apply for business visa as well was told to bring additional papers, some of which she apparently was not able to obtain.
She raised her voice and insisted.
The guy at the counter then took her passport, disappeared to another room, returned 2 minutes later, handed her back her passport and said "You will not receive any visa from us, please go now."
BTW the CGI Munich were also the ones who refused Ingo's visa application earlier this year (the saturday night bazaar guy).
Things have definitely changed.
Yours,
Steph
Last edited by GermanFool; Dec 18th 2009 at 4:44 am.
Dec 18th 2009, 7:12 am
#2831
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 266
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
In Germany, which Consulate you have to go to for visa depends on the state you live in. The CGI Frankfurt has an outsourcing system similar to the one in the UK. In Munich, we still apply personally.
I received my passport back, together with a letter, stating that my passport was "duly stamped V.A.F (Visa applied for)" and that my application was sent to the MHA in Delhi.
It says they will contact me once they have a reply.
While I was waiting there (for several hours), I witnessed an ugly scene, btw.
A lady who tried to apply for business visa as well was told to bring additional papers, some of which she apparently was not able to obtain.
She raised her voice and insisted.
The guy at the counter then took her passport, disappeared to another room, returned 2 minutes later, handed her back her passport and said "You will not receive any visa from us, please go now."
BTW the CGI Munich were also the ones who refused Ingo's visa application earlier this year (the saturday night bazaar guy).
Things have definitely changed.
Yours,
Steph
I received my passport back, together with a letter, stating that my passport was "duly stamped V.A.F (Visa applied for)" and that my application was sent to the MHA in Delhi.
It says they will contact me once they have a reply.
While I was waiting there (for several hours), I witnessed an ugly scene, btw.
A lady who tried to apply for business visa as well was told to bring additional papers, some of which she apparently was not able to obtain.
She raised her voice and insisted.
The guy at the counter then took her passport, disappeared to another room, returned 2 minutes later, handed her back her passport and said "You will not receive any visa from us, please go now."
BTW the CGI Munich were also the ones who refused Ingo's visa application earlier this year (the saturday night bazaar guy).
Things have definitely changed.
Yours,
Steph
Dec 18th 2009, 11:27 am
#2832
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,685
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi German Fool,
A very warm welcome to BE and thanks for posting your story.
I had never heard of the VAF take on visas before and it makes very interesting reading.
Even as a PIO i would never buy again in Goa......there is just way too much uncertainty involved!!!
Visas of any description can be granted or denied without reason and even with a valid visa you can still be denied access into the country again without a reason being given!
Somebody on this site once said they would never buy property in a country which required entry visas......and i think this is turning out to be a very valid point.
Anyway, Welcome Aboard
Regards,
Remy
PS.
For those of you who haven't seen it, here is the warning posted on the British Foreign & Commonwealth Office website in the India General section,
Purchasing Property
You are advised to seek comprehensive legal advice from a reliable source before investing in immovable property or businesses in India. There have been a significant number of cases where British citizens and other foreign nationals have encountered serious difficulties, often apparently as a result of misleading advice from unscrupulous agents and by not adhering to strict visa and FEMA regulations resulting in (often unwitting) illegal acquisition of property. There are strict rules preventing the purchase of property by non-Indian nationals (for example in Goa), which cannot be bypassed (e.g. by registering a local company for the sole purpose of acquiring a property). If the purchase is judged to violate local laws (including if you purchase whilst on a tourist visa), you are likely to lose all the money you have put in to the purchase, and may even face prosecution.
A very warm welcome to BE and thanks for posting your story.
I had never heard of the VAF take on visas before and it makes very interesting reading.
Even as a PIO i would never buy again in Goa......there is just way too much uncertainty involved!!!
Visas of any description can be granted or denied without reason and even with a valid visa you can still be denied access into the country again without a reason being given!
Somebody on this site once said they would never buy property in a country which required entry visas......and i think this is turning out to be a very valid point.
Anyway, Welcome Aboard
Regards,
Remy
PS.
For those of you who haven't seen it, here is the warning posted on the British Foreign & Commonwealth Office website in the India General section,
Purchasing Property
You are advised to seek comprehensive legal advice from a reliable source before investing in immovable property or businesses in India. There have been a significant number of cases where British citizens and other foreign nationals have encountered serious difficulties, often apparently as a result of misleading advice from unscrupulous agents and by not adhering to strict visa and FEMA regulations resulting in (often unwitting) illegal acquisition of property. There are strict rules preventing the purchase of property by non-Indian nationals (for example in Goa), which cannot be bypassed (e.g. by registering a local company for the sole purpose of acquiring a property). If the purchase is judged to violate local laws (including if you purchase whilst on a tourist visa), you are likely to lose all the money you have put in to the purchase, and may even face prosecution.
Last edited by Remy-Ireland; Dec 18th 2009 at 11:35 am.
Dec 18th 2009, 12:13 pm
#2833
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 56
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Thank you, Remy!
I wish I had seen that advisory earlier, like, in 2004... 
Now this is the part that really scares me. My own definition of "sole purpose" might very well differ substantially from the one the Goan Authorities have.
Call me paranoid, but I wouldn't be surprised if they construed some sort of "fraudulent act" from my side for going the company route.
I'm really not sure if I want to take the risk to step foot in that country ever again, even if I should miraculously receive my visa.
Prosecution in India is something I'm definitely not willing to take the slightest chance at.
I've unfortunately been in denial for long enough, but thanks to you guys (and especially Douglas) my eyes are wide open now.
I guess we all agree that at this point, and for quite some time now, things keep constantly getting worse, without such a thing as a light at the end of the tunnel.
Yours,
Steph
There are strict rules preventing the purchase of property by non-Indian nationals (for example in Goa), which cannot be bypassed (e.g. by registering a local company for the sole purpose of acquiring a property). If the purchase is judged to violate local laws (including if you purchase whilst on a tourist visa), you are likely to lose all the money you have put in to the purchase, and may even face prosecution.
Call me paranoid, but I wouldn't be surprised if they construed some sort of "fraudulent act" from my side for going the company route.
I'm really not sure if I want to take the risk to step foot in that country ever again, even if I should miraculously receive my visa.
Prosecution in India is something I'm definitely not willing to take the slightest chance at.
I've unfortunately been in denial for long enough, but thanks to you guys (and especially Douglas) my eyes are wide open now.
I guess we all agree that at this point, and for quite some time now, things keep constantly getting worse, without such a thing as a light at the end of the tunnel.
Yours,
Steph
Last edited by GermanFool; Dec 18th 2009 at 12:20 pm.
Dec 18th 2009, 1:36 pm
#2834
Joined: May 2007
Location: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
Posts: 8,227
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi German Fool,
A very warm welcome to BE and thanks for posting your story.
I had never heard of the VAF take on visas before and it makes very interesting reading.
Even as a PIO i would never buy again in Goa......there is just way too much uncertainty involved!!!
Visas of any description can be granted or denied without reason and even with a valid visa you can still be denied access into the country again without a reason being given!
Somebody on this site once said they would never buy property in a country which required entry visas......and i think this is turning out to be a very valid point.
Anyway, Welcome Aboard
Regards,
Remy
PS.
For those of you who haven't seen it, here is the warning posted on the British Foreign & Commonwealth Office website in the India General section,
Purchasing Property
You are advised to seek comprehensive legal advice from a reliable source before investing in immovable property or businesses in India. There have been a significant number of cases where British citizens and other foreign nationals have encountered serious difficulties, often apparently as a result of misleading advice from unscrupulous agents and by not adhering to strict visa and FEMA regulations resulting in (often unwitting) illegal acquisition of property. There are strict rules preventing the purchase of property by non-Indian nationals (for example in Goa), which cannot be bypassed (e.g. by registering a local company for the sole purpose of acquiring a property). If the purchase is judged to violate local laws (including if you purchase whilst on a tourist visa), you are likely to lose all the money you have put in to the purchase, and may even face prosecution.
A very warm welcome to BE and thanks for posting your story.
I had never heard of the VAF take on visas before and it makes very interesting reading.
Even as a PIO i would never buy again in Goa......there is just way too much uncertainty involved!!!
Visas of any description can be granted or denied without reason and even with a valid visa you can still be denied access into the country again without a reason being given!
Somebody on this site once said they would never buy property in a country which required entry visas......and i think this is turning out to be a very valid point.
Anyway, Welcome Aboard
Regards,
Remy
PS.
For those of you who haven't seen it, here is the warning posted on the British Foreign & Commonwealth Office website in the India General section,
Purchasing Property
You are advised to seek comprehensive legal advice from a reliable source before investing in immovable property or businesses in India. There have been a significant number of cases where British citizens and other foreign nationals have encountered serious difficulties, often apparently as a result of misleading advice from unscrupulous agents and by not adhering to strict visa and FEMA regulations resulting in (often unwitting) illegal acquisition of property. There are strict rules preventing the purchase of property by non-Indian nationals (for example in Goa), which cannot be bypassed (e.g. by registering a local company for the sole purpose of acquiring a property). If the purchase is judged to violate local laws (including if you purchase whilst on a tourist visa), you are likely to lose all the money you have put in to the purchase, and may even face prosecution.
Bit late now innit! Is this our Governments way of say tough ...... to us.
Would love to know who they would recommend as their reliable legal source - don't they understand nobody reads FEMA the same way.
Dec 18th 2009, 2:27 pm
#2835
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 234
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Regards,
Davie.
