Garonne

The thing is about fines PB is that with a 'normal' French resident they're not normally imposed for a single first offence if the avis d'impot proves they have no income but in her case I think if massive fines are imposed her home will be reposessed. I still think she'll get a custodial sentence.

Peabrain

I'm afraid I have to agree. She no doubt will find herself faced with prison, which is why it is so vital for her to have some form of on-the-spot assistance. Johann is doing sterling work, but from afar.
PB

PS Shouldn't you add to your list of offences 'driving without a valid licence' since her licence is a British one and she's been over here driving around on it for the past eight years?

EuroTrash

I'm still not really getting this. Are we 100% sure that, technically, she can be charged with drink driving if she wasn't seen driving, stopped and breathalysed? It's obvious she was, but the evidence is nonetheless circumstantial. Technically speaking.

Do we know yet whether she has produced her documents and whether the police have established that there is no insurance?

If she presents herself as a non-resident would they still give a prison sentence?

I don't get the 'valid licence' thing either, it seems a tad unlikely that she's bothered to update her photocard if it expired but maybe it didn't, and even if the licence expired her 'entitlement to drive' would still be valid. There is no blanket obligation to change your licence for a French one. If you have a UK licence then even as a French resident, AFAIK you can drive on it for 50 years if you want, as long as you don't drive for a living and don't commit infractions and be obliged to change it for that reason.

dmu

... you aren't the only one. No one on this forum is 100% sure of anything, since the OP isn't either.
I myself can't get my head round the idea that the French partner lived 8 years under the friend's roof without getting her "régularisée" in all respects. As mentioned in another thread, all French people know the maxim "Ignorance of the law is no excuse", but then maybe he did try, or didn't care either. Who knows?
Presumably the friend has meanwhile consulted a Doctor so that she can get her medication in France? As mentioned, 23€ for a consultation + the cost of the medication (the Doc and pharmacie will give her a Feuille de Soins since they aren't obliged to know that she's not covered by the S.S.). This seems to be the only thing that she's worried about, so the OP can at least check up on that aspect....

Garonne

Right from the start when the OP said she'd been 'stopped', twice in the same sentence that was how the drink driving issue was raised. I also can't see how unless the car which drew attention to an officer was seen to be driven by the woman and subsequently saw her go into the police station when she was then breathalysed how she or why she would be breathalysed. She really must come clean to the OP about what the true story is here.

It's routine to produce all your documents if requested by the police so they're going to find out she has no insurance. But still, if she wasn't seen to be driving the vehicle I agree, how can she be charged with drink driving?

Johann - you have to ask her some more questions. The other reason you can be breathylised at the police station is if you are giving a statement for any unrelated driving matter and they can just demand you do so with no justification. A statement will not be taken by anyone who is over the drink limit. So is this perhaps why she was breathalysed? If so why did your original post say she was 'stopped' and breathalysed? If she wasn't seen to be driving the vehicle (or parked in it sitting in the driving seat on a public road) I have jumped to conclusions about the drink driving charge. Unless of course the other sneaky thing the police officer could have done was seen her car, gone back in and asked her if it was her vehicle and if so, had she driven it to the police station. Then that would be a drink driving reason if she admitted she had.

Yes, someone who lives in France but has never been declared can be imprisoned. Presumably the habitation and fonciere taxes won't have the property registered as a maison secondaire but as her principal residence.

jsbach

I have spoken to my friend again this evening. One issue is clearer:
She was stopped by a traffic policeman after she left the Gendarmerie, who saw her drive by with a broken wing mirror. He then saw the bald tyres. She was taken to the Gendarmerie where she was breathalysed. She was told the reading was over the limit, but not which of the two limits it exceeded.
She seems to have been told that her infringements will be dealt with at the Gendarmerie when she goes later this month. I don't know whether this means she's only going to be facing minor charges or whether this occasion will be when charges are laid before her, for a subsequent court appearance.
She seems convinced the gendarmes haven't noticed the absence of car insurance.

EuroTrash

Rats, so she was stopped and breathalysed after all.

If she was told to produce her car documents, the administrative ball will have been set in motion and won't be stopped until or unless somebody signs each item off as seen, checked and in order. So unless they felt sorry for her, or really don't want the hassle of English paperwork, having an uninsured car will likely pop up as one of the items on the list of infractions that is being prepared for the end of March.

All you can do really is, be there for her. Bon courage.

dmu

There must have been a more serious reason than a wing mirror and bald tyres for "being taken" to the Gendarmerie and breathalysed, which your friend hasn't disclosed.
We were once stopped for a spot check by the Gendarmes, who noticed that the tyres were "non-conformes". All else being in order, they politely told us to change them ASAP, and saluted us on our way. No question of going to the Gendarmerie, but maybe we were just lucky.
The "traffic policeman" (presumably a Gendarme, as policemen are only operative in large towns, in which case she would have been taken to the Commissariat) will surely have made a breathalyser test, if he thought it necessary, on the spot.
As a matter of interest, what ID did your friend present to the Gendarme? Presumably her Passport, but this obviously doesn't mention her French address, neither does her British Driving Licence.

Garonne

In drink driving cases your licence is taken off you immediately if you are breathalysed on the spot unless you are seriously injured and can't give a breath test and it's proven positive by a hospital blood test. Rather ironically, in this case you keep your licence and can still drive untill your court case. If the police removed it, your suspension at court takes off the time between the offence and the court case. As she presumably doesn't have a French licence they can't do this. Have you asked her whether they asked to see or have retained her UK licence?

Her destiny lies in the amount she was over the limit. 0.5 to 0.8 g (which is perhaps two small beers or a large glass of wine) may be dealt with the the gendarmerie. Over that it will be the courts. It is a very, very complicated case because of her UK vehicle - are the gendarmes currently perhaps under the impression that she isn't a French resident? Her insurance documents and proof of roadworthiness of the vehicle will unquestionably be required.

http://amende.comprendrechoisir.com/...cool-au-volant

dmu

This is why I asked what ID the friend presented.
But the answer may be of interest to all EU expats who only have a Passport as ID. How do they justify their residence here unless they carry a recent Utility Bill or copy of their Taxe d'Hab with them all the time? (I'm permanently thankful to have a French Carte d'Identité with present address, by dint of marriage. You never know when you'll need to present ID and proof of residence....).

EuroTrash

Your avis d'imposition seems to be the gold standard for proving residency.

Obviously not something you carry around with you - but something you always keep in a safe place, so easy enough to find it if necessary.

If you're stopped in the car, your carte grise should ( ) have your address on it, which would be enough to satify a gendarme's casual curiosity.

jsbach

She told me yesterday that the gendarmes have told her she isn't allowed to drive on French soil until after the "hearing". She presented her UK passport as proof of identity and, as far as I can ascertain, will have provided her UK driving licence. I'm becoming more convinced in the view that the gendarmes think she's a UK resident. This is a pity, since I'm also becoming convinced that the only likelihood of her detoxifying is as a result of a prison sentence.

EuroTrash

I suspect that at some stage somebody will take great care to establish proof of address, if only to ensure they don't lose track of her after the hearing!

Garonne

But if she is a home owner she must be paying taxe d'hab and fonciere and will therefore be registered into the impots system as a French resident? OMG if she tries to get away with this by declaring she isn't a French resident at all, jeez. She'll be in even more trouble. You are being so supportive of her Johann but you must try to advise her to be absolutely honest about the fact that she is a French resident and not try to get off lightly by driving a UK vehicle under the influence as a UK resident. But she's going to face a few more questions than just how long have you been 'on holiday' in France and they will look into the declaration of the residence, ie residence principale ou maison secondaire before this is all done and dusted ... You need a long, detailed talk with her when (if) she's sober to explain to her the implications even if she was declared as a French resident, let alone if she tries to 'escape' by claiming to be a UK resident. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the gendarmes do not take foreigners committing offences here lightly and will not just take her word for it that she's on an extended holiday - they will delve much, much deeper than that. You're doing a sterling job - she's obviously being very economical with the truth with both you and the gendarmes and that isn't fair on anyone.

EuroTrash

If she's not been doing her tax declarations, presumably the property will be on record as a maison secondaire.

Garonne will probably know this, but I imagine that when you appear in court you must have to produce justificatifs of your address? (I'm not implying that you've been on trial yourself, Garonne!) So unless she has a UK address with her name on the bills, that'll be her cover blown.

Either way I don't suppose it will make any difference if there are seriously big fines to pay, they will put a charge against the property no matter what its status.